Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[Kimota]

Forsberg lol

Have you seen him play? One of the Greatest hockey machine I have ever seen. A perfect mix of skills and strenght. The guy was an absoulte beast. Esp. when it counted in the playoffs.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Forsberg lol

he may as well just have said he doesn't like McDavid. I do appreciate them going on the record with these takes though.

I remember watching Hasek play when I was a kid and I told myself he wasnt that good. But I was a teenager back then

Have you seen him play? One of the Greatest hockey machine I have ever seen. A perfect mix of skills and strenght. The guy was an absoulte beast. Esp. when it counted in the playoffs.

Honest question, have you watched Connor McDavid play?

 

[Kimota]

he may as well just have said he doesn't like McDavid. I do appreciate them going on the record with these takes though.

I remember watching Hasek play when I was a kid and I told myself he wasnt that good. But I was a teenager back then


Honest question, have you watched Connor McDavid play?

Yes, I have. But you don't have to cry about it.

 

[MessierII]

Have you seen him play? One of the Greatest hockey machine I have ever seen. A perfect mix of skills and strenght. The guy was an absoulte beast. Esp. when it counted in the playoffs.

I grew up watching him play and can say that is flat out ridiculous. Most overrated player on Hf for some reason. Forsberg wasn’t even the clear cut greatest player on his team at the time. Roy and Sakic both had better careers. Mcdavid could retire today and has already had a better career than forsberg.

 

[Kimota]

I grew up watching him play and can say that is flat out ridiculous. Most overrated player on Hf for some reason. Forsberg wasn’t even the clear cut greatest player on his team at the time. Roy and Sakic both had better careers. Mcdavid could retire today and has already had a better career than forsberg.

There's a good reason Forberg was so admired, cause of how great he was and what he could do on the ice. How strong he was with players hooking him left and right. And the insane goals he was scoring and the important timely goals in playoff overtime. He was fantastic and a real winner.

 

[MessierII]

There's a good reason Forberg was so admired, cause of how great he was and what he could do on the ice. How strong he was with players hooking him left and right. And the insane goals he was scoring and the important timely goals in playoff overtime. He was fantastic and a real winner.

Great player no doubt. Top 10 all time? No chance. Better than McDavid LOL.

 

[Bounces R Way]

All I know for sure is that if the Oilers fail to deliver a SC at least once while he's on their roster it will go down as one of, if not the greatest, failures in professional sport history.

 

[Frank Drebin]

My honest Flames fan reaction:
View attachment 796292


All I know is that if the Oilers fail to deliver a SC at least once while he's on their roster it will go down as one of if not the greatest failures in professional sport history.

Failure of management. Absolutely.

 

[Kimota]

Great player no doubt. Top 10 all time? No chance. Better than McDavid LOL.

Connor is of higher skills but I would take Forsberg without a doubt on my team before McDavid. I have seen him execute during pressure games. The guy became possessed, nothing could break his concentration.

 

[MessierII]

I don’t think anybody is saying that Forsberg was better than McDavid.

The guy I’m responding to literally said exactly that

 

[MessierII]

Connor is of higher skills but I would take Forsberg without a doubt on my team before McDavid. I have seen him execute during pressure games. The guy became possessed, nothing could break his concentration.

This is the same thing people said about Toews vs Crosby when Toews had 3 cups to Sid’s 1. It’s a dumb argument. McDavid has 4th best points per game in the playoffs ever and Forsberg isn’t one of the 3 players ahead of him.

 

[Kimota]

This is the same thing people said about Toews vs Crosby when Toews had 3 cups to Sid’s 1. It’s a dumb argument. McDavid has 4th best points per game in the playoffs ever and Forsberg isn’t one of the 3 players ahead of him.

That's different because Toews while a great player and pretty clutch was not in the category of most skilled. Sid has always been a beast mixing both great skills and great strenght. Look at his legs, it's nuts. Nobody in their right mind should take Toews.

Edit: BUT I am not giving up on Connor. In 3 years, I may probably change my mind.

 

[Hank Plank]

If there was an HF back in the 90s there would be people saying Gretzky isn't the Goat because of reasons. People will find some of these opinions just as comical in a few years.

No they wouldn't. There was 99 and everyone else as he shattered record after record and won 4 Cups. And no I'm forgetting Mario but cancer robbed him and us fans of probably the greatest career in NHL history.

 

[ItWasJustified]

This is the same thing people said about Toews vs Crosby when Toews had 3 cups to Sid’s 1. It’s a dumb argument. McDavid has 4th best points per game in the playoffs ever and Forsberg isn’t one of the 3 players ahead of him.

Forsberg played during the height of the dead puck era and you actually had to look out for opponents head hunting you. If Forsberg played in this era he would be unstoppable.

 

[Video Nasty]

Howe has 6 Art Rosses and 6 Harts. He was in the top 5 in points in the League for TWENTY STRAIGHT YEARS (a record that will never be broken). He was elite defensively and a brute to play against. He has TWICE as many Harts and Cups as Lemieux. I rank him at #2 without much hesitation.

A few points I wanted to touch on here.

1. It’s interesting how people ignore the goals tie breaker in the points race when it comes to this tidbit about Howe being top 5 in points for 20 seasons in a row. Same points and games played for Howe and Henri Richard, but Richard potted 30 goals to 28 for Howe. Splitting hairs perhaps and no less impressive that Howe was top 5 for 10 years in a row, then technically 6th, then top 5 for another 9 years in a row, but no one ever talks about that distinction.

2. Howe played half of the first game of his team’s first Cup winning run. Again, no one ever brings this up when boasting about his four Cups. He also had an underwhelming Crosby-esque 1 goal and 2 assists in a 7 game win over Montreal in 1954, where he was 5th on his team in scoring. Mario missed 6 games during the 1992 win, I bring it up all the time, but he indisputably has two signature Cup winning runs versus one for Howe (1955), who actually has more rings to his name.

3. Two rounds and only 8 wins needed versus four rounds and 16 wins. All Detroit had to do in Howe’s day was beat mediocre Toronto (all four times they won the Cup) and they were headed to the Finals.

4. The obvious one. Gordie Howe wouldn’t be winning as many Harts and Art Rosses with Gretzky overlapping his career. You’re dinging Lemieux because he finished runner up in the Hart race to Gretzky twice and that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Mogo]

Greatest player to never win a cup

 

[Troubadour]

Connor is of higher skills but I would take Forsberg without a doubt on my team before McDavid. I have seen him execute during pressure games. The guy became possessed, nothing could break his concentration.

Forsberg was a great player and known to perform extraordinarily well from Game 1 to Game 4 or 5 in a playoff series. More often than not, when two equally skilled/driven teams locked the horns and the series went the distance, Forsberg's production plummeted in the high pressure phase, i.e. Games 6 & 7. He somewhat improved that resume in 2002, but upon a closer look, he was not as superclutch as a lot of people believe.

 

[Rorschach]

Bourque essentially dragged the Bruins to two finals in three years in the middle of his prime. (Neely played well but he wasn't the straw that stirred the drink). Sure, he lost both times albeit to a dynasty. Hockey is a huge team sports, there's only so much one player can do. So I don't typically agree with "great ones find easy to win" ... you could have a superhuman performance and still lose.

People forget this. His "#1 center" was Craig Janney, who was a bigger joke as a #1 center than Andy McDonald on the 2012 Blues.

Let's not argue if McDavid will be #2 overall of all time. Let's first settle if McDavid is the #2 overall (or better) of just this generation, let alone the last two generations.

 

[DrDangles]

I feel like it's impossible to accomplish what it would take to unseat Mario and Orr from 2-3 in today's league and moving forward.

 

[Video Nasty]

Forsberg was a great player and known to perform extraordinarily well from Game 1 to Game 4 or 5 in a playoff series. More often than not, when two equally skilled/driven teams locked the horns and the series went the distance, Forsberg's production plummeted in the high pressure phase, i.e. Games 6 & 7. He somewhat improved that resume in 2002, but upon a closer look, he was not as superclutch as a lot of people believe.

Seems to check out with a quick scan.

1996: Mixed results throughout. Lots of pointless games in each round, the deeper the series goes.

1997 WCF: Pointless in Games 4-6 against Detroit (all losses).

1998 First Round: Pointless in Games 5-7 against Edmonton (all losses).

1999 WCF: One assist total in Games 6 and 7 against Dallas (both losses).

2000 WCF: Another 7 game series loss against Dallas. 1 goal in Games 6 and 7 (and just 1 goal and 1 assist in Games 3-7).

2001: Pretty good, but 1 assist total in Games 4-6 against Los Angeles. Didn’t play in the WCF or SCF.

2002 WCF: Pretty good, but pointless in Games 6 and 7 against Detroit (both losses).

2003: No complaints in first round loss to Minnesota. Managed 1 goal and 3 assists as they lost Games 5-7.

2004: 1 assist total in Games 3-6 of a first round loss to San Jose.

From 1997-2000, Forsberg had 1 goal and 1 assist for 2 points in 10 high pressure games to close out 4 series. They lost 9 of those games and naturally, all four series.

From 2001-2004, Forsberg had 1 goal and 5 assists for 6 points as the Avs lost 9 of 12 games highlighted.

 

[powerbomb]

Hands down, without question, shout it from the mountain tops, it is undeniably, indisputably INDESCRIBABLY true that when Connor 'Arbuckle' McDavid retires from hockey he will go down as the 2nd best Oilers player of all-time.

Anyone who says otherwise is a ridiculous fool!

 

[5 14 6 1]

Greatest player to never win a cup

Hes 26

 

[HFpapi]

I feel like it's impossible to accomplish what it would take to unseat Mario and Orr from 2-3 in today's league and moving forward.

That's IMO the crux of this entire issue. Some people just think it's not possible just because.

It's just cemented in their head that there's a "big 4" that can't be breached and they won't think any deeper about it than that.

McDavid vs the field for the Art Ross every year assuming no injuries most people take McDavid. You know how insane that level of dominance is and to be that head and shoulders the best in this day and age with this level of competition.

He's possibly going to tie Mario in Art Ross trophies this season at the age of 27. Literally dead smack in the middle of his absolute prime.

Orr's peak is basically impossible to beat (winning the Norris and Art Ross in the same year is insane) but Orr played 656 games. McDavid might have the 4th highest peak of all-time and can play more than twice as many games as Orr.

 

[DrDangles]

That's IMO the crux of this entire issue. Some people just think it's not possible just because.

It's just cemented in their head that there's a "big 4" that can't be breached and they won't think any deeper about it than that.

McDavid vs the field for the Art Ross every year assuming no injuries most people take McDavid. You know how insane that level of dominance is and to be that head and shoulders the best in this day and age with this level of competition.

He's possibly going to tie Mario in Art Ross trophies this season at the age of 27. Literally dead smack in the middle of his absolute prime.

Orr's peak is basically impossible to beat (winning the Norris and Art Ross in the same year is insane) but Orr played 656 games. McDavid might have the 4th highest peak of all-time and can play more than twice as many games as Orr.

But it's not impossible "just because".

For Orr I agree it's hard to compare a guy that basically only played his prime years, but aside from his insane peak it's also important to take into account the change he had on the game and how he reshaped the defensive position. Do guys like Coffey, Karlsson, Makar exist if Orr didn't change the perception of what role a defenseman could play on the ice?

In Lemieux's case you can't just compare raw hardware numbers, because it's the circumstances he won so many of his awards in that make his career so legendary.

I'm not arguing McDavid doesn't have a similar level of generational talent, but at this point what's his legacy? By McDavid's age now Orr was already the defacto greatest defenseman of all time and Mario was winning Rosses, Harts, and Smythes while beating cancer and dealing with crippling back surgeries. There's still time for him to be legendary, but Orr and Mario had basically carved their faces on hockey's Mount Rushmore by 26.

 

[blankall]

Were you amazed when hall was traded for Larsson?

Barzal pick for g. Reinhart?
Lucic contract?
Nurse contract?
Koskinen contract?
Campbell contract?

Stop with the lazy drive by snipes.

They Oilers now have, Hyman, Kane, RNH, and Foegele as top six forwards. Ryan, Janmark, Gagner, in the bottom six.

On defence they have Ekholm, Nurse, and Bouchard.

Are we really making the case that the 2nd greatest player of all time (who supposedly also plays with the second best player in the league right now), can't win because his third line and bottom pairing D aren't good enough?

The second best player of all time should be able to elevate a group like that. Yes teams in the 80s/90s were more stacked, but so was the competition.