Rumor: Columbus interested in Douggie Hamilton

[Jackets16]

Hamilton and Murray are the same age and I think that healthy Murray is a better defenseman. If you offer Hamilton $7+ mil. get ready to pay Murray as much next summer. Not a good idea at all.

I don't know if you're serious or if you know who Dougie Hamilton is.
He's nowhere near Doughty or Shea Weber level. He's still struggling defensively and his smarts are questionable. We've just signed the team captain and NHL top-10 scorer to that $5.5 mil. contract and gave just $4 mil. a year to Ryan Johansen... How would they feel if Jarmo brought a 21 years old guy for 7 mil. a year?

Exactly. It seems some people on here are so desperate that they will convince themselves that just about anyone who plays defense for another team is better than who we have and is worth overpaying for.

 

[punk_o_holic]

I don't know if you're serious or if you know who Dougie Hamilton is.
He's nowhere near Doughty or Shea Weber level. He's still struggling defensively and his smarts are questionable. We've just signed the team captain and NHL top-10 scorer to that $5.5 mil. contract and gave just $4 mil. a year to Ryan Johansen... How would they feel if Jarmo brought a 21 years old guy for 7 mil. a year?

And imagine when he starts figuring things out and improves on those 2 things. He will ask for more money(specifically per year) in his next contract(From $7 to $8/9/10 million) Columbus can't say well only reason you got $7/season was because of it was an offer sheet contract. Hamilton and his camp won't care. If his play gets better then they will ask for more then $7 million/season.

 

[major major]

My plan is for us to continue to do what we have done and if a great player becomes available and we can afford it, great. Sorry, I am not a fan of throwing a bunch of assets and money at guys who are unproven or aren't what we need yet.

1. Can you provide me an example of a young top pair D acquired from another team at a price you like? That would help me understand your thinking on this.

2. I'm not sure what "Do what we have done" means. Jarmo is an active GM, but I have a feeling that's not what you mean. Do you mean stock the cupboards to infinity? All great, but at some point you have to ask the simple question - "Does this give us a better roster?"

Exactly. It seems some people on here are so desperate that they will convince themselves that just about anyone who plays defense for another team is better than who we have and is worth overpaying for.

Thanks for the free psychoanalysis. I'll let my shrink go.

For the record: I don't think Hamilton is currently better than a healthy Murray. But he's got huge upside, and IMO banking on a healthy Murray is just as risky, if not riskier, than banking on a player like Hamilton. Risk all around.

 

[blahblah]

Hey, if you want to overpay like crazy for an unproven player and then pay that player way more than they are worth, go for it.

Since when is a young 42 point D man playing 21 minutes a night in 72 games coming off his break out season "unproven"?

His role has increased every season.

 

[blahblah]

Hamilton and Murray are the same age and I think that healthy Murray is a better defenseman. If you offer Hamilton $7+ mil. get ready to pay Murray as much next summer. Not a good idea at all.

I'm so glad you have something other than your gut feeling to go by.

7 million is obviously too much for Hamilton, at this point. Having said that Murray would have to have a insane year to get anyone to remotely consider the same contract. Even during Murray's "healthy" season his offensive numbers were no where close to any of of Hamilton's seasons. Hamilton has been under a 50 minute prod every season; Murray's best was 62 minutes.

I like Murray a lot; but to compare them at this point is pretty silly. Hamilton is a very good player in his own right and would have every opportunity to be a 1/2 here and his has the ability to succeed in that role at a high level.

 

[stevo61]

7.3mil
1) as pointed out Murray would be looking at that contract
2) im sure Joey and his agent would love seeing Jarmo paying almost double for someone else coming off their ELC
3) Savard was a 36 point 23min D man whos role has increased every year so hes... 6.5mil?

 

[KeithBWhittington]

It would have to be Rychel +, maybe ++. With the amount of money being talked about here, unless they back load it, I don't think it happens. Too many guys on this team already being paid big money for long periods of time.

This is, essentially,the team jarmo is dancing with for a while. Whatever is dealt for Rychel will be a complimentary piece, I doubt it will be a "foundation piece"

 

[Jackets16]

1. Can you provide me an example of a young top pair D acquired from another team at a price you like? That would help me understand your thinking on this.

2. I'm not sure what "Do what we have done" means. Jarmo is an active GM, but I have a feeling that's not what you mean. Do you mean stock the cupboards to infinity? All great, but at some point you have to ask the simple question - "Does this give us a better roster?"



Thanks for the free psychoanalysis. I'll let my shrink go.

For the record: I don't think Hamilton is currently better than a healthy Murray. But he's got huge upside, and IMO banking on a healthy Murray is just as risky, if not riskier, than banking on a player like Hamilton. Risk all around.

1 - No, because I don't care. My thinking is, until we can get a proven defensemen for a good price, I am not intereted. And, no, Hamilton at over 7 million dollars and for a lot of assets is not a good price.

2 - We are doing just fine. There is no need to go crazy and start trading everyone for ONE defnesemen. I apparently think we are a lot better than everyone else here does. Do we need some defenisve help? Yes. Do we need to go crazy to try to fix it? No.


Is Hamilton good? Yes. Could he be really good? Maybe. Is he worth anything close to 7 million dollars? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Would paying him that much be bad for all of our other players who just signed for a lot less and/or are about to get new contracts? YES.

 

[Jackets16]

7.3mil
1) as pointed out Murray would be looking at that contract
2) im sure Joey and his agent would love seeing Jarmo paying almost double for someone else coming off their ELC
3) Savard was a 36 point 23min D man whos role has increased every year so hes... 6.5mil?

 

[Jackets16]

I'm so glad you have something other than your gut feeling to go by.

7 million is obviously too much for Hamilton, at this point. Having said that Murray would have to have a insane year to get anyone to remotely consider the same contract. Even during Murray's "healthy" season his offensive numbers were no where close to any of of Hamilton's seasons. Hamilton has been under a 50 minute prod every season; Murray's best was 62 minutes.

I like Murray a lot; but to compare them at this point is pretty silly. Hamilton is a very good player in his own right and would have every opportunity to be a 1/2 here and his has the ability to succeed in that role at a high level.

You know there is more to defense than how many points you put up.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Hamilton is very overrated. The Jackets weakness is at RW, IMO. Want to really make a splash? Offer sheet RW Vladimir Tarasenko.

 

[EspenK]

Hamilton is very overrated. The Jackets weakness is at RW, IMO. Want to really make a splash? Offer sheet RW Vladimir Tarasenko.

That would definitely take Jarmo & JD off the invite list for the Alumni Golf Outing.

 

[Hello Johnny]

This is, essentially,the team jarmo is dancing with for a while. Whatever is dealt for Rychel will be a complimentary piece, I doubt it will be a "foundation piece"

Exactly. Rychel is a decent-to-good prospect but he's not gonna persuade any team to trade a top defenseman.

With how often we bring his name up, it makes me glad our fan base isn't as massive as Toronto or Montreal. Imagine if we had a larger group of fans on HF: the mains would be flooded with proposals around Rychel + Anisimov for your team's best defenseman, to the point where any value of said players becomes inversely related to how many proposals there are involving them.

Jake Gardiner is actually a good player, but given how many times Leafs fans have tried to trade him for way better players, the narrative becomes "We don't want Gardiner, he's crap! If he was any good you wouldn't be trying to get rid of him so bad" etc, etc.

 

[Fro]

Rychel would be a good chip in a trade with say Pitt (if they had what we needed) a team near the cap that needs wingers on the cheap that have a shot at 15-20g next year...

but Pitt doesn't have a defenseman with #1 upside they can part with in a trade, nor a young RW that fits the mold we need

I'm not sure of any team where it fits these types of solutions...

and this is straying away from "Douggie"

 

[KlichkoBro*]

I'm so glad you have something other than your gut feeling to go by.

7 million is obviously too much for Hamilton, at this point. Having said that Murray would have to have a insane year to get anyone to remotely consider the same contract. Even during Murray's "healthy" season his offensive numbers were no where close to any of of Hamilton's seasons. Hamilton has been under a 50 minute prod every season; Murray's best was 62 minutes.

I like Murray a lot; but to compare them at this point is pretty silly. Hamilton is a very good player in his own right and would have every opportunity to be a 1/2 here and his has the ability to succeed in that role at a high level.

Now we're comparing defensemen value by their points. I'm probably in the wrong place to talk hockey seriously.
Some guy on the Anaheim roster scored 51 points last season and was averaging 21 minutes per game. He was a healthy scratch in the playoffs,you know. Also I remember reading these boards when you wanted to trade Foligno for Callahan because he had better numbers, so you obviously know what "silly" means. But I don't care how someone played for his previous team, I care how good he would be for my team in the future.
Hamilton has not been a top-pairing guy on the Boston team, Chara and Seidenberg were getting the toughest assignments. His game still has a lot of flaws, his plus/minus was the worst on the Bruins. Watch Hamilton playing in his own zone. Honestly, I would rather kept Savard and Johnson as the top pair.
And yes, he is unproven, especially for the amount of money he's asking.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I am really happy you aren't the Columbus GM.

There are a handful of people on this board whose personnel knowledge match that of Viqsi.

She may be totally wrong in this specific case, but that's not the point.

And imagine when he starts figuring things out and improves on those 2 things. He will ask for more money(specifically per year) in his next contract(From $7 to $8/9/10 million) Columbus can't say well only reason you got $7/season was because of it was an offer sheet contract. Hamilton and his camp won't care. If his play gets better then they will ask for more then $7 million/season.

That assumes he does figure things out and improve on them.

I've long been of the opinion that a guy with a weak shot can improve it, a guy with bad skating can improve it, a guy with apoor work ethic can improve it, but a guy who lacks either spatial awareness or the ability to quickly interpret things and make the right decision generally cannot improve that to any real extent.

 

[BluejacketNut]

I'd be happy with Chara for his final years

 

[Viqsi]

Exactly. It seems some people on here are so desperate that they will convince themselves that just about anyone who plays defense for another team is better than who we have and is worth overpaying for.

Or some of us recognize that it takes more than one or two top-quality defensemen to have a good blueline corps. And that the only way to get a guy at a good price is to take a risk on hoping they improve. And that an actual top-pairing D will generally not be traded. And that "offensive defenseman" and "defensive defenseman" are not necessarily mutually exclusive conditions.

Seriously, I'm getting kind of tired of it. You've reacted with hostility and dismissal to any and all of the following possible acquisitions at seemingly any price:

• Jared Spurgeon
• Ryan Ellis
• Seth Jones
• Eric Gelinas
• John Merrill
• Dustin Byfuglien
• Alex Edler
• bringing back James Wisniewski
• Dion Phaneuf
• Roman Polak
• Stuart Percy
• Jake Gardiner
• Noah Hanifin (moving up to get him, anyways)
• Sami Vatanen (and he wasn't even available; that was one Ducks fan with a persistent agenda)
• and now, Dougie Hamilton

...as well as some marginal "might be useful, maybe" types like Hamhuis, Gilbert, Bieksa, anyone on the Flyers roster, et cetera. And I've probably missed a few.

If you're holding out for Prime Established Chris Pronger 2.0 For Our 1st, you'll be perpetually disappointed.

* * *​

There are a handful of people on this board whose personnel knowledge match that of Viqsi.

She may be totally wrong in this specific case, but that's not the point.

I guess reasonable people can disagree on that particular risk. I do not disagree that it's overpayment; I just think in his case it's worth the risk.

 

[major major]

1 - No, because I don't care. My thinking is, until we can get a proven defensemen for a good price, I am not intereted. And, no, Hamilton at over 7 million dollars and for a lot of assets is not a good price.

I agree Hamilton is a project. But you couldn't be bothered to name one acquisition of a top pair D-man you actually liked. Not one in the whole league.

If you did, you'd find that they're either unproven (like Leddy) or the acquiring team is a paying an ungodly ridiculous price. Can anyone think of an exception?

 

[major major]

Hamilton is very overrated. The Jackets weakness is at RW, IMO. Want to really make a splash? Offer sheet RW Vladimir Tarasenko.

That's ridiculous. Look at the rosters of the Stanley Cup champs in the last 5 years. Find one with a top D pair as bad as ours. Our top D pair would be the bottom pair for the Hawks, the Rangers, the Preds, and maybe the Lightning.

As for scoring, we could be top 5 in the league. We have a top 10 scorer who can play any forward position, and lots of other guys are flexible wing to wing. Look at the Stanley cup champs in the last 5 years and we actually can outmatch some of their offenses.

 

[Viqsi]

That's ridiculous. Look at the rosters of the Stanley Cup champs in the last 5 years. Find one with a top D pair as bad as ours. Our top D pair would be the bottom pair for the Hawks, the Rangers, the Preds, and maybe the Lightning.

I wouldn't characterize it as quite that bad (Murray's one hell of a player), but it sure as hell needs improvement.

 

[major major]

Now we're comparing defensemen value by their points. I'm probably in the wrong place to talk hockey seriously.
Some guy on the Anaheim roster scored 51 points last season and was averaging 21 minutes per game. He was a healthy scratch in the playoffs,you know. Also I remember reading these boards when you wanted to trade Foligno for Callahan because he had better numbers, so you obviously know what "silly" means. But I don't care how someone played for his previous team, I care how good he would be for my team in the future.
Hamilton has not been a top-pairing guy on the Boston team, Chara and Seidenberg were getting the toughest assignments. His game still has a lot of flaws, his plus/minus was the worst on the Bruins. Watch Hamilton playing in his own zone. Honestly, I would rather kept Savard and Johnson as the top pair.
And yes, he is unproven, especially for the amount of money he's asking.

I agree healthy Murray (if he exists) is better than Hamilton at this point.

But a minor correction - Hamilton was sheltered at the start of the year but the Bruins really threw him to the wolves for big stretches. Seidenberg fell to pieces and Chara was injured. Hamilton had to do everything, and it's no surprise he was sketchy - he's 21!

 

[major major]

I wouldn't characterize it as quite that bad (Murray's one hell of a player), but it sure as hell needs improvement.

I'll wait for Murray to play 70+ games as a top D (which unfortunately, he might never do) before I anoint him. I was looking at JJ-Savard.

 

[Jackets16]

I agree Hamilton is a project. But you couldn't be bothered to name one acquisition of a top pair D-man you actually liked. Not one in the whole league.

If you did, you'd find that they're either unproven (like Leddy) or the acquiring team is a paying an ungodly ridiculous price. Can anyone think of an exception?

No, I couldnt, because I couldn't give a you know what. If you want to name, go ahead. You are the one who cares.

 

[KlichkoBro*]

I agree healthy Murray (if he exists) is better than Hamilton at this point.

But a minor correction - Hamilton was sheltered at the start of the year but the Bruins really threw him to the wolves for big stretches. Seidenberg fell to pieces and Chara was injured. Hamilton had to do everything, and it's no surprise he was sketchy - he's 21!

Seidenberg hasn't missed a game and averaged more ice-time than Hamilton. That should ring the bell when a player who fell to pieces is trusted more than a guy who you wanna use as your 1st pairing option.
Mayor Bee made a good point that

a guy who lacks either spatial awareness or the ability to quickly interpret things and make the right decision generally cannot improve that to any real extent.

Look at John Moore, I remember when some people were expecting him to be a top-pairing guy one day, now he rots in Arizona.