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Collapse of the PAC-12: Oregon State & Washington State left in the dust

Big Z Man 1990

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Don't say anything at all
Also, I'm also projecting Gonzaga and Saint Mary's leave the WCC for a new conference also including the Midwestern schools in the Big East and A-10, plus Detroit Mercy of the Horizon and Valparaiso of the MVC.

This would make the WCC less attractive since it would strip them of their last two strong men's basketball programs.
 
PCSPounder

PCSPounder

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The Pac doesn’t want Hawaii.

If this means the coming contract is under $10M per school, then they won’t want to pay for that much travel, even just for football.

Initially, I’m stunned Gonzaga would get a football share without football. But for the conference to make a statement, that might be a smart move. And it might be Gonzaga and just two schools with football now. Then you let the dust settle and see who steps up.
 
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KevFu

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Huge day for common sense.

Apparently, a number of reporters are backtracking on the Gonzaga to the Pac-12 thing.

It SOUNDS like the Pac-12 was hoping to announce the AAC four (Memphis, Tulane, UTSA and South Florida) and Gonzaga today. But the AAC four got together as a group and made the smart decision to stay put; and that made the Gonzaga thing be happening at this moment.

Air Force announced they are staying in the MWC. Another smart move. Air Force doesn't need to play TV money games, they just don't have the same agenda as everyone else.

The Rest of the MWC has been making announcements of their commitment to the MWC, which is going to do a Grant of Rights and stay together. UNLV and San Jose State have made their statements.


Probably some parties starting in El Paso and Las Cruces over this news.
 
GKJ

GKJ

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BKarchitect said:
I feel like the new PAC-12 is essentially just going to be the western version of the AAC, now that the top AAC teams are staying put.
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They are.

The ESPN article also says that Air Force is probably staying in the MWC.

Definitely advantageous for New Mexico State and UTEP.
 
GindyDraws

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GKJ

GKJ

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How is taking all the Mountain West teams supposed to make them better than the Mountain West?
 
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Big McLargehuge

Big McLargehuge

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GKJ said:
How is taking all the Mountain West teams supposed to make them better than the Mountain West?
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Well, Washington State and Oregon State would be the best programs in it most likely...but yeah, the play was clearly to be a best of the G5 conferences and that required ditching the lesser MWC schools for the better AAC schools. That failed, so now it's basically going to be a war for the west. There needs to be multiple conferences in the west for practical purposes, damn it.

Not sure how Utah State moves the needle even slightly for the Pac, but they need more schools to reach that minimum and there's been less interest than Pac leadership was hoping for. Still, you're talking about the third most popular program in Utah that plays in a stadium slightly smaller than Montana's and rarely sells out. Utah played at Utah State 10 days ago and attendance was 24,107. Montana's attendance that same week against Morehead State, a far-flung Pioneer League program (the other D1 conference that doesn't allow athletic scholarhsips), was 25,808. Hell, an above capacity crowd (~21.5k) watched Montana State manhandle a Mercyhurst team that is transitioning to the FCS last week and that stadium is easily expandable.


This is a really obnoxious situation to watch unfold as a fan of an FCS program that would walk right in and compete in either of these conferences, but won't get an invite because some braindead executive can't pretend that we'd bring the entire Las Vegas or Sacramento media market with us. It's just so disheartening that program movement is so completely disconnected from program tradition, results, or the existence of actual fans.
 
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GKJ

GKJ

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Big McLargehuge said:
Well, Washington State and Oregon State would be the best programs in it most likely...but yeah, the play was clearly to be a best of the G5 conferences and that required ditching the lesser MWC schools for the better AAC schools. That failed, so now it's basically going to be a war for the west.

Not sure how Utah State moves the needle even slightly for the Pac, but they need more schools and there's been less interest than Pac leadership was hoping for.


This is a really obnoxious situation to watch unfold as a fan of an FCS program that would walk right in and compete in either of these conferences, but won't get an invite because they can't pretend that we'd bring the entire Sacramento media market with us.
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Without AAC programs, it's basically just getting to the number now. It didn't make sense for any of them to change their geography without knowing what the money coming in would be, and it's a huge risk to assume that right now since the biggest reason this happened was because they couldn't do that. If they don't get the Nevada schools, I'm wondering if they're the ones who might look at taking on FCS schools looking to move up, thinking they can get a bigger payout
 
Big McLargehuge

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GKJ said:
Without AAC programs, it's basically just getting to the number now. It didn't make sense for any of them to change their geography without knowing what the money coming in would be, and it's a huge risk to assume that right now since the biggest reason this happened was because they couldn't do that. If they don't get the Nevada schools, I'm wondering if they're the ones who might look at taking on FCS schools looking to move up, thinking they can get a bigger payout
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As much as I hate to say it - the Montana schools won't be attractive for a media contract even if they have the best ratings in a conference. Those TV execs are too in-love with market size and the conference heads don't want to share the purse with schools that'll likely beat them. If you're a cupcake in a major media market, you're pretty well set with all of this realignment. Still...that entire state shuts down when the Griz or Cats play and they'd walk right in and be smack dab in the middle of the FBS in attendance today. Colorado State only averaged 240 more fans than Montana last year. Montana outdrew programs like San Diego State, Utah State, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Duke, UNLV, Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Rice, Texas State, etc., etc..

There are reasons that Montana would make sense for this new Pac-whatever, especially if Utah State is the tier of program now in it, but I just can't imagine them going directly to FCS programs to fill the conference out. I think the belief is that any lower-level FBS school is better than any FCS program just by virtue of being more known. That adding FCS programs to meet minimums would be pure desperation, rather than fairly logical. I have more hope that the Mountain West would do so out of sheer necessity than desire, but they've never directly added a program in transition before and would have to convince existing members to accept programs that'll likely jump them rather quickly. I think they'd rather skim Texas for fourth-tier programs just to have a Texan presence than go for the best programs left within the conference footprint.

Montana has had at least one invitation to the MWC before, but it is absolutely a package deal with Montana State and that was an issue 10-15 years ago. I mean there's no good reason for North Dakota State to still be an FCS program after winning damn near everything for a decade other than NDSU likely dominating a lesser conference without meaningfully expanding that conference's TV footprint and no P4 conference is going to add a FCS team outright. All that success has basically just made it more difficult for NDSU to fill out their non-conference schedule. Hell, Montana's last game against an FBS foe was a win @ Washington a few years ago. These are programs that have long outgrown the FCS, but are seemingly unwanted by any conference in the FBS.
 
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GKJ

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Big McLargehuge said:
As much as I hate to say it - the Montana schools won't be attractive for a media contract even if they have the best ratings in a conference. Those TV execs are too in-love with market size and the conference heads don't want to share the purse with schools that'll likely beat them. If you're a cupcake in a major media market, you're pretty well set with all of this realignment. Still...that entire state shuts down when the Griz or Cats play and they'd walk right in and be smack dab in the middle of the FBS in attendance today. Colorado State only averaged 240 more fans than Montana last year. Montana outdrew programs like San Diego State, Utah State, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Duke, UNLV, Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Rice, Texas State, etc., etc..

There are reasons that Montana would make sense for this new Pac-whatever, especially if Utah State is the tier of program now in it, but I just can't imagine them going directly to FCS programs to fill the conference out. I think the belief is that any lower-level FBS school is better than any FCS program just by virtue of being more known. That adding FCS programs to meet minimums would be pure desperation, rather than fairly logical. I have more hope that the Mountain West would do so out of sheer necessity than desire, but they've never directly added a program in transition before and would have to convince existing members to accept programs that'll likely jump them rather quickly. I think they'd rather skim Texas for fourth-tier programs just to have a Texan presence than go for the best programs left within the conference footprint.

Montana has had at least one invitation to the MWC before, but it is absolutely a package deal with Montana State and that was an issue 10-15 years ago. I mean there's no good reason for North Dakota State to still be an FCS program after winning damn near everything for a decade other than NDSU likely dominating a lesser conference without meaningfully expanding that conference's TV footprint and no P4 conference is going to add a FCS team outright. All that success has basically just made it more difficult for NDSU to fill out their non-conference schedule. Hell, Montana's last game against an FBS foe was a win @ Washington a few years ago. These are programs that have long outgrown the FCS, but are seemingly unwanted by any conference in the FBS.
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I really don't think *anyone* is that attractive strictly in terms of market size when you're going down to this point and you're below the top G5 programs. ESPN shows those weeknight MAC games just to fill time. Most of these schools are going to be streaming. It should be worth it for these transition schools to just be reliably competitive programs. Utah State isn't going to register Logan, Utah as a hot TV market. They would be more interested in San Jose State if it were, I think.

And the schools that are going, assuming it were to happen, it actually seems to make more geographic sense if the Montana schools went to the Pac-X than MWC. 4 schools closer than any current MWC team (fluid obviously), and they avoid long trips to Hawaii and New Mexico.
 
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Big McLargehuge

Big McLargehuge

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A PCC reunion is very much atop my wish list. I'm just as hopeful of that happening as I am Idaho being invited along.
480c12_74784a0aab4f4a7faaee37f3b1a7e9bf~mv2.jpeg


The way so much upheaval happens as the result of a couple decisions is utterly absurd, but it's nothing new.
 
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LadyStanley

LadyStanley

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sports.yahoo.com

Pac-12 files lawsuit against MWC over pricy 'poaching penalty'

The battle between the Mountain West and the Pac-12 is now moving into the courthouse.
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com

Pac12 sues Mountain West over poaching penalty

Edit
The Pac-12 filed a legal complaint on Tuesday over millions of dollars in penalties that the Mountain West believes it is owed for the acquisition of five MWC schools, describing the penalties as unlawful, unenforceable and a violation of antitrust law.

The league made the filing Tuesday morning in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, seeking declaratory relief from a judge.
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:popcorn:
 
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