That's still a good number of games with points, and a good number of primary points. It's a lot of primary assists. Still more than you would expect.
Player Discussion: Cole Sillinger thread
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That's still a good number of games with points, and a good number of primary points. It's a lot of primary assists. Still more than you would expect.
Cowumbus
Registered User
Yeah, but I’m referencing consistency.
He’s top 3 in ice time for forwards (due to injuries), not surprising. His ice time the last few games has been trending down though.
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I don’t care much about his scoring when 5v5 he’s one of worst in CF%, Fenwick %, Goals %. I don’t understand how he can’t score. He has a hard shot. What gives?
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koteka
Registered User
One thing about empty net scoring is it shows the team trusts playing you at the end of a tight game. How many empty net goals did Sonny Milano have?
Cowumbus
Registered User
No offense, but this narrative is always being pushed by HFers and it’s largely BS/misconstrued. People were saying this about Kuraly the last few years too. In reality, Sillinger most likely is getting that ice time (on the wing, he hasn’t taken a faceoff) solely for the fact he can take faceoffs if someone gets kicked out. Same with Danforth, who has the exact same amount of TOI against an EN with 2 points as well. Jenner is hurt, so he’s the next guy up after Monahan. I mean Roslovic had more empty net TOI than Cole at the end of games. He should never be trusted.
This is the same Cole Sillinger that turned the puck over for the OT loss vs the Caps, and turned it over tonight at the blue line for a SH goal against. I don’t see anything that makes me trust him more as a defender than any of Chinakhov/KJ/Olivier and the like.
0, but he did get TOI vs empty nets.
Laine has 19 empty net points #trust
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I'm also referencing consistency. Points in 14 games is actually not bad. There are a lot of middle six forwards around the league who have more concentrated scoring than that, with more pointless games.
That's the main thing for me, if a guy is getting outscored and consistently giving up possession to the other club, then we have a problem.
I am eager to see where Cole ends up. I'm not ruling out that he may eventually play a vital role on a shutdown or scoring line, but I don't think he is particularly close to being either of those players right now. Good shutdown players don't get buried like he is getting right now, and he doesn't have the solid passing game of a guy I want on a scoring line, though there have been more nice passes lately.
Cowumbus
Registered User
I’m talking in respect to CBJWeresnki post. Seems like his best (or highest scoring games) are overshadowed by others sticking out in high scoring games. If you score in a greater quantity of games (ex. Chinakhov 12 in 21) you are more likely to stick out / be player of the game. 1-0 game where you score as an example. FTR, I think he’s a middle sixer if that isn’t clear.
I still don’t get how he can’t score though.
"Could be third liner" seems rather obvious to me, but you talk to Porty about our future and he always brings up Sillinger as a key guy, and never remembers to mention Voronkov. I think that is backwards. But then again I also wonder if internally the team thinks there's more there with Cole than there is. The focus on Sillinger seems to permeate through the broadcast.
Sillinger has always screamed high end 3rd line center to me. He embraces physical aspects of the game. I think in 5 years, he'll be among the most coveted 3rd liners in the NHL.
I just hope the Jackets don't get impatient or angsty about his lack of production.
I just hope the Jackets don't get impatient or angsty about his lack of production.
koteka
Registered User
At the same stage of his career that Sillinger is now, Voronkov was in his second 7 goal season in a row in the KHL. He took a big step the following season when he jumped to 18 goals. The year of Voronkov greatest progression is a year Sillinger hasn’t lived yet.
Yes and I don't take those big steps for granted. The progress that Voronkov has shown over the last few years is beyond what would be expected.
koteka
Registered User
I don’t either, but I also see plenty of room for growth and development for Sillinger. The Jackets probably do too. You and I both may have problems with it, but they made a choice on how to develop him. Now Porty probably talks to Nash who probably has had input on Sillinger’s development. So I am not at all surprised that Porty brings up Sillinger and not Voronkov when talking about the future. Note that I think Porty is a moron so I could easily give you the “because Porty is a moron answer” but I don’t that is the case here.
cbjthrowaway
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2020
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more key words:
is currently playing
2nd line minutes
and scoring at a 53-point pace
i don't know what cole sillinger's ultimate role is going to be, but there's definitely enough meat left on the bone when it comes to his development, and he's already (based on production + ice time) surpassing this year the supposed end state that many see for him.
the way we talk about a "third line" outcome is too abstract anyway. if the way we define that is a player who plays a third line role and handily wins their minutes, it could be argued that they're actually an underutilized second line player. there are too many other variables (team composition, fit in system/roster, ultimate role).
based on his tools he seems like a guy who is going to play a ton of games but also move around a ton. i don't know what his long-term role would really be here. there's still a lot of developmental runway but he seems like a future plug-and-play, jack-of-all-trades kind of guy.
seems like a perfect trade chip for the team this summer if they want to get someone more dynamic, but it also seems like the staff/org loves the kid as a middle-six guy long-term who can be a leader in the room.
at the end of the day he's a really odd player and is a bit of a developmental black box despite already having over 250 games played and being on pace to put up second-line numbers.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Not to mention we generally are using what line a player profiles as using understandings that are at least 20 years out of date.
cbjthrowaway
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2020
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didn't get a point last night but sillinger's hard work led to two goals (provorov's and the ENG). bet evason likes to see that.
The play on the ENG was awesome. I feel like past Sillinger would’ve gotten f***ing walked there too, against one of the best skaters in the league. I’m very happy with his play this year.
It’s really not about how many points he is or isn’t getting. I distinctly remember a shift where Sillinger failed to clear the zone after getting the puck 3 times, then almost took a hooking penalty. He’s not a good passer or a good shooter.
He’s in the same tier as Kuraly/Lebanc/JVR as a skater. He reads the game terribly. His “potential” or “ceiling” issues or limitations should be looked at very similar to Jiricek.
Do people think he’s better than Chinakhov because of the points??
He’s been getting a ridiculous amount of icetime and playing in roles he shouldn’t be playing in. He’s not a player that excels against good opposing players or good teams. He plays with an edge, that’s about the only true positive he brings to the ice. Throwing a parade for the neutral zone play and going near the crease on the Provorov goal are ridiculous. IMO.
Continue on. The love for this dude is unwarranted, though. Unless he makes significant changes to the way he thinks the game, and even MORE significant changes in his overall ability as a skater.
He’s in the same tier as Kuraly/Lebanc/JVR as a skater. He reads the game terribly. His “potential” or “ceiling” issues or limitations should be looked at very similar to Jiricek.
Do people think he’s better than Chinakhov because of the points??
He’s been getting a ridiculous amount of icetime and playing in roles he shouldn’t be playing in. He’s not a player that excels against good opposing players or good teams. He plays with an edge, that’s about the only true positive he brings to the ice. Throwing a parade for the neutral zone play and going near the crease on the Provorov goal are ridiculous. IMO.
Continue on. The love for this dude is unwarranted, though. Unless he makes significant changes to the way he thinks the game, and even MORE significant changes in his overall ability as a skater.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Where the bleeding f*** did this come from? Folks are saying they like him. Nobody is doing a comparison between him and Chinakhov except you. They're different players that contribute in different ways.
There are a lot of signs of regression there though. He's not some playmaking maestro, his pass quality is actually often a problem. So those assist totals will come down. We're still getting only 40% xGF with Cole on the ice. It's not good. We're also only getting 40% of the goals. On a lot of clubs that will get your ice time cut, he's fortunate to have a free pass here.
I agree with you that if he is a regular 50 pt scorer that that is more of a 2C than a 3C number, but I don't see the signs yet of that being a sustainable number for him.
koteka
Registered User
So is thise a criticism of management or a criticism of Sillinger? Let’s discuss the real problem. Is this Rick Nash’s input? You know, the Director of Hockey Operations who played with Mike Sillinger. I would have followed a different path with his development, but we all know Jarmo was in win now mode and desperate for a guy who could play center. So Jarmo definitely gets blame. But he is gone. Who is the guy causing what you two see is a huge overuse or misuse of Sillinger currently? Seriously, if you want to fix a problem you first need to identify what the real problem is.
Some are saying the points mean everything.
What I’m saying is him having a comparable amount of points to Chinakhov means nothing, or everything, depending how you want to look at it.
People are free to list the players they think Sillinger is better than. It shouldn’t be a long list. And the players on their should be 4th liners and healthy scratches. True or false?
