Player Discussion: Cole Sillinger thread

[majormajor]

forwards, famously, are the position best known for preventing goals in 4v5 situations.

From my playing experience I was pretty happy to be a PK D-man. You don't have to cover that much ice so it's easy to take a step and adjust your position. Forward PKers have a harder job, they've got to race out to the points and the half wall and all the while make sure to keep the cross ice seam closed. When the PK really falls apart and gets picked apart with seam passes, it's usually because the forwards can't sync up with each other.

But hey, maybe you're right and it doesn't matter who is out there on the forward PK.

 

[stevo61]

Im sure oir PK would be no better with someone like Brad Marchand in the forward position instead of Sillinger. Really you could just throw anyone out there I guess. 4 defensemen would be a cheat code

 

[majormajor]

Im sure oir PK would be no better with someone like Brad Marchand in the forward position instead of Sillinger. Really you could just throw anyone out there I guess. 4 defensemen would be a cheat code

I'm honestly not sure if you're joking or not.

I don't have well developed thoughts about the qualities of PKers, but I generally think the personnel has to matter to some degree.

 

[stevo61]

I'm honestly not sure if you're joking or not.

I don't have well developed thoughts about the qualities of PKers, but I generally think the personnel has to matter to some degree.

Im joking, as I thought would be obvious by putting a guy Id consider an elite PKer throughout his career in the post. Just seems wild to me to act like forward arent a major part of a penalty kill

 

[CBJx614]

 

[NotWendell]

It's refreshing to see someone here actually bounce back from their sophomore slump.

 

[NORiculous]

40 pts and 100+ hits this year?

It seems he has been in the league so long but is still only 21!

 

[S1N4TR4]

19 assists 32 points in 77 games this season.

let’s hypothetically say he plays 77 games this season… he’s currently on pace for:

41 assists, 53 points.

I don’t think we’re talking enough about the growth cole has taken this year.

he’s also sitting at over a 47 percent faceoff percentage which is absolutely a career high.

 

[alphafox]

40 pts and 100+ hits this year?

It seems he has been in the league so long but is still only 21!

Wildly underrated point. I have seesawed on Sillinger based on the epic Sophmore slump and the organizations terrible track record of bringing up talent. At this point I still think his ceiling is lower than I had initially hoped when we drafted him as I thought he had a plus shot and would be more of a sniper in the half ice, instead I now think of him more as a Jordan Staal role if everything works out. A terribly over qualified 3rd pair guy that is a nightmare for other teams depth to have to deal with. That play style also requires a alot of strength development and I think with Sillinger being so young it's really hurt how he has been able to play, but on the bright side I think he still has quite a bit of room to grow just from physical development and gym time.

 

[Xoggz22]

I think he'll always be a polarizing player for this crowd. For some he has a higher ceiling, for others he's no better than a replacement player. And I don't think either side is changing their tune so we'll just enjoy the show.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I think he'll always be a polarizing player for this crowd. For some he has a higher ceiling, for others he's no better than a replacement player. And I don't think either side is changing their tune so we'll just enjoy the show.

the image of him struggling in his second year has been seared into some folks' consciousness and warped their perception of the player.

there are four main things i keep coming back to with sillinger:

1. the production this year is really good (scoring at a 57-point pace with zero power play points)
2. the coaching staff clearly trusts him and is feeding him minutes in key situations – he's only playing about a minute less per night than sean monahan (!!)
3. he's still one of the youngest forwards in the entire league
4. two crucial elements of his game that held him back (skating + playmaking) have significantly improved this year

i don't think there's much of an argument against cole's long-term projection as a top-six forward given that, based on production/usage, he essentially already is one. that's not to say that he should be seen as an untouchable core piece – i think his long-term fit here is probably a bigger question than his long-term projection.

 

[VT]

I think it would be ideal if he was a Jordan Staal/Yanni Gourde type (I'm not comparing styles in his case). Reliable third line center, two-way player, physical player who has offensive instincts.

 

[MoeBartoli]

I think it would be ideal if he was a Jordan Staal/Yanni Gourde type (I'm not comparing styles in his case). Reliable third line center, two-way player, physical player who has offensive instincts.

That’s how I see Cole adding I see him having top quartile 3C potential. He’s played pretty well this year - has been out second best center showing me more upside that I’d have pegged before the season began though I realize his limitations too.

 

[VT]

That’s how I see Cole adding I see him having top quartile 3C potential. He’s played pretty well this year - has been out second best center showing me more upside that I’d have pegged before the season began though I realize his limitations too.

For the future we have Monahan and Fantilli, then Lindstrom. We can use Voronkov if we want to convert Adam to a winger. But such 3rd line centers are very much needed. Don't forget that Jenner used to be injured and his age isn't helping.

 

[Xoggz22]

For the future we have Monahan and Fantilli, then Lindstrom. We can use Voronkov if we want to convert Adam to a winger. But such 3rd line centers are very much needed. Don't forget that Jenner used to be injured and his age isn't helping.

I think it's going to be another 3-4 years before Lindstrom plays center very high in an NHL lineup at that point I think Monahan would be on the move. I don't like to presume what 3-4 years down the road look like but it could very well be that Fantilli ends up as a wing and Voronkov moves into a center role. Personally, I would love to see Fantilli and Lindstrom hit their ceiling or just be the top 6 centers we drafted them to be. I would absolutely drool over some combination of Fantilli, Lindstrom and Sillinger as the top 3 centers on this team. It's truly unlikely but man if they hit... that would be killer.

 

[majormajor]

I think he'll always be a polarizing player for this crowd. For some he has a higher ceiling, for others he's no better than a replacement player. And I don't think either side is changing their tune so we'll just enjoy the show.

That's not accurate. As the one who described his play last year as "replacement level", I made it pretty clear that that was describing the level he was at. I've always been open to upgrading my assessment of Cole as he improves. And I think most people here are fine doing that.

the image of him struggling in his second year has been seared into some folks' consciousness and warped their perception of the player.

there are four main things i keep coming back to with sillinger:

1. the production this year is really good (scoring at a 57-point pace with zero power play points)
2. the coaching staff clearly trusts him and is feeding him minutes in key situations – he's only playing about a minute less per night than sean monahan (!!)
3. he's still one of the youngest forwards in the entire league
4. two crucial elements of his game that held him back (skating + playmaking) have significantly improved this year

The improvements in the skating is the big thing, that's why I've become more optimistic with him, and not because of the point totals. I'm not persuaded that he's definitely going to be a big assist guy. The passing is very volatile game to game.

i don't think there's much of an argument against cole's long-term projection as a top-six forward given that, based on production/usage, he essentially already is one. that's not to say that he should be seen as an untouchable core piece – i think his long-term fit here is probably a bigger question than his long-term projection.

Long term projections based on short samples of points, as you know, do not close the book on what a players projection is. No, we can't be sure that he's a top six guy. I'm sure you remember Alex Wennberg setting his career highs in his third season. In Sillinger's case, I think the assist totals might be a bit misleading. He's still at 41% xGF and it's rare to drive a lot of scoring that way.

I think it would be ideal if he was a Jordan Staal/Yanni Gourde type (I'm not comparing styles in his case). Reliable third line center, two-way player, physical player who has offensive instincts.

Those guys were possession monsters, so far Cole is the opposite.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

The improvements in the skating is the big thing, that's why I've become more optimistic with him, and not because of the point totals. I'm not persuaded that he's definitely going to be a big assist guy. The passing is very volatile game to game.

there's enough give-and-take in his statistical profile for me to think that the production (50-60 point range) is sustainable, and young enough (21) for me to think he has runway to keep improving.

• assist-heavy profile, BUT
  • far more primary (10) than secondary (4)
  • isn't riding the coattails of guys who produce a lot (has spent a lot of time with fantilli, pyyhtia and olivier this year)
• small sample size, BUT
  • it isn't getting lifted by power play production
  • his shooting percentage is really low (6.3%) and should be higher by the end of the season

Long term projections based on short samples of points, as you know, do not close the book on what a players projection is. No, we can't be sure that he's a top six guy. I'm sure you remember Alex Wennberg setting his career highs in his third season. In Sillinger's case, I think the assist totals might be a bit misleading. He's still at 41% xGF and it's rare to drive a lot of scoring that way.

wennberg is a fascinating (and extremely odd) player at the statistical level.

he was deployed as a first line player in that breakout season, but his ATOI that season (18:23) is right around what it's been since he left columbus (18:14). he's gotten top six ice time with bottom six production for a long time.

the elephant in the room here, though, is that the trajectory of wennberg's career clearly changed after he took a dirty hit to the head from tom wilson. can't just paint a picture of wennberg's career with broad strokes and leave that part out.

Those guys were possession monsters, so far Cole is the opposite.

sure, but also worth noting that one of those guys (yanni gourde) didn't become a full-time NHL player until 26 (five years older than sillinger is right now!) and did so on a stacked tampa team that was setting regular-season records.

outside of the 22-23 season, where seattle was a really good team, his profile hasn't been nearly as good since leaving the bolts.