Player Discussion: Cole Perfetti 10th OA pick

[wraithsonwings]

he decided to delay signing in order to try and squeeze more money out the Jets

Source?

 

[Gm0ney]

It's the way it works around here with favorites

Cole can do nonwrong with some posters, while the same guys pin the JFK assassination on Stanley

That said, i think that there are also some folks being overly critical of Cole - probably at least partially as an unintended consequence of his vocal backers on here

No one is saying "Cole can do no wrong".

I think the two camps here are "Cole's not getting it done (and this implies he probably never will)" and "Cole's fine/will be fine (and you're overreacting)."

 

[Buffdog]

No one is saying "Cole can do no wrong".

I think the two camps here are "Cole's not getting it done (and this implies he probably never will)" and "Cole's fine/will be fine (and you're overreacting)."

Funny, I happen to find myself with a foot in both camps

I DO think that he can be contributing more, and i also think that his production isn't out of line with what's to be expected and I also think that it will improve as he gains more experience

 

[Finster8]

Even if true when you go for a raise do you not try and get the most money? If you don’t then your not to smart.
Negotiations about his contract is his agents job and might have to earn his paycheck by getting the best deal for his client or he’d be out of a job.
Truly whatever side of the fence you’re on I think we all would like to see him put up better numbers and get his game in top shape.
If he shits the bed the rest of the year hurts the team a different story. lm hoping he can make the 2nd half a more offensively aggressive part of his season I think we all want to see him improve after all it just helps the team and that is our concern

 

[Gm0ney]

So reading through the pages of Perfetti's play this year:
-apparently he's playing 4th line minutes
-his stats on pp1 this season do not count, but last year's do
-a call for more offense this year apparently means ppl want to trade him (don't think anyone has said this), writing him off completely for years to come.

Let me guess, this is all Rick Bowness' fault too?

I think it's warranted that the supposed highest upside offensive player, outside of ehlers, in the middle 6 should be producing much more.

How much flack from the Perfetti groupies would a poster receive if they predicted Perfetti would be in the same realm of offensive production as Namestnikov or the defense-first Lowry line? Or get all these ridiculous reaches of player comparables thrown at them?

Ofc there's half a season left so he can definitely turn it up, but to date he's been underwhelming.

Perfetti is playing below the median TOI for a 2nd line forward at 5v5 (bottom 20 out of 96 in TOI/GP).

And I think it's reasonable to argue that this year's top powerplay unit is being used in a way that Perfetti doesn't make a good plug-and-play fit for Ehlers' role. But one poster's reasonable argument is another's excuse-making nonsense I guess...

 

[Jets 31]

Wilson has 18, as well. Guess who those 2 are playing with?

I know who, Protas plays alot with Strome and Ovi but not on the number 1 PP

 

[DRW204]

No one is saying "Cole can do no wrong".

I think the two camps here are "Cole's not getting it done (and this implies he probably never will)" and "Cole's fine/will be fine (and you're overreacting)."

Lol How are people implying he will never get it done? He's underwhelmed the last two seasons doesn't mean it'll happen forever. Just like Connor-scheifele this year vs years previous, no, doesn't guarantee it at all.

Perfetti is playing below the median TOI for a 2nd line forward at 5v5 (bottom 20 out of 96 in TOI/GP).

And I think it's reasonable to argue that this year's top powerplay unit is being used in a way that Perfetti doesn't make a good plug-and-play fit for Ehlers' role. But one poster's reasonable argument is another's excuse-making nonsense I guess...

So is that fourth line minutes? Is he playing with Kupari and Barron? Yes or no.

Where does he rank in pts/60 at 5v5? Is that ranking where you expected him?

The OP was he doesn't get pp1 minutes. He got it this year and didn't produce and the retort was well he produced last year... Who gives a shit. The original questions was on this year.

 

[gojetsgo]

don't really understand the argument that by saying perfetti needs to produce more means he will never get it done, If I didn't think he was capable of getting it done I wouldn't be posting that he needs to produce more, like take names for example, I don't think he is capable of more offense which is why I've been wanting an upgrade at 2c for a while now... such a stupid argument lol

 

[Gm0ney]

Funny, I happen to find myself with a foot in both camps

I DO think that he can be contributing more, and i also think that his production isn't out of line with what's to be expected and I also think that it will improve as he gains more experience

I mean, I'm hoping he's fine and some people are overreacting, but his shot metrics are garbage and his PDO is sky high (27th with 1.046). His production is borderline acceptable, but that line isn't working and they're lucky to be way ahead on GF.

 

[DRW204]

don't really understand the argument that by saying perfetti needs to produce more means he will never get it done, If I didn't think he was capable of getting it done I wouldn't be posting that he needs to produce more, like take names for example, I don't think he is capable of more offense which is why I've been wanting an upgrade at 2c for a while now... such a stupid argument lol

It's so predictable too from some of these posters.

Literally in one of my posts In an attempt on focusing on his play this year I said: "this is not a discussion of what he'll be in the future" as a disclaimer to try and avoid implications or assumptions of "never getting it done."
Unfortunately, overly sensitive posters on here can't help themselves. Maybe they don't read or are just stupid.

 

[abax44]

I know who, Protas plays alot with Strome and Ovi but not on the number 1 PP

They play with PLD. Washington fans love that line.

 

[Cnile]

Get a bonafide #2 center and we probably aren’t having this discussion.
Names is a great team guy but he isn’t the answer for our 2nd line center

 

[KingBogo]

Get a bonafide #2 center and we probably aren’t having this discussion.
Names is a great team guy but he isn’t the answer for our 2nd line center

Agreed, a young actual #2 center under team control is what this team needs. I'm hoping Chevy is aggressive his pursuit.

 

[AtomicJets]

I mean Byfield did spend time on the fourth line and it helped him. McTavish is not a 2C imo. Mercer is 3rd line checking this year...

Our 'second line' is really only getting about 3 more mins than our fourth line/PK guys

I just still dont really see where he fits on the second line - he's not winning draws when he's 2C and he doesn't have chemistry with Ehlers

Stankoven has also been bottom six, including significant 4th line time, all season. That list of players was a swing and a miss for the point he was trying to make.

 

[Gm0ney]

Lol How are people implying he will never get it done? He's underwhelmed the last two seasons doesn't mean it'll happen forever. Just like Connor-scheifele this year vs years previous, no, doesn't guarantee it at all.

So is that fourth line minutes? Is he playing with Kupari and Barron? Yes or no.

Where does he rank in pts/60 at 5v5? Is that ranking where you expected him?

The OP was he doesn't get pp1 minutes. He got it this year and didn't produce and the retort was well he produced last year... Who gives a shit. The original questions was on this year.

You've been pretty down on him. Said he's not great at playmaking, his on-ice stats are all due to his teammates and Hellebuyck, he's not pulling his weight, and you don't see his upside.

If anyone brings up favorable comparisons or numbers or explanations you start complaining that they're blind apologists, cherry picking and just blaming everyone but Perfetti - which is ironic since you seem to be hostile to any and all reasonable discourse, and credit the good results of his line to everyone but him.

I don't think the information regarding Perfetti's TOI requires further clarification. But to further clarify, he gets 21st percentile 5v5 TOI for a 2nd liner and 28th percentile for 2nd line points/60.

The OP said he's on the second powerplay unit - which is true. 25 minutes of PP1 TOI over 9 games isn't a lot of sample size to base any conclusions on...so who gives a shit, indeed?

 

[KingBogo]

Funny, I happen to find myself with a foot in both camps

I DO think that he can be contributing more, and i also think that his production isn't out of line with what's to be expected and I also think that it will improve as he gains more experience

I think most posters are in both camps, just how this place works that you get pushed to one side or the other by those you take a hard stance one way or another. I’m probably pretty close to your viewpoint.

 

[WolfHouse]

Stankoven has also been bottom six, including significant 4th line time, all season. That list of players was a swing and a miss for the point he was trying to make.

Perfetti should always be compared to lundell and jarvis...and thats it

 

[DRW204]

You've been pretty down on him. Said he's not great at playmaking, his on-ice stats are all due to his teammates and Hellebuyck, he's not pulling his weight, and you don't see his upside.

If anyone brings up favorable comparisons or numbers or explanations you start complaining that they're blind apologists, cherry picking and just blaming everyone but Perfetti - which is ironic since you seem to be hostile to any and all reasonable discourse, and credit the good results of his line to everyone but him.

I don't think the information regarding Perfetti's TOI requires further clarification. But to further clarify, he gets 21st percentile 5v5 TOI for a 2nd liner and 28th percentile for 2nd line points/60.

The OP said he's on the second powerplay unit - which is true. 25 minutes of PP1 TOI over 9 games isn't a lot of sample size to base any conclusions on...so who gives a shit, indeed?

All that has to do with this season. Not the future. So once again you have terribly misguided implications and assumptions. You can check my earlier post, literally said my focus was not on the future bc of course he can turn it around and even said that in post 2222.

Favorable comparisons? C'mon. Someone brought up Marner and I said he doesn't have that production or skill. How is Marner a favorable comparison to him lmao. Or, additionally I mentioned I don't see him becoming scheifele in 2016, where he finished 36th in league wide scoring and actually playing center. These are not favorable comparisons imo, but willing and open to hear how they are.

I pointed out he has 3 goals and 12 pts on 24 on ice GF. Some of the lowest %s of a line's contributions of fwds on the team. Does eye test tell you he's driving the line offensively? Doesn't for me, and the stats don't really back it up.
Is Helle not back stopping them? There GA will be low. If you have stats to say otherwise, do post em.

OK so you have concluded for us that this season he doesn't play fourth line, his points per TOI he gets is brutal, and that he did receive pp1 time this season and was unproductive in that time there.
Thank you.

 

[Keystone]

It's so predictable too from some of these posters.

Literally in one of my posts In an attempt on focusing on his play this year I said: "this is not a discussion of what he'll be in the future" as a disclaimer to try and avoid implications or assumptions of "never getting it done."
Unfortunately, overly sensitive posters on here can't help themselves. Maybe they don't read or are just stupid.

People can read but it’s not up to you to set parameters of the discussion. I think a lot of people’s opinions is, he is doing enough things right even if the offence has dried up. If the team can weather it and avoid spending for a replacement til he gets it going again, they are better for it, now and in the future.

 

[DRW204]

People can read but it’s not up to you to set parameters of the discussion. I think a lot of people’s opinions is, he is doing enough things right even if the offence has dried up. If the team can weather it and avoid spending for a replacement til he gets it going again, they are better for it, now and in the future.

It's to avoid people making ridiculous assumptions like gmoney does.

In a post critiquing his play or stats for solely this year I am apparently now part of this camp that implies he well never get it done offensively, which is bullshit.
and that's with even specifying my thoughts are of his play this season so far, not rest of his career.

 

[NA Hockey]

It's to avoid people making ridiculous assumptions like gmoney does.

In a post critiquing his play or stats for solely this year I am apparently now part of this camp that implies he well never get it done offensively, which is bullshit.
and that's with even specifying my thoughts are of his play this season so far, not rest of his career.

So if anyone says he has been bad, everyone else just should say you are right or take it as gospel, and if anyone brings up anything good that he has done they are just a blind apologist and their opinions or stats don’t matter. So basically only your opinions and stats matter? I have said this before many of the things you say are correct, but many of the things posters say about the good things he has done are also correct.

He still as bright future here and yes he does need to produce more. I don’t think he has been great the last 5 games but for about 15 before that, even though there weren’t a tonne of points, he was play fantastic hockey, doing all the little things that help teams win and was just unlucky for points. He needs to get back to that.

 

[NA Hockey]

Stankoven has also been bottom six, including significant 4th line time, all season. That list of players was a swing and a miss for the point he was trying to make.

I used those guys and others in other posts because they are similar age. . Look at time on ice those guys all play a similar amount or more per game

Perfetti has spent the year basically in the bottom six as well as the Lowry line is and gets played like a second line.

Stankoven played a lot in the top 6 early on and Byfield was on the fourth line for only a couple of games.

My point is that his production is similar to Laf, Byfield, Mercer amongst many other young players. Just pointing that out.

Edit: should have included Beniers as well originally as he is a first line centre who was a high pick, same birth year, big contract with less production.

 

[voyageur]

Perfetti should always be compared to lundell and jarvis...and thats it

Maybe Marco Rossi too, if there is a standard against a rival, one draft pick ahead of him, and a similar stature player. Until this season I think Perfetti was seen as the better developed pick, outproducing Rossi in a similar amount of games.. Rossi is now playing top line center, coming off an 8 point week, Player of the Week, and is close to PPG now. As the Jets and Wild battle for top in the division. I read somewhere on these boards that the Wild have a top notch skating coach they employ, can't remember who it referenced though.

Since I jinxed Stanley maybe I'll try to reverse jinx Perfetti by saying he should be benched for Chibrikov

 

[10Ducky10]

Maybe Marco Rossi too, if there is a standard against a rival, one draft pick ahead of him, and a similar stature player. Until this season I think Perfetti was seen as the better developed pick, outproducing Rossi in a similar amount of games.. Rossi is now playing top line center, coming off an 8 point week, Player of the Week, and is close to PPG now. As the Jets and Wild battle for top in the division. I read somewhere on these boards that the Wild have a top notch skating coach they employ, can't remember who it referenced though.

Since I jinxed Stanley maybe I'll try to reverse jinx Perfetti by saying he should be benched for Chibrikov

Quinn and Holtz were picked before him and aren't doing as well as Cole.

 

[voyageur]

Quinn and Holtz were picked before him and aren't doing as well as Cole.

Indeed.

But the Wild are in our division. Their drafts vs our drafts matter somewhat more than what Buffalo or Jersey do (and yes I know Holtz is in Vegas)

Getting Buium last year, the Jets started in the 2nd round. I think Chevy was legitimately trying to protect that one from happening.

You have Strammel vs Barlow, 2023

Ohgren and Yurov vs Mc Groarty/Yager and Lambert 2022

Wallstedt and Lambos vs. Lucius, 2021

How these picks turn out are keys to where the two teams will be in the standings, in the future. As for now Rossi and Perfetti are two top 6 forwards with a lot of career to play, but the former seems to have turned the tide a little, in his favour.