Player Discussion Cole Caufield: The little man with the big future.

How many goals will Caufield score in 22-23?


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Lafleurs Guy

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I've yet to see an explanation for why it's better for Caufield to make 7m over 4 years followed by 11m over the next 4 vs 9m over 8. It's the same amount of money paid to Caufield in both situations.
1. It’s a smaller cap hit over a longer period of time. Right now cap doesn’t matter to us, it’s going to matter a lot more four years from now.

2. We avoid the possibility of him leaving sooner.

3. The cap continues to go up. He might command more than 11 million four or five years from now. Plus he’d be UFA and have the hammer over us.

Much better to lock him up now. It might be expensive now but it will be a bargain later when we’ll need the cap space.
 

MXD

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1. It’s a smaller cap hit over a longer period of time. Right now cap doesn’t matter to us, it’s going to matter a lot more four years from now.

2. We avoid the possibility of him leaving sooner.

3. The cap continues to go up. He might command more than 11 million four or five years from now. Plus he’d be UFA and have the hammer over us.

Much better to lock him up now. It might be expensive now but it will be a bargain later when we’ll need the cap space.

Not that your points are invalid or off or wrong, but they have nothing to do with Cole Caufield.
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

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It would be nice if teams could see into the future before giving big money contracts to players that haven't played in the league for very long. I like Caufield's talent, but giving him 8 million a year at this stage of his young career reminds me a bit of the Toronto situation, things haven't quite gone according to plan for them.

CC will always have to be very cautious on the ice because he isn't built to absorb hits (please don't reply with the moar biggar crap because it's childish) and teams will go after him because of it. We need some size with talent to play with him and Suzuki because physical teams can shut them down.

Come on now, unless CC gets over 8-9 mil per, it's far from the same situation as Toronto.

Both Marner and Matthews got shorter deals than 8 years, and both made much more than 8-9 mil per. Then you add the 7 years given to Tavares. Then consider all their contracts have been inside the worst financial window since the start of the cap era, which removed the diminishing cost % reduction that a yearly increasing cap creates and made their whole situation much worse.

Both CC and Suzuki's cap hit will be well under Marner and Matthew's, on top of the league starting to increase the cap again, which will help compound their cap hit over the years.

It's probably the most quintessential rule for efficient cap management in an ever increasing cap. You sign your best players to the longest term early, so their cap hit % become much lower in their prime years.

We absolutely need to sign CC for 8 years. Like we did Suzuki. That is what will give us the most cap leverage down the road.
 

OldCraig71

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Come on now, unless CC gets over 8-9 mil per, it's far from the same situation as Toronto.

Both Marner and Matthews got shorter deals than 8 years, and both made much more than 8-9 mil per. Then you add the 7 years given to Tavares. Then consider all their contracts have been inside the worst financial window since the start of the cap era, which removed the diminishing cost % reduction that a yearly increasing cap creates and made their whole situation much worse.

Both CC and Suzuki's cap hit will be well under Marner and Matthew's, on top of the league starting to increase the cap again, which will help compound their cap hit over the years.

It's probably the most quintessential rule for efficient cap management in an ever increasing cap. You sign your best players to the longest term early, so their cap hit % become much lower in their prime years.

We absolutely need to sign CC for 8 years. Like we did Suzuki. That is what will give us the most cap leverage down the road.
I understand that the goal is to lock up young talent before they break out and the deal becomes a bargain but it doesn't always work out hence my reference to the Leafs young "star" players. Caufield has/had a shoulder issue and he claimed to be popping it back in for a period of time until the pain/lack of mobility caused him to be shut down for the season. He is one of the smallest players in the league and will always have to be super cautious on the ice because he is not built to take hits from big players. I like him and his talent level but giving him 8 million for 7-8 years is risky and I do realize it's the way the league works. I would like to see a Sam Bennett/Tom Wilson type of player on that line with CC and Suzuki and we don't currently have it.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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I would like to see a Sam Bennett/Tom Wilson type of player on that line with CC and Suzuki and we don't currently have it.
As long as a big player who protects CC is usefull on that line. If he's only there to be a bodygard, it will affect the whole line production. We already have Josh Anderson and a majority of posters here wants him gone. He doesn't score enough, he doesn't make enough passes. What I saw is with his physical play he creates chances of scoring. That doesn't always translate into the scoresheet. But he makes opponents sweat and they become nervous. Players like CC takes advantage of nervous opponents. My point is yes we can have small skilled players like CC but they need to be surrounded by big players like Tkachuk, Wilson or Anderson. If they are left alone there is a problem.
 

OldCraig71

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As long as a big player who protects CC is usefull on that line. If he's only there to be a bodygard, it will affect the whole line production. We already have Josh Anderson and a majority of posters here wants him gone. He doesn't score enough, he doesn't make enough passes. What I saw is with his physical play he creates chances of scoring. That doesn't always translate into the scoresheet. But he makes opponents sweat and they become nervous. Players like CC takes advantage of nervous opponents. My point is yes we can have small skilled players like CC but they need to be surrounded by big players like Tkachuk, Wilson or Anderson. If they are left alone there is a problem.
Anderson didn't really click with those guys, he isn't talented enough to play with either. He struggles with passing and puck-carrying and is more suited for a dump-and-chase type of line. He seemed to play much better with RHP than either of those two. I agree with you that we need a skilled forward with size to compliment them.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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Not that your points are invalid or off or wrong, but they have nothing to do with Cole Caufield.
How so? It has everything to do with how we should approach his contract going forward.

And I really don’t like how he hasn’t been signed btw. Makes me wonder if his agent isn’t wanting him to test the RFA market.
 

Captain97

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I've yet to see an explanation for why it's better for Caufield to make 7m over 4 years followed by 11m over the next 4 vs 9m over 8. It's the same amount of money paid to Caufield in both situations.

It's actually strictly worse for both parties.

1. Chance of injury not getting that next contract losing 44 million.

2. Front loaded with signing bonuses. The whole expression a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow is 100% true. We see it with inflation and if someone is interested, in Economics/Finance/Actuarial sciences it's called Time Value money.

For the team they'd have a lower cap hit for when they are contending.
 
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Estimated_Prophet

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It's actually strictly worse for both parties.

1. Chance of injury not getting that next contract losing 44 million.

2. Front loaded with signing bonuses. The whole expression a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow is 100% true. We see it with inflation and if someone is interested, in Economics/Finance/Actuarial sciences it's called Time Value money.

For the team they'd have a lower cap hit for when they are contending.

Cap hit is the same for both scenarios as it is simply the AAV that is applied equally from the 1st to the last year of the deal. It is actually better for the team to pay him more early in the deal so that the actual money paid at the end is smaller in the scenario that you want to move him.
 

Kaladin

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Cole's contract is taking longer than I would've expected but I'm not worried a deal doesn't get done. There are plenty of good comps out there that narrow the range of the deal so they shouldn't be too far apart. Boldy's contract may be the perfect comp for Caufield, so I imagine it would be pretty close to that in the $7M+ range. He can't be more than Robertson's $7.75M IMO. So that's my range for his next contract. $7M-$7.75M range, fingers crossed.

That being said, if he does sign a QO, I'd cut him lose. I wouldn't want a player who doesn't want to be here and four 1st round picks aren't nothing. Then, I'd send Xhekaj after him every game we played against him lol.
Robertson is a 4 year deal though. I want caufield locked up for 7+ at least. That'll cost us more.
 

NotProkofievian

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Only by virtue of Robertson being two years older. Caufield has done more at a younger age. And quite frankly CC would’ve produced even earlier if he weren’t playing for a moron coach.

I think that's what's at the heart of the dispute. It wasn't Hughes' fault that Ducharme was squeezing the life out of Cole, but nonetheless Cole feels that he just hasn't had a full fair chance to show his true value. That's fair enough.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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I think that's what's at the heart of the dispute. It wasn't Hughes' fault that Ducharme was squeezing the life out of Cole, but nonetheless Cole feels that he just hasn't had a full fair chance to show his true value. That's fair enough.
No idea what’s happening on the contract front but I hope Hughes isn’t trying to squeeze him too hard. I’d be fine giving him the Suzuki deal to get it done. It’ll be a bargain within a couple of years.

If we don’t get a deal done I think you may see an RFA offer sheet coming. We’ll see.
 

Sterling Archer

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Only by virtue of Robertson being two years older. Caufield has done more at a younger age. And quite frankly CC would’ve produced even earlier if he weren’t playing for a moron coach.
Robertson came in at almost a point per game, has hit 40+ goals in both of his first two seasons and by being 2 years older and 6” taller, has already proven his worth. The fact his contract was shorter goes to the fact he’s older and that much closer to being a UFA at the end of his contract.

I have little doubt that if you asked any GM in the league, who they’d rather have in their lineup, 32 would pick Robertson. Not a slight on Caufield, but Robertson is a beast of a player and the best one in that team. He’s instantly be the best player on the Habs and I don’t think you can say that about Caufield.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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Robertson came in at almost a point per game, has hit 40+ goals in both of his first two seasons and by being 2 years older and 6” taller, has already proven his worth. The fact his contract was shorter goes to the fact he’s older and that much closer to being a UFA at the end of his contract.

I have little doubt that if you asked any GM in the league, who they’d rather have in their lineup, 32 would pick Robertson. Not a slight on Caufield, but Robertson is a beast of a player and the best one in that team. He’s instantly be the best player on the Habs and I don’t think you can say that about Caufield.
Caulfield’s size is an issue, that’s pretty much it. Production wise - the guy has consistently broken scoring records in the minors and when given an actual opportunity has paced for around fifty goals. He’s done so at a younger age than Robertson and - as I said previously- would’ve done it even earlier if not for an idiot coach.

Last year the poll I made was 96 percent Suzuki over Caufield- a ridiculous result. Would that pill be the same now? I don’t think so (I’d certainly hope not anyway.) He’s constantly been underrated because he’s a smaller player. But he’s always produced.

No, I don’t think Robertson is miles ahead the way you do. And I’m sure Caufield feels that way as well.
 

Sterling Archer

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Caulfield’s size is an issue, that’s pretty much it. Production wise - the guy has consistently broken scoring records in the minors and when given an actual opportunity has paced for around fifty goals. He’s done so at a younger age than Robertson and - as I said previously- would’ve done it even earlier if not for an idiot coach.

Last year the poll I made was 96 percent Suzuki over Caufield- a ridiculous result. Would that pill be the same now? I don’t think so (I’d certainly hope not anyway.) He’s constantly been underrated because he’s a smaller player. But he’s always produced.

No, I don’t think Robertson is miles ahead the way you do. And I’m sure Caufield feels that way as well.
So size is an issue, 96% of posters think Suzuki is better and he hasn’t accomplished anything close to Robertson who is the best player on a far better team. Got it!

Yeah, definitely sounds like a better version of Robertson and guy who should make more money :sarcasm:
 

Lafleurs Guy

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So size is an issue, 96% of posters think Suzuki is better and he hasn’t accomplished anything close to Robertson who is the best player on a far better team.
Size is a factor - but it’s overblown

96 percent of our posters were wrong. And they were wrong because they’re overly focused on size.

Caufield has produced better at a younger age despite being held back. You can’t compare players this young on pure accomplishment when there’s a two year age gap. It’s stupid to do that. You have to look at how they did relative to their age. And the bottom line is that the moment CC had the opportunity, he produced at close to a 50 goal clip.
If you turn what I said into a pretzel… sure.
Yeah, definitely sounds like a better version of Robertson and guy who should make more money :sarcasm:
It’s a comparable. And I’m sure CC’s agent will make all the points I did - and rightly so. Minus the insane poll of course. :laugh:
 

Sterling Archer

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No idea what’s happening on the contract front but I hope Hughes isn’t trying to squeeze him too hard. I’d be fine giving him the Suzuki deal to get it done. It’ll be a bargain within a couple of years.

If we don’t get a deal done I think you may see an RFA offer sheet coming. We’ll see.
That’s what I said. I’d have Suzuki as the cap limit for Caufield. Certainly less than $8M per on a long term deal
 

Lafleurs Guy

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That’s what I said. I’d have Suzuki as the cap limit for Caufield. Certainly less than $8M per on a long term deal
I’d like that too.

But caufield would get more on the open market. He knows it. His agent knows it.

It’s not what you and I want that matters, it’s what he’s going to push for.
 
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Sterling Archer

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I’d like that too.

But caufield would get more on the open market. He knows it. His agent knows it.

It’s not what you and I want that matters, it’s what he’s going to push for.

Depending on the team, I’d rather have four 1st than pay him $9M+. But that’s just me. Besides, most contending teams don’t have the dice to add that much cap, so it’d have to be a mid to bottom tier team who makes that kind of an offer.

I don’t think it goes there, but you have to be prepared for the worst. At this point it seems like he’s actively seeking and OS, and if that’s the case, I wouldn’t want him on my team anyways. Take the picks and get another young star who wants to be a Hab.
 
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