Confirmed with Link: [COL, CAR, CHI] Rantanen-Hall to CAR, Necas-Drury-25 2nd-26 4th to COL, Chi 25 3rd to Chi (Ret 50% on Mikko)

[RoyIsALegend]

Kyper calling the ”14M like Draisaitl” narrative BS, says he’s heard that Rantanen camp actually would have signed for less than what MacKinnon makes but the Avs still didn’t want to give him a deal that big.

Ok, so then this deal fell apart over, at the most, $750k a year or 6m over 8 years.

Who’s to blame?

The Avs set their max at $11.75m x 8y.

Kypreos says he would’ve signed for less than MacKinnon. Kypreos’ contacts are always the agents.

Was that $750k per season, at the most, so important to Mikko to essentially force the Avalanche’s hand into a trade? He just expected to wait us out and we would eventually cave at the 11th hour before he hit free agency?

CMac wasn’t comfortable with that. This was the outcome.

 

[BobRossColton]

Can you give me the winning lottery numbers please

Yeah, totally..

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah, that would be the most unfortunate thing, if he truly wanted to stay and wasn’t hung up on an undoable salary. If he was hands off and his agent pushed it to that point I genuinely feel bad for him. I do hope (but doubt) that Cmac would have went to him directly and told him that they could go to X amount otherwise they have a trade lined up with Carolina. Let him make that final decision and not allow the agent to force a trade.

I have been on the “trade him to get deeper” train for a while but he is still a good dude who was a homegrown pillar. It would be nice from a humane perspective if he had the final say on taking a discount or knowing he was gone.


Oh I dunno about that, I think they’ve proposed more trades than possible lottery number variations lol.

He looked shellshocked in his interview in the Canes dressing room. I genuinely was both angry at him, and felt bad for him at the same time.

That agent would be pounding sand if it was me.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Ok, so then this deal fell apart over, at the most, $750k a year or 6m over 8 years.

Who’s to blame?

The Avs set their max at $11.75m x 8y.

Kypreos says he would’ve signed for less than MacKinnon. Kypreos’ contacts are always the agents.

Was that $750k per season, at the most, so important to Mikko to essentially force the Avalanche’s hand into a trade? He just expected to wait us out and we would eventually cave at the 11th hour before he hit free agency?

CMac wasn’t comfortable with that. This was the outcome.

Unfortunately Cmac is the one with his back against the wall too. However he seen his ability to build the team, only he knows exactly why that was the number.

It's not far off where most of us were when looking at them being able to ice a competitive team either.

I was personally in the mid to low 11M range without him driving his own line.

 

[GeoRox89]

Can you give me the winning lottery numbers please

They sure can. It’ll just be sandwiched between 10000 randomly generated combinations but if you look hard enough later you’ll find the one winner

 

[AvsWraith]

I'm now wondering if CMac and Joe were thinking, like a lot of us on this board, that something needed to change with the core. I mean what do they have to show for themselves since winning the cup? Bounced in the first round by Seattle, and another painful loss to Dallas. It would definitely make me reconsider some things if I was a GM. Now if we were in the West Finals or Cup Finals every year since then, Mikko probably would've gotten paid. It's all about winning.

 

[the_fan]

I'm now wondering if CMac and Joe were thinking, like a lot of us on this board, that something needed to change with the core. I mean what do they have to show for themselves since winning the cup? Bounced in the first round by Seattle, and another painful loss to Dallas. It would definitely make me reconsider some things if I was a GM. Now if we were in the West Finals or Cup Finals every year since then, Mikko probably would've gotten paid. It's all about winning.

I don’t think they wanted to break up the core. They did offer Mikko a contract which he didn’t accept so that means they were willing to keep him. We haven’t won anything after the cup year because we lost key players, haven’t had Landy since, and we simply just haven’t been a deep enough team to go far. This trade was made to make the team deeper. That’s what CMac pretty said

 

[cinchronicity]

Yeah, that would be the most unfortunate thing, if he truly wanted to stay and wasn’t hung up on an undoable salary. If he was hands off and his agent pushed it to that point I genuinely feel bad for him. I do hope (but doubt) that Cmac would have went to him directly and told him that they could go to X amount otherwise they have a trade lined up with Carolina. Let him make that final decision and not allow the agent to force a trade.

I have been on the “trade him to get deeper” train for a while but he is still a good dude who was a homegrown pillar. It would be nice from a humane perspective if he had the final say on taking a discount or knowing he was gone.


Oh I dunno about that, I think they’ve proposed more trades than possible lottery number variations lol.

CMac is not particularly allowed to go straight to Mikko. The NHLPA frowns on it. The agents absolutely frown upon it. And, frankly, management should frown upon it. Never show your cards in a negotiation.

While none of us know for sure - well, possibly @RoyIsALegend or Evan - exactly what was said in the last meeting, but both sides seem to agree that Cmac said something to the extent that they would make him the highest paid winger, and all parties know that was Panarin's $11.7M. I believe we all know that CMac made it clear this was as high as he was going to go. What we do not know is what Mikko's agent told HIM. I'll take a wild guess that he was told the Oilers said the same thing about Drai, so Mikko should just wait them out. Regardless, as soon as Mikko's agent said that being the highest paid winger was not enough, then as a professional athlete, Mikko should have known a trade was possible, if not entirely likely.

 

[Avsfan1921]

CMac is not particularly allowed to go straight to Mikko. The NHLPA frowns on it. The agents absolutely frown upon it. And, frankly, management should frown upon it. Never show your cards in a negotiation.

While none of us know for sure - well, possibly @RoyIsALegend or Evan - exactly what was said in the last meeting, but both sides seem to agree that Cmac said something to the extent that they would make him the highest paid winger, and all parties know that was Panarin's $11.7M. I believe we all know that CMac made it clear this was as high as he was going to go. What we do not know is what Mikko's agent told HIM. I'll take a wild guess that he was told the Oilers said the same thing about Drai, so Mikko should just wait them out. Regardless, as soon as Mikko's agent said that being the highest paid winger was not enough, then as a professional athlete, Mikko should have known a trade was possible, if not entirely likely.

I absolutely do not dispute Mikko should have known it was possible, but did he know how serious and close it was?

I don’t know how hands off players can be in these situations and I obviously don’t know how the inner workings of how contract negotiations go, so they are not allowed to talk directly? I find that surprising. If it is only frowned upon I would give zero sh**s in that case. This is an all time franchise player, not your average Joe. As far as showing your cards in negotiations, imo that doesn’t apply here. In this scenario they’ve already held their cards, the bluff was called…. Either accept the final offer or we make this trade.

 

[MacKaRant]

I absolutely do not dispute Mikko should have known it was possible, but did he know how serious and close it was?

I don’t know how hands off players can be in these situations and I obviously don’t know how the inner workings of how contract negotiations go, so they are not allowed to talk directly? I find that surprising. If it is only frowned upon I would give zero sh**s in that case. This is an all time franchise player, not your average Joe. As far as showing your cards in negotiations, imo that doesn’t apply here. In this scenario they’ve already held their cards, the bluff was called…. Either accept the final offer or we make this trade.

Nah, the front office needs to look out for the good of the logo above anything else. MacKinnon, Makar, and Toews all got done within the first couple weeks of the season; it was the choice of Mikko and his agent to drag this out and use empty net goals to inflate his counting stats in a contract year. Especially with the history of the difficulty of negotiating with this player.

Giving him an ultimatum during the season can have all kinds of unpredictable and negative effects, including tanking his trade value, harming team chemistry, and so forth.

 

[Avsfan1921]

Nah, the front office needs to look out for the good of the logo above anything else. MacKinnon, Makar, and Toews all got done within the first couple weeks of the season; it was the choice of Mikko and his agent to drag this out and use empty net goals to inflate his counting stats in a contract year. Especially with the history of the difficulty of negotiating with this player.

Giving him an ultimatum during the season can have all kinds of unpredictable and negative effects, including tanking his trade value, harming team chemistry, and so forth.

To be clear, I was firmly on the trade rants side. We needed to reallocate our salary structure and he was the obvious piece to do so with, I am just looking at it from an empath pov.

However I am unsure how giving him the final option after a potential trade is in place of “this is all we can afford, will you accept it or go to Carolina?” Would cause all kinds of unpredictability, tanking his value, or harming team chemistry, or harms branding/logo.

 

[BrickNHL]

Necas gonna be on the spitting chicklets episode tomorrow, that should be an interesting listen

 

[Cypher]

There's no point arguing what the Avs and what Mikko's price was, all these reporters are just spitballing. I'll reserve judgement until Mikko re-signs in Carolina (or other) and see what the contract terms are.

 

[EdAVSfan]

as more info comes out, I think it becomes clearer and clearer what happened. There was prob a lack of proper communication between the 2. I’m curious to know how clear CMac made it that their 11.75M AAV was pretty much their end point.

I have to assume the agent and Rant prob thought it was just part of the give and take of every negotiation. 1 party starts high and 1 starts low and you creep towards the middle.

Now, what’s also clear to me is that Rants’ camp was using time as leverage. If 11.75 is offered end of January, then it’s logical they assume an increased offer comes close to the deadline, and the best offers will come as they approach July 1st.

While a trade was always possible, I don’t think they believed the likelihood was high. They clearly misjudged.

But it’s difficult to know for certain how transparent the Avs were with that 11.75M offer. Was it clear they weren’t going higher or was it like any other offer.

We’ll never know.

What we do know is that Rants’ camp didn’t believe that a trade was a strong possibility. They played a bit of chicken.

It may still work out for him and he’ll likely get more money than what the Avs would’ve given him. But, Rantanen has 35-40 games to show that he’s a 50-50 guy on his own, rather than a 50-50 guy because of where he was.
Either way, I don’t think it’ll hurt his bottom line unless he really stinks it up in Carolina.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Lebrun was on overdrive.

His takeaway from his interview with Cmac is that Cmac actually felt like he probably could have got a deal done but they ultimately made the decision that they won’t be able to have all 3 of Nate, Makar and Mikko under contract once Makar gets extended.

 

[dahrougem2]

Ok, so then this deal fell apart over, at the most, $750k a year or 6m over 8 years.

Who’s to blame?

The Avs set their max at $11.75m x 8y.

Kypreos says he would’ve signed for less than MacKinnon. Kypreos’ contacts are always the agents.

Was that $750k per season, at the most, so important to Mikko to essentially force the Avalanche’s hand into a trade? He just expected to wait us out and we would eventually cave at the 11th hour before he hit free agency?

CMac wasn’t comfortable with that. This was the outcome.

I remember when Ryan Smyth was traded to the Islanders in 2007 and it later came out that he refused to sign over 100K difference. I know the Oilers sucked for a decade after but I also think they were just fine not paying him. Some guys overvalue themselves juuuust a bit too much.

There's no point arguing what the Avs and what Mikko's price was, all these reporters are just spitballing. I'll reserve judgement until Mikko re-signs in Carolina (or other) and see what the contract terms are.

I don't know that they're just spitballing. Everything seems to be lining up. Avs offer of 11.75, Mikko being willing to sign "below market value" which likely meant 12.5M and that is a number the Avs did not want to get to. Mikko chose money - he has every right to - and the Avs chose to replace him.

 

[Avsfan1921]

Lebrun was on overdrive.

His takeaway from his interview with Cmac is that Cmac actually felt like he probably could have got a deal done but they ultimately made the decision that they won’t be able to have all 3 of Nate, Makar and Mikko under contract once Makar gets extended.

That’s an oddball take to me, why not just trade him earlier for a potential better return then? They had to have known he was going to cost at minimum 11+, and that number being very optimistic. Seems odd to negotiate while knowing you can’t afford it in you projections.

IMO they wanted to get a deal done but got scared of losing him for nothing and couldn’t meet his current demand.

 

[EdAVSfan]

That’s an oddball take to me, why not just trade him earlier for a potential better return then? They had to have known he was going to cost at minimum 11+, and that number being very optimistic. Seems odd to negotiate while knowing you can’t afford it in you projections.

IMO they wanted to get a deal done but got scared of losing him for nothing.

Things changed during the season though. They made the goaltending a lot more expensive.
Perhaps it also became clearer throughout this season that Landeskog was more of a possibility to return whereas in the offseason, they were still unsure.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

That’s an oddball take to me, why not just trade him earlier for a potential better return then? They had to have known he was going to cost at minimum 11+, and that number being very optimistic. Seems odd to negotiate while knowing you can’t afford it in you projections.

IMO they wanted to get a deal done but got scared of losing him for nothing and couldn’t meet his current demand.

According to insiders, the offers in the summer weren’t that great and talks never got serious. Even with the Hurricanes.

Once they were willing to put Necas on the table and made it clear they could pivot to Vancouver, CMac felt time was running out. They wouldn’t include Necas in a Vancouver deal but were willing to do that for Rantanen.

CMac has coveted Necas. Once he was included in the talks, it got serious. He wasn’t on the table in the summer.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Can I also just add that it would be great to get some @henchman insight into this monstrosity of a move.

Hope everything is good with him.

Maybe he’s lurking around under a different name.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

That’s an oddball take to me, why not just trade him earlier for a potential better return then? They had to have known he was going to cost at minimum 11+, and that number being very optimistic. Seems odd to negotiate while knowing you can’t afford it in you projections.

IMO they wanted to get a deal done but got scared of losing him for nothing and couldn’t meet his current demand.

He said there was an offer made by Colorado last week which Rantanen’s camp rejected.

 

[Avsfan1921]

Things changed during the season though. They made the goaltending a lot more expensive.
Perhaps it also became clearer throughout this season that Landeskog was more of a possibility to return whereas in the offseason, they were still unsure.

I thought they meant meant Lebrun thought that leading directly up to the trade. If that’s not the case then yeah, Lebrun is likely correct, but that’s not exactly insider information and exactly what we've all been speculating on since last season lol.

 

[Avsfan1921]

He said there was an offer made by Colorado last week which Rantanen’s camp rejected.

Exactly, which implies to me that they were intent on still trying to sign him. They didn’t just come to the realization that they can’t afford all three. Unless I’m misunderstanding what Lebrun was implying?

 

[CobraAcesS]

Can I also just add that it would be great to get some @henchman insight into this monstrosity of a move.

Hope everything is good with him.

Maybe he’s lurking around under a different name.

I thought I seen a thread bumped, where the post was from a deleted account.

It seemed like his type of comment. I meant to go back and look through, but forgot, and the thread dropped off.

Not saying he deleted his account for sure but it's possible.

I can't get anything past @hen to populate a list of accounts.

 

[MacKaRant]

That’s an oddball take to me, why not just trade him earlier for a potential better return then? They had to have known he was going to cost at minimum 11+, and that number being very optimistic. Seems odd to negotiate while knowing you can’t afford it in you projections.

IMO they wanted to get a deal done but got scared of losing him for nothing and couldn’t meet his current demand.

It sounds like the basic framework of the Carolina deal was laid out during the offseason, but the offer wasn't compelling enough to accept at that time. Or maybe the front office thought they could net a similar return in season.

I have no idea whether this played into their approach, but it's possible the team also wanted to see how Mikko would look in a contract year and see whether his form would be closer to the line-driving impact he showed in 20-21 and 21-22. We don't need to rehash things, but I don't think it's a big secret that for whatever reason Mikko didn't come into the 23-24 season in the best playing shape. Whether it's $90 million or $100 million or whatever, you probably don't want to commit that amount of money to someone who isn't driven to win and might end up aging like Huberdeau