Coaching is a serious problem.

[Habs]

I’m pretty sure other players are getting shots.

Slaf has 7 shots, Cole has 20. You don't think there's a simple system in place that revolves around one guy right now? Pretty sure by game 20 the other teams will have their pre-game scouting all worked out.

 

[Habnot]

If you are going to judge MSL on playing a tight mature defensive game, give him a veteran team like the Islanders.....not the 2nd youngest team in the league with the youngest defense.

I get there is always a need to find something to freak out on but on year three of his tenure he now has the youngest team he coached. Importantly, everyone under 25 is getting better (Dach does not count returning from such a horrific injury) and that's what really matters.

 

[Sorinth]

Roger Grillo better buckle up.....................MSL needs more help than he is getting. One shift last night, them were hemmed in their own zone for 4 minutes, 5 on 5..............
Maybe Grillow can put a shirt and tie on, and get behind the bench?

I mean one guy didn't have a stick so it wasn't really a 5 on 5. There's lots of things for the team needs to work on but by trying to mislead and make things look worse then they actually are you hurt the point you are trying to make.

 

[Habby4Life]

I mean one guy didn't have a stick so it wasn't really a 5 on 5. There's lots of things for the team needs to work on but by trying to mislead and make things look worse then they actually are you hurt the point you are trying to make.

Their in zone D coverage has been atrocious not just this year. Of the 6 games, only 1 (Sens) they weren’t hemmed in their own end continually for periods on end. There is a reason they are last in a lot of D statistics.

This isn’t a new problem.

 

[HuGo Sham]

like many here, I have my issues with MSL, but habs are still a one line team with a rusty Dach and 3, 3rd lines.
Matheson is at best a 3 and Savard is cooked.
Xhekaj is oldest D among the rest.
In the mix, means at the bottom of the glass ready to be stirred and finished.
like leftover hot cocoa.
not playoffs

 

[Sorinth]

Their in zone D coverage has been atrocious not just this year. Of the 6 games, only 1 (Sens) they weren’t hemmed in their own end continually for periods on end. There is a reason they are last in a lot of D statistics.

This isn’t a new problem.

Which is exactly my point, there are plenty of examples to use so why try to mislead by saying spent 4min in their own zone at 5 on 5. It maybe factually correct but Kapanen with a broken stick means it wasn't a real 5 on 5 situation. All it does it is make you look like a hater which devalues anything you have to say even when it's something true like we've struggle in our own zone for many years.

 

[Sorinth]

like many here, I have my issues with MSL, but habs are still a one line team with a rusty Dach and 3, 3rd lines.
Matheson is at best a 3 and Savard is cooked.
Xhekaj is oldest D among the rest.
In the mix, means at the bottom of the glass ready to be stirred and finished.
like leftover hot cocoa.
not playoffs

I mean they talked about being in the mix before really knowing Dach would be very rusty, that Savard would struggle, and that Laine would be injured. And honestly looking at the standings today we are in the mix, yes it's in part due to the small number of games played but not many games played works both ways, the low amount of games also means we can't jump to conclusions about players being cooked.

 

[Habby4Life]

Which is exactly my point, there are plenty of examples to use so why try to mislead by saying spent 4min in their own zone at 5 on 5. It maybe factually correct but Kapanen with a broken stick means it wasn't a real 5 on 5 situation. All it does it is make you look like a hater which devalues anything you have to say even when it's something true like we've struggle in our own zone for many years

Except for the fact they were hemmed in the zone for about a full minute before his stick broke. A full minute, lol. Pretending this didn’t or doesn’t happen on a nightly basis is just plain ignorance. The shift was a laughable summation of this teams D zone teaching.

Like I said, this happens all the time to this team and it’s not just this season. Of the six games, 5 of them they were chasing all night. Usually badly outplayed, out chanced, and out shot.

They have zero D structure and it shows every night. Don’t know why MSL is beyond reproach especially, when this team is so bad without the puck.

A decent coach can teach a team how to play D but MSL is far from a decent coach.

 

[Tyson]

Except for the fact they were hemmed in the zone for about a full minute before his stick broke. A full minute, lol.

Like I said, this happens all the time to this team and it’s not just this season.

They have zero D structure and it shows every night. Don’t know why MSL is beyond reproach especially, when this team is so bad without the puck.

A decent coach can teach a team how to play D.

There is a following that loves MSL and he can't do no wrong and there are those asking where the D structure is and why it isn't improving, why you rarely see in game adjustments etc.

 

[salbutera]

Roger Grillo better buckle up.....................MSL needs more help than he is getting. One shift last night, them were hemmed in their own zone for 4 minutes, 5 on 5..............
Maybe Grillow can put a shirt and tie on, and get behind the bench?

Does that include a rookie mistake of staying on without a stick vs going to the bench for a replacement stick / player extending that shift by 2.5-3min?

 

[Sorinth]

Except for the fact they were hemmed in the zone for about a full minute before his stick broke. A full minute, lol.

Like I said, this happens all the time to this team and it’s not just this season.

They have zero D structure and it shows every night. Don’t know why MSL is beyond reproach especially, when this team is so bad without the puck.

A decent coach can teach a team how to play D.

See here's the thing, I'm not sure when the stick broke besides it being early on for those 4 minutes, so it's fully possible that we were in our zone for a full minute before the stick broke. But given you've tried to be misleading about the whole situation why should I just believe you? I don't feel like it's worth my time to find a video of the shift to figure out, so I have no idea if you are telling the truth or just being misleading again. Which is why you shouldn't be misleading in the first place, it hurts any point you actually try to make.

And I would also point out that even a full minute stuck in your own zone is pretty common, we've done that to the opposition at times and we kind of suck. By itself it's pretty meaningless, and when you look at who was on the ice, it's 3 rookies, two of them defencemen who have a combined 15 NHL games (Or 13.5 at the time of the shift) and the other 2 guys were Anderson and Dvorak two vets everybody wants gone ASAP. Like the whole situation is kind of a nothing burger where the chances NYI generated were kind of meh. So it's basically a learning experience for the young guys on the importance of making sure the puck gets out when you have the opportunity.

 

[Habby4Life]

There is a following that loves MSL and he can't do no wrong and there are those asking where the D structure is and why it isn't improving, why you rarely see in game adjustments etc.

How anyone can watch this team and think they are well coached defensively is just lauaghable.

Its seems like some just perpetually want another top 5 pick. If shit don’t improve soon this rebuild can easily go the sabres route.

See here's the thing, I'm not sure when the stick broke besides it being early on for those 4 minutes, so it's fully possible that we were in our zone for a full minute before the stick broke. But given you've tried to be misleading about the whole situation why should I just believe you? I don't feel like it's worth my time to find a video of the shift to figure out, so I have no idea if you are telling the truth or just being misleading again. Which is why you shouldn't be misleading in the first place, it hurts any point you actually try to make.

And I would also point out that even a full minute stuck in your own zone is pretty common, we've done that to the opposition at times and we kind of suck. By itself it's pretty meaningless, and when you look at who was on the ice, it's 3 rookies, two of them defencemen who have a combined 15 NHL games (Or 13.5 at the time of the shift) and the other 2 guys were Anderson and Dvorak two vets everybody wants gone ASAP. Like the whole situation is kind of a nothing burger where the chances NYI generated were kind of meh. So it's basically a learning experience for the young guys on the importance of making sure the puck gets out when you have the opportunity.

Of course you wouldn’t believe it. MSL fans have their heads buried in the sand. So many excuses why this team is so bad defensively and none of them can be coaching.

If you can tell me this team doesn’t look lost in their end and/or get hemmed in on a night basis, don’t know if one can have a serious conversation. It ain’t all on the players.

Said it many times, a quality coach can teach an under manned squad (skilled) to play well without the puck, happens all the time.

 

[Tyson]

How anyone can watch this team and think they are well coached defensively is just lauaghable.

Its seems like some just perpetually want another top 5 pick. If shit don’t improve soon this rebuild can easily go the sabres route.


Of course you wouldn’t believe it. MSL fans have their heads buried in the sand. So many excuses why this team is so bad defensively and none of them can be coaching.

If you can tell me this team doesn’t look lost in their end and/or get hemmed in on a night basis, don’t know if one can have a serious conversation. It ain’t all on the players.

Said it many times, a quality coach can teach an under manned squad (skilled) to play well without the puck, happens all the time.

Quality coaches absolutely can teach a decent defensive system.

 

[BLONG7]

I mean one guy didn't have a stick so it wasn't really a 5 on 5. There's lots of things for the team needs to work on but by trying to mislead and make things look worse then they actually are you hurt the point you are trying to make.

They get hemmed in their zone, every night.........guys have sticks, they don't have sticks.......doesn't seem to matter. I am not making this $hit up............watch the games.
The system they play in their end, is............brutal.
Grillo? Robidas? MSL...............someone has to own it.

Does that include a rookie mistake of staying on without a stick vs going to the bench for a replacement stick / player extending that shift by 2.5-3min?

Did you watch any of the games this year??
Let's not hang the horrible dzone coverage for 6 games, on a rookie.

 

[Tyson]

They get hemmed in their zone, every night.........guys have sticks, they don't have sticks.......doesn't seem to matter. I am not making this $hit up............watch the games.
The system they play in their end, is............brutal.
Grillo? Robidas? MSL...............someone has to own it.


Did you watch any of the games this year??
Let's not hang the horrible dzone coverage for 6 games, on a rookie.

Well said

 

[Sorinth]

Of course you wouldn’t believe it. MSL fans have their heads buried in the sand. So many excuses why this team is so bad defensively and none of them can be coaching.

If you can tell me this team doesn’t look lost in their end and/or get hemmed in on a night basis, don’t know if one can have a serious conversation. It ain’t all on the players.

Said it many times, a quality coach can teach an under manned squad (skilled) to play well without the puck, happens all the time.

Can you point out where I said any of those things? In the first post on the subject I even said we we have a lot of things that need improvement. We can't have a serious conversation because you think anyone who doesn't agree with everything you think is burying their head in the sand.

 

[ReimanSum1908]

Slaf has 7 shots, Cole has 20. You don't think there's a simple system in place that revolves around one guy right now? Pretty sure by game 20 the other teams will have their pre-game scouting all worked out.

To be fair, at this point, certainly due to an injury, Slafkovsky barely looks like he's even capable of shooting the puck.

 

[Habby4Life]

Can you point out where I said any of those things? In the first post on the subject I even said we we have a lot of things that need improvement. We can't have a serious conversation because you think anyone who doesn't agree with everything you think is burying their head in the sand.

not everything, lol, just those who think this team is well coached.

 

[CHfan1]

See here's the thing, I'm not sure when the stick broke besides it being early on for those 4 minutes, so it's fully possible that we were in our zone for a full minute before the stick broke. But given you've tried to be misleading about the whole situation why should I just believe you? I don't feel like it's worth my time to find a video of the shift to figure out, so I have no idea if you are telling the truth or just being misleading again. Which is why you shouldn't be misleading in the first place, it hurts any point you actually try to make.

And I would also point out that even a full minute stuck in your own zone is pretty common, we've done that to the opposition at times and we kind of suck. By itself it's pretty meaningless, and when you look at who was on the ice, it's 3 rookies, two of them defencemen who have a combined 15 NHL games (Or 13.5 at the time of the shift) and the other 2 guys were Anderson and Dvorak two vets everybody wants gone ASAP. Like the whole situation is kind of a nothing burger where the chances NYI generated were kind of meh. So it's basically a learning experience for the young guys on the importance of making sure the puck gets out when you have the opportunity.

Rewatching it here is the timeline.

Their shift starts at about 13:35 (left in the 2nd period). At 12:50 New York enters the zone. At 11:55 Kapanen stick breaks. At about 11:14 left Kapanen has a chance to clear but fails (without his stick). Montreal finally clears the zone around 9:52.

On the coaching I think MSL has been good at developing players but I also think they definitely need more structure. I don’t think the hybrid system they are using in the defensive zone is working very well. The shift above has happened far too often this season, although not as long in other cases, leading to far too many high danger scoring chances.

 

[Sorinth]

Rewatching it here is the timeline.

Their shift starts at about 13:35 (left in the 2nd period). At 12:50 New York enters the zone. At 11:55 Kapanen stick breaks. At about 11:14 left Kapanen has a chance to clear but fails (without his stick). Montreal finally clears the zone around 9:52.

Thanks for that, and so yeah highlights how misleading the whole we were hemmed in our zone for 4minutes claim was.

On the coaching I think MSL has been good at developing players but I also think they definitely need more structure. I don’t think the hybrid system they are using in the defensive zone is working very well. The shift above has happened far too often this season, although not as long in other cases, leading to far too many high danger scoring chances.

No doubt there are plenty of improvements we can make, but I think it's also something that is going to take time. I don't think we necessarily need a highly structured game plan where every player is following predefined routes but for sure we absolutely need the players to provide better support. Is it a structure issue or an accountability issue?

Without knowing what happens behind the scenes no way of knowing which it is, but both are the coaches responsibility so in some ways it doesn't matter, but in terms of next steps it does matter. While we were tanking MSL wasn't really holding anyone accountable for bad plays, not offering the right support, bad penalties, etc... and it made sense since that stuff shouldn't be the focus on a tanking team. This season we are arguably at a point where it does make sense to start holding players more accountable for that kind of stuff. But it's something that will take time to see the impact of, I didn't check out any of the post game interviews so not sure if Dach not being used in the shootout was addressed but as it was happening my first thought was that Dach was being benched for the penalty he took in OT. We will probably have to see over the next 15-20 games if MSL is in fact holding the players more accountable, and in turn how they react to that higher standard.

 

[Nevins]

Objectively, the Canadian has improved his team statistics at all levels: Power Play, Penality Kill, Shut Per Game, Hit , Giveaway, Takeaway. It is only on the faceoffs that it’s worse.But It is only 6 games

 

[1909]

Mario Tremblay deliberately alienated his best player. MSL has developed our best prospects and done a great job doing so.

That have zero in common.

And what about the TEAM structure ?

 

[HabsAddict]

Potentially interesting development...

I had my own company and also GM of a few decent size companies. If a supervisor or manager ignored a serious and blatant safety issue, I had no problem firing them....on the spot.

I suspended a supervisor for a week for storing filled lift truck propane tanks in a boiler room. My jaw dropped when I saw that....

Sooo....if X is not hurt and he knows Rempe is playing, a straight up goon who has no problem hurting players, if MSL keeps X out of the lineup and one of our players gets hurt, Marty would be fired on the spot.

 

[HabsAddict]

Guys...those who don't think Marty has a structure, wrong, he does, but it's stupid.

He wants players to play man on man until a bit inside the blue line then collapse into a zone defense.

It's stupid because players are ambivalent about supporting their mates along the boards 10 feet inside the blueline, thus losing possession battles....and then collapse into zone defense, prolonging us getting trapped inside our zone.

Just watch the games....I wasn't aware of it until the Pens game and then confirmed it in the Kings game.

Marty biggest issue is he doesn't have experience to know his players and systems limitation. He's learning on the job...and at our win/loss column.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And what about the TEAM structure ?

If you want to talk about team structure that’s fine. But don’t invoke Mario Tremblay and think you’ve made a point. You haven’t, they are complete opposite coaching styles. I wouldn’t want Tremblay anywhere near our young players.

Again, difficult to say on MSL because his teams are so young. How often do we see players who muff up plays they should make? It happens a lot and I’m not sure you can blame the coach for that.

There’s no doubt MSL could tighten things up and we could win more games. But the style he has right now allows younger players a little more offensive freedom. And for right now, I’m good with that.

Our key prospects have progressed since he’s taken over. To me, that’s the most important thing. I care more about about players developing than I am about the short term effects in the standings that would come if we implemented a more defensive trap style system.

Year three of a rebuild - it’s exactly what you’d expect. Young players breaking into the lineup, trying to establish themselves and making mistakes along the way. This is not a surprise.