Coaching Discussion: Jon Cooper - Part 2

[The Macho King]

Teddy Purcell on his L.A. story, going to Ireland, beers...

Alright this is amazing.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Teddy Purcell on his L.A. story, going to Ireland, beers...

Alright this is amazing.

Moneybags over here linking The Athletic.

 

[The Macho King]

Moneybags over here linking The Athletic.

 

[Hoek]

Some material for the Cooper haters in that one.

I've just been on the 90 day trial I started when all this virus crap started.

 

[These Are The Days]

Uhhhh... you sure that article is still the most amazing thing on this page now that you've posted this?

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I have defended Coop for a long time (and still believe he is a good coach). I have never piped into this thread, but after we inevitably lose to the Bruins in round 2 how can we not make a change? We would be the preferred destination among available coaches and a new voice seems needed.

With this great crop how can we strike out?

Babcock
Gallant
Laviolette

As much as Julien and Coop are great friends, can management afford not to make this move?

 

[These Are The Days]

Cooper getting fired is/would be a silver lining to us losing to Boston. The whole "we came out flat" remark by Johnson really has me irritated. It's what happens after years and years of a clearly laissez-faire coaching style where Cooper relies on the players to motivate themselves and police themselves. Like... I get it but I'm always left wondering much longer this is gonna work out.

The fact we are back to struggling with motivation again like it's 2015 scares the hell out of me.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Cooper getting fired is/would be a silver lining to us losing to Boston. The whole "we came out flat" remark by Johnson really has me irritated. It's what happens after years and years of a clearly laissez-faire coaching style where Cooper relies on the players to motivate themselves and police themselves. Like... I get it but I'm always left wondering much longer this is gonna work out.

The fact we are back to struggling with motivation again like it's 2015 scares the hell out of me.

Especially after three years of frustrating playoff exits. How the f*** are they not motivated and ready and take two periods to get into the game?

 

[VinikToWinIt]

I haven't done the analysis, but our game 1 record feels atrocious under Cooper. Feels like we're always playing from behind.

 

[Sky04]

I would take Gallant before Washington or one of the other teams snatch him up but we cross that bridge when we get there, still a long series/playoffs to go.

 

[These Are The Days]

Especially after three years of frustrating playoff exits. How the f*** are they not motivated and ready and take two periods to get into the game?

I'm conflicted on how to answer that. I believe players need to hold each other accountable and coaches shouldn't have to be full-time shrinks. It's why I rarely get mad when I don't see Cooper do the "rah rah rah!" on the bench. After all it was a speech by Shattenkirk that moved the room when we were down by 2 vs CBJ. A coach can give the same speech so many times. A player is different. But before a game coaches DO need to feel the pulse of a locker and act accordingly. I'm not so sure Cooper even does that.


There's a very big gray area in how hands on a coach needs to be and I think our locker room has changed too much since the Cup run that Cooper's approach is still working anymore.



Ultimately, I'm ready for a change

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I'm conflicted on how to answer that. I believe players need to hold each other accountable and coaches shouldn't have to be full-time shrinks. It's why I rarely get mad when I don't see Cooper do the "rah rah rah!" on the bench. After all it was a speech by Shattenkirk that moved the room when we were down by 2 vs CBJ. A coach can give the same speech so many times. A player is different. But before a game coaches DO need to feel the pulse of a locker and act accordingly. I'm not so sure Cooper even does that.


There's a very big gray area in how hands on a coach needs to be and I think our locker room has changed too much since the Cup run that Cooper's approach is still working anymore.



Ultimately, I'm ready for a change

the boys didn’t even play that well during the 3rd vs CBJ. It was more attributed to luck.

I’m ready for a change also. And I’m deflated putting all this time in just to get eliminated in the 2nd round.

Can Cooper please bench Kucherov ffs

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

I haven't done the analysis, but our game 1 record feels atrocious under Cooper. Feels like we're always playing from behind.

We're 5-9 in series openers under Cooper. Even worse, most of those series openers have been at home. Excluding this year because home isn't really "home", we're 2-7 in series opening games when we've had home-ice advantage. Even worse, the two wins came against the two weakest playoff teams we've faced over the years - 2016 Red Wings and 2018 Devils. So, when we've faced any teams tougher than that, and any time we've had home-ice beyond the first round of the playoffs, we've lost the first game. That's laughably awful. Constantly behind the 8-ball. Then you wonder why this team hasn't won anything of substance.

 

[Hint1k]

We're 5-9 in series openers under Cooper. Even worse, most of those series openers have been at home. Excluding this year because home isn't really "home", we're 2-7 in series opening games when we've had home-ice advantage. Even worse, the two wins came against the two weakest playoff teams we've faced over the years - 2016 Red Wings and 2018 Devils. So, when we've faced any teams tougher than that, and any time we've had home-ice beyond the first round of the playoffs, we've lost the first game. That's laughably awful. Constantly behind the 8-ball. Then you wonder why this team hasn't won anything of substance.

Tampa is also 2nd (after Pens) in playoff wins under Cooper. And 2nd (after Vegas) in points percentage. Which means Cooper is probably the best coach in the league in playoffs. NHL.com Stats

 

[These Are The Days]

Tampa is also 2nd (after Pens) in playoff wins under Cooper. And 2nd (after Vegas) in points percentage. Which means Cooper is probably the best coach in the league in playoffs. NHL.com Stats

He's had tremendous success, Just not when it matters most. We reaalllyyyy need to win a Cup. Until then all you've got is a "hard luck loser" narrative for Jon Cooper topped off with a personality that doesn't loan itself to likability amongst the fanbase. It's lasted so long that even if we DO pull it off this year, I still don't expect people's perception of him here to change for long. We'll call for his head again as soon as there's a struggle. But if you're JBB you gotta be out of your mind to fire a coach with a title, 2 ECF's and another SCF appearance unless you know for certain he's lost the locker room.

 

[Zeus Bojangles]

topped off with a personality that doesn't loan itself to likability amongst the fanbase.

I'm sorry but I just don't understand this point at all. Like, question the coaching decisions and the on-ice product if you will, but from my point of view Coop seems like a genuinely good-natured guy, with a sense of humor and no real ego - exactly the kind of person I typically like.

Also, are we going to give Cooper any credit for the successful switching of Kucherov to the left wing on the PP or is that a bridge too far for the anti-Cooper crowd here?

 

[CupsOverCash]

Coop deserves credit for the success. He also deserves credit for when we fail too. As do the players but he's not excused and its easier to make a coaching change than it is to trade players not buying in.

The problem with Cooper has always been winning that big important game or games that lead to winning the big trophy. We have been in position to get there and to get closer to winning it. We consistently have the same issues to get there. Scoring dries up and we look like a lazy wimpy version of our team and that is on coaching.

If we don't reach our goal this year and that becomes a reoccurring issue then its an easy decision. If we win then I think that's a great finish for a guy who's been here as long as he has. I wouldnt want anything more than to see that. Awesome to see people overcome adversity and finally solve a reoccurring problem. It does make you think about if the grass could be greener with someone else while we're trying to get there and struggle to do so.

If we win with this core and coop then that is the end of a long journey since 2014 that we have been on and would be amazing to see them accomplish their goal finally. Dont think anyone will be asking for coop to be fired until those expectations are broken again. Which could be for a while if we finish what they started. Let's get there first and hopefully they finally accomplish their goal!

 

[LTIR Trickery]

You guys know that its ridiculously hard to win back to back titles, let alone win every year, right? The end goal is a championship but theres a lot of shade for the guy who is quite easily the winningest coach in our history. Not always thrilled with the choices he makes on some nights, but this belief that there is a pile of individuals that are better just sitting around waiting is silly.

 

[CupsOverCash]

You guys know that its ridiculously hard to win back to back titles, let alone win every year, right? The end goal is a championship but theres a lot of shade for the guy who is quite easily the winningest coach in our history. Not always thrilled with the choices he makes on some nights, but this belief that there is a pile of individuals that are better just sitting around waiting is silly.

If we win this year the expectation to repeat will be there if we have a great team, however I dont think the expectation for Cooper to win it won't be there like it is now. I think most people understand how hard it is to repeat in any sport.

 

[These Are The Days]

I'm sorry but I just don't understand this point at all. Like, question the coaching decisions and the on-ice product if you will, but from my point of view Coop seems like a genuinely good-natured guy, with a sense of humor and no real ego - exactly the kind of person I typically like.

Also, are we going to give Cooper any credit for the successful switching of Kucherov to the left wing on the PP or is that a bridge too far for the anti-Cooper crowd here?

It's more a case of Cooper gets far more criticism than praise for 2 reasons.

1. He is inextricably linked to our playoff failures. Our guys are on the bench sulking and he's just standing there like a cow chewing cud. We get shutout and all he has to say is "Bounces didn't go our way boys. We'll get em next year" this has happened no less than 4 times. That's why I said his personality doesn't endear well to his popularity here. You could be forgiven for thinking he doesn't care.

2. He's gone deep 3 times. After making the SCF and ECF in back to back years the praise all but completely dried up because the only thing left for him was to win a Cup. And we always, always had great teams. By the time Brayden Point was a rookie we reached such a standard that anything short of a Stanley Cup might as well have been praising an operator for answering the phone and doing their job. -God is that even a thing anymore? Anyway back on topic

So more often than not you're gonna hear Cooper getting A LOT of criticism at a very disproportionate rate.

If we do win the Cup I doubt it helps his reputation but he will at least be called our most successful coach without argument. Odds are 2:1 we will then see a chicken or the egg debate on whether someone else would've done better and if our stacked lineups didn't make Cooper look better than he was

 

[Zeus Bojangles]

It's more a case of Cooper gets far more criticism than praise for 2 reasons.

1. He is inextricably linked to our playoff failures. Our guys are on the bench sulking and he's just standing there like a cow chewing cud. We get shutout and all he has to say is "Bounces didn't go our way boys. We'll get em next year" this has happened no less than 4 times. That's why I said his personality doesn't endear well to his popularity here. You could be forgiven for thinking he doesn't care.

2. He's gone deep 3 times. After making the SCF and ECF in back to back years the praise all but completely dried up because the only thing left for him was to win a Cup. And we always, always had great teams. By the time Brayden Point was a rookie we reached such a standard that anything short of a Stanley Cup might as well have been praising an operator for answering the phone and doing their job. -God is that even a thing anymore? Anyway back on topic

So more often than not you're gonna hear Cooper getting A LOT of criticism at a very disproportionate rate.

If we do win the Cup I doubt it helps his reputation but he will at least be called our most successful coach without argument. Odds are 2:1 we will then see a chicken or the egg debate on whether someone else would've done better and if our stacked lineups didn't make Cooper look better than he was

Okay, I get all that. I guess I read "likability" as if there's some kind of personality issue with Cooper when I don't think that's the case at all.

 

[These Are The Days]

Well Coop you've done well. Rarely if ever since the arrival of Brayden Point can I say you've been outcoached in a game vs Boston. The OT line shuffle was brilliant, our PP looks like it's back and our depth is completely outmatching the Bruins and being used effectively. And we're doing it without Stamkos and McDonagh both. This is probably the best series he's had behind the bench in his tenure and probably our best coaching display since the Caps series in 2010.

Hard to find anything to complain about man. If this is my last ever praise at least it'll be for good reason.

 

[DFC]

I'm sorry but I just don't understand this point at all. Like, question the coaching decisions and the on-ice product if you will, but from my point of view Coop seems like a genuinely good-natured guy, with a sense of humor and no real ego - exactly the kind of person I typically like.

Also, are we going to give Cooper any credit for the successful switching of Kucherov to the left wing on the PP or is that a bridge too far for the anti-Cooper crowd here?

People want him to scream, basically. I think Cooper has earned a lot of the criticism he gets, but this one doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Sky04]

People want a coach who's super emotional and will say stuff to the media, kinda like Bruce Cassidy who's down 3-1 this series.

 

[PJ817]

People want him to scream, basically. I think Cooper has earned a lot of the criticism he gets, but this one doesn't make sense to me.

No, I don't want him to scream but I WOULD like to see some modicum of emotion

Praise when they do well - even winning games "they're supposed to win" against a team that swept us last year; that horrific speech in the locker room after was deplorable... sure, we are on paper a better team but good Lord, praise the guys; fist bump, them, anything but blahblahablalbhalblblahalbahhh

Tirade when a player screws the pooch and costs the team - Kuch's attitude v Caps in 2018 and CBJ last year

Bishop said he NEVER saw Coop show any emotion. Ever. Milquetoast.

I know a few guys who played in the NHL - 2 are HOF - both have said they could never have played for a guy when they never knew where they stood with him for better OR for worse.

Even TROTZ gets judiciously fired up - positively and not so

If we win the Cup, I will say that I'm glad he made the changes he did for the series against the Bruins ... but I still don't like him as a coach for the Bolts ... but he DOES fit the Vinik/JBB mantra (and I don't think we'll win the cup this year - make me eat my words, please, please please....)