Coaching Discussion: Jon Cooper - Part 2

[DFC]

No, I don't want him to scream but I WOULD like to see some modicum of emotion

Praise when they do well - even winning games "they're supposed to win" against a team that swept us last year; that horrific speech in the locker room after was deplorable... sure, we are on paper a better team but good Lord, praise the guys; fist bump, them, anything but blahblahablalbhalblblahalbahhh

Tirade when a player screws the pooch and costs the team - Kuch's attitude v Caps in 2018 and CBJ last year

Bishop said he NEVER saw Coop show any emotion. Ever. Milquetoast.

I know a few guys who played in the NHL - 2 are HOF - both have said they could never have played for a guy when they never knew where they stood with him for better OR for worse.

Even TROTZ gets judiciously fired up - positively and not so

If we win the Cup, I will say that I'm glad he made the changes he did for the series against the Bruins ... but I still don't like him as a coach for the Bolts ... but he DOES fit the Vinik/JBB mantra (and I don't think we'll win the cup this year - make me eat my words, please, please please....)

I feel like the emotion would make fans feel better, because they want him to project their own feelings/opinions, but I don't buy for a second that the players have an issue with it. I think it would be a fair criticism to say he doesn't hold players accountable at times, but we really don't know if that's true behind the scenes.

 

[PJ817]

I feel like the emotion would make fans feel better, because they want him to project their own feelings/opinions, but I don't buy for a second that the players have an issue with it. I think it would be a fair criticism to say he doesn't hold players accountable at times, but we really don't know if that's true behind the scenes.

How many NHLers do you know? Bishop said it was hard ... other current players have said it was hard (google it, I don't have links).

You just never know where you stand with the guy because he's so smarmy, his ever present non-speech speeches that indicate that negative could be a blue jersey in the middle of a Tampa winter when the beaches are full of fish and you're left thinking "WTF did he just say???"

... until it's either you wear a "C" or an "A" or are traded

That wears on the players. The people I know ... they're old timers for sure but they have ALL said they could not have played for him ... the successful coaches - the ones with Cups - all have some sort of personality. Cooper is just bland

 

[DFC]

How many NHLers do you know? Bishop said it was hard ... other current players have said it was hard (google it, I don't have links).

You just never know where you stand with the guy because he's so smarmy, his ever present non-speech speeches that indicate that negative could be a blue jersey in the middle of a Tampa winter when the beaches are full of fish and you're left thinking "WTF did he just say???"

... until it's either you wear a "C" or an "A" or are traded

That wears on the players. The people I know ... they're old timers for sure but they have ALL said they could not have played for him ... the successful coaches - the ones with Cups - all have some sort of personality. Cooper is just bland

I've never seen a player talk negatively about Cooper. I could be wrong, and maybe it's out there, but I don't think that's a fair criticism of him. There are a lot of fair criticisms, but lack of emotion is a weird one. Plenty of great coaches were cold as ice.

 

[PJ817]

I've never seen a player talk negatively about Cooper. There are a lot of fair criticisms, but lack of emotion is a weird one. Plenty of great coaches were cold as ice.

Like I said, use google re: Bishop's comments. He wasn't exactly "Cooper sucks because he's unemotional" but you can read between the lines. NO active player is ever going to bash a coach unless it is 110% warranted (ala Babcock). Burning bridges in a very small league is unwise and enhances one's lack of ability to progress onto another team.

Name me one cold-as-ice coach who has won the cup. I can't think of one. Julien? Sullivan? Trotz? Berube? Sather? Demers? Lemaire? Keenan? Hitchcock? Lavy? Q? Babs? Torts?

ALL of them show some sort of emotion, not one of them is cold-as-ice ... there is something there... TOO emotional isn't good either (like Yeo, who hasn't won it; Babs won it because of the players, not him)

Good is fine - Cooper is fine as "good" - but seriously? GREAT gets a cup, not good. I don't think he's anywhere close to great.

 

[Zeus Bojangles]

Like I said, use google re: Bishop's comments. He wasn't exactly "Cooper sucks because he's unemotional" but you can read between the lines. NO active player is ever going to bash a coach unless it is 110% warranted (ala Babcock). Burning bridges in a very small league is unwise and enhances one's lack of ability to progress onto another team.

There is no such interview online that I could find. Either provide the source or this is just made-up BS, which frankly sounds like a more accurate description of your criticisms. I mean honestly, "I know some former NHLers and they told me all these things!" It's TMZ-esque rumormongering.

His lineups, his roster decisions, his game management, all fair game. The rest is just nonsense.

 

[These Are The Days]

A guy who just stands there like a lifeless zombie chewing gum is a win away from his 4th trip to the ECF in 7 full seasons with the same 9 dudes that were with us for the Cup run. If he was that unpopular, the team would've quit long ago.


We ALL have worries on how well he motivates the team. Even I have lately. It's just that none of us give a crap HOW he does it as long as he does it. We just want to win.

 

[PJ817]

There is no such interview online that I could find. Either provide the source or this is just made-up BS, which frankly sounds like a more accurate description of your criticisms. I mean honestly, "I know some former NHLers and they told me all these things!" It's TMZ-esque rumormongering.

So, because you were too lazy to dig around just to be able to prove I'm a liar or rumor monger, you just gave up and instead, devolved into name calling and such. Pathetic, really.

Because I think the coach sucks and couldn't light a fire in a dry CA forest with matches and lighter fluid, I must be lying. Got it.

I don't dwell in rumors. and I won't say who the players are because ... well, their privacy AND mine (as well as their wives and ex-wife and kids). I'm from MN; I went to UMN and UMD ... take it from there. Or don't. Don't care either way.

It was a column by either Joe Smith in the Athletic or Bryan Burns; came after the losses to CBJ last year. People were saying Cooper didn't light a fire under the team and Bishop commented that in all his years playing for the man, he never saw him get upset, not once; not even when the players deserved it.

Not one active player is going to come out strongly against a coach unless very much warranted, like I said, ala Babcock. No one.

 

[PJ817]

A guy who just stands there like a lifeless zombie chewing gum is a win away from his 4th trip to the ECF in 7 full seasons with the same 9 dudes that were with us for the Cup run. If he was that unpopular, the team would've quit long ago.


We ALL have worries on how well he motivates the team. Even I have lately. It's just that none of us give a crap HOW he does it as long as he does it. We just want to win.

I didn't say he was unpopular. I never said that once. Show me where I did. Because the truth is, Cooper IS very likable. I LIKE THE COACH... as a person, not as a coach. But the team DID quit on him last year and TBT, in 2016-17 as well; they also quit on him in 2018 with the Craps.

I want to WIN and DRIVE MY DAMN CAR WITH THE FLAGS FLYING FULL MAST THROUGH THE STATE, yelling at the top of my lungs, "EFFFFF YAH BAYBEEEE"

And I can't because gum chewer, well coifed, well mannered mannequin can't do squat with this team.

I so badly want to be wrong and think that he can coach well enough to a cup but for the last 7 years, he's proven, he cannot.

and I think if it's us v Isles, Trotz will have Cooper eating his used gum (again).

 

[Sky04]

So, because you were too lazy to dig around just to be able to prove I'm a liar or rumor monger, you just gave up and instead, devolved into name calling and such. Pathetic, really.

Because I think the coach sucks and couldn't light a fire in a dry CA forest with matches and lighter fluid, I must be lying. Got it.

I don't dwell in rumors. and I won't say who the players are because ... well, their privacy AND mine (as well as their wives and ex-wife and kids). I'm from MN; I went to UMN and UMD ... take it from there. Or don't. Don't care either way.

It was a column by either Joe Smith in the Athletic or Bryan Burns; came after the losses to CBJ last year. People were saying Cooper didn't light a fire under the team and Bishop commented that in all his years playing for the man, he never saw him get upset, not once; not even when the players deserved it.

Not one active player is going to come out strongly against a coach unless very much warranted, like I said, ala Babcock. No one.

You cited something, so go link it then? Unless you're lazy, or it's made up. I'm thinking the latter considering the amount of nonsense in your posts.

 

[DFC]

Like I said, use google re: Bishop's comments. He wasn't exactly "Cooper sucks because he's unemotional" but you can read between the lines. NO active player is ever going to bash a coach unless it is 110% warranted (ala Babcock). Burning bridges in a very small league is unwise and enhances one's lack of ability to progress onto another team.

Name me one cold-as-ice coach who has won the cup. I can't think of one. Julien? Sullivan? Trotz? Berube? Sather? Demers? Lemaire? Keenan? Hitchcock? Lavy? Q? Babs? Torts?

ALL of them show some sort of emotion, not one of them is cold-as-ice ... there is something there... TOO emotional isn't good either (like Yeo, who hasn't won it; Babs won it because of the players, not him)

Good is fine - Cooper is fine as "good" - but seriously? GREAT gets a cup, not good. I don't think he's anywhere close to great.

I don't think it's wise to read between the lines on player comments.

Cold as ice coach? Scotty Bowman. And players absolutely did hate playing for him. You don't even need to read between the lines.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I've never seen a player talk negatively about Cooper. I could be wrong, and maybe it's out there, but I don't think that's a fair criticism of him. There are a lot of fair criticisms, but lack of emotion is a weird one. Plenty of great coaches were cold as ice.

JT brown, Val Filppulla

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I don't think it's wise to read between the lines on player comments.

Cold as ice coach? Scotty Bowman. And players absolutely did hate playing for him. You don't even need to read between the lines.

The best quote about him was you hated him 364 days a year, and on the 365th you picked up your cup ring.

 

[Zeus Bojangles]

You cited something, so go link it then? Unless you're lazy, or it's made up. I'm thinking the latter considering the amount of nonsense in your posts.

This. You (@PJ817) made the accusation, the onus is on you to provide the source, otherwise nothing you say can be taken seriously.

 

[These Are The Days]

I don't think it's wise to read between the lines on player comments.

Cold as ice coach? Scotty Bowman. And players absolutely did hate playing for him. You don't even need to read between the lines.

I'll do another one. Fred Shero. Less so much ice cold and more like the biggest introvert you'd ever meet. Guy's pregame speeches were quotes on a chalkboard, left letters in player's lockers as opposed to talking to them and probably never did more than raise his voice when he DID talk to them. All total this guy won some absolutely ridiculous number like 7 titles in his entire coaching career and had some other ridiculous number like 12 title appearances. He is all the proof you need that you don't need to be "rah rah rah" to get the best out of your team. You simply need to be good at your job and the entire locker room will follow your lead.


Re: Bowman -didn't someone like Larry Robinson once say "We hate him 364 days a year and love him the day we win the Cup?" or am I thinking of another coach?

 

[Sky04]

If we wanna talk about bland coaches who are stuck in their ways, Darryl Sutter has 2 cups.

 

[Felonious Python]

I've mentioned him before on here, but Al Arbour.

“I’ve had a few players that played under Al and talked to them and they all talk about how he was demanding but he was a little bit of a father figure that you didn’t want to disappoint,” said Trotz. “He taught you the game correctly and he held you accountable to the game without making you feel small.”

Schwartz: Al Arbour Meant So Much To John Tonelli - NY Sports Day

 

[DFC]

As for us vs Trotz/isles, well, we took the cup champion caps to 7 games. And this islander team is not as good as they were. And we're better now than then.

 

[Sky04]

Yeah, was just going to say how is Trotz anymore of a threat than Torts was? Columbus actually swept us, we took the Caps to Game 7. I don't think they can be surprised by his system anymore, as long as they come in with a gameplan like they did against Columbus.

 

[DFC]

Yeah, was just going to say how is Trotz anymore of a threat than Torts was. Columbus actually swept us, we took the Caps to Game 7. I don't think they can be surprised by his system anymore, as long as they come in with a gameplan like they did against Columbus.

I think that shell + trap defense is a shock to teams without a ton of playoff experience, which is why Boston could get through it without too much trouble, but this Philly team, which hasn't gone overly deep in recent memory, is getting beat. The Leafs vs. CBJ.

Even the 2018 Caps struggled mightily with Torts, and that was while they had Trotz doing almost the same thing. It took us longer than it should have to figure out how to beat that kind of a team, but I no longer think we're an underdog against that style. We proved a lot in the CBJ series. We proved a lot in Game 1 alone.

 

[Major4Boarding]

JT brown, Val Filppulla

Not sure why JT was brought into this. Not aiming to devalue anything anyone has posted here, but since there's an absence of any links-to-quotes I dig some digging (took me 30 seconds because I recall this article) and here's something...

Brown will usually tweet out a day in advance of his next stream, all you need to do is look up his channel ( JTBrown 23). You don't need a Twitch.TV account to watch, only if you want to comment/chat. Brown often invites some in the stream to join his game. Otherwise, he'll answer questions as he plays. Fans will ask Brown everything from what team he wants to win the Stanley Cup, to his favorite video games and Tampa restaurants.

"The question I get the most is, 'Is (coach Jon) Cooper as calm and cool as he seems when he's doing interviews?" Brown said. What's his answer? "Always yes," Brown says, laughing.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Like, hes a lawyer, what do you expect?

Kicking trash cans and shit is for midget hockey.

 

[Felonious Python]

Like, hes a lawyer, what do you expect?

Kicking trash cans and shit is for midget hockey.

Coop just subpoenas them.

 

[These Are The Days]

Like, hes a lawyer, what do you expect?

Kicking trash cans and shit is for midget hockey.

So what you're saying this guy can't coach?

 

[LTIR Trickery]

So what you're saying this guy can't coach?

Thank god someone got the reference.

 

[These Are The Days]

Thank god someone got the reference.

Always got you fam.