Coach Discussion: Dan Bylsma

[joshjull]

This isn't debating if there is a system, but it's debating that it doesn't matter:

Thank you, poor way to describe it on my part.

Fair enough.

 

[brian_griffin]

Whenever a puck goes in, it is rewarded to the last player who touched it from the scoring team, not the one closest to the net. Think of how many times players shoot pucks that go off of other players. If it goes off an offensive player, he gets the goal for the tip-in. If it goes off the defensive player, the shooter gets the goal.

Doesn't the offensive player closest to the defender get credit for an own-goal (Other than flubs by the goalie)?

I saw the puck go off 2 Canucks, the second one kicked it in, so an own-goal, unless one deems the kick as not being possession by the defender.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I actually group coach discussion with GM discussion. Bylsma is on Tim Murray's transaction list, even if the Pegula's made the final call. Murray can also fire him.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Lindy Ruff was finishing his last season here the last time Bylsma coached a positive possession team.

He's an utterly dire coach and the more I look into his performance in Pittsburgh the more I believe we need to cut bait immediately.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Lindy Ruff was finishing his last season here the last time Bylsma coached a positive possession team.

He's an utterly dire coach and the more I look into his performance in Pittsburgh the more I believe we need to cut bait immediately.

I hate to sound so negative, but I've thought since January that this group isn't going anywhere until they find the right HC. It may take a very painful season for management to pull the trigger, but I'm for it if it means a long-term solution.

Hell, even if the team starts winning, I can't be confident in a Bylzzzma team getting to the SC finals.

 

[joshjull]

It's why I don't feel the need to complain about every single lineup/system issue that bugs me. There's gonna be people with 5000 posts of nothing but anti-Bylsma before he's finally fired. He just went .500 on a western Canada road trip with 2 lines and McCabe (even though he tried to break up 1 of those lines). He's going to have the full and he's going to have too strong of a roster to completely implode. We are Bylstuck until 2018.

Since I don't want to talk Bylsma, when can I start on Risto/Khulikov/Bogo's start to the season?

You kind of have to talk about Disco if you want to talk about their start to the season.

Our d-corp is best suited to being much more involved in the offensive attack than they currently are. They need to be more aggressive in joining the rush, starting the rush and taking the puck on the attack on their own. Last season and again this year thats not something that we do with our d-corp.

 

[ThunderD]

Doesn't the offensive player closest to the defender get credit for an own-goal (Other than flubs by the goalie)?

I saw the puck go off 2 Canucks, the second one kicked it in, so an own-goal, unless one deems the kick as not being possession by the defender.

Not true. A player can touch the puck, turn it over to the other team, have someone on his team commit a penalty so the goalie is pulled. Defensive team can make passes, end up by accident shooting it into their own empty net. It still gets awarded to the last offensive player to touch it who at that point is on the bench.

Lindy Ruff was finishing his last season here the last time Bylsma coached a positive possession team.

He's an utterly dire coach and the more I look into his performance in Pittsburgh the more I believe we need to cut bait immediately.

You guys have to think big picture on this. If we fire Bylsma immediately when he is missing Jack & Kane what qualty coach is going to want to take a job here?

 

[stokes84]

This isn't debating if there is a system, but it's debating that it doesn't matter:

Because they don't do the same thing game in and game out. It changes depending on game plan and opponent. I'm sorry, you guys harping on "the system" as if it's a singular constant just come across as people whining in order to whine.

 

[Sabre Dance]

You guys have to think big picture on this. If we fire Bylsma immediately when he is missing Jack & Kane what qualty coach is going to want to take a job here?

Coaches have been fired with winning records. Playoff coaches get fired. Firing a coach for losing, even with injuries happens all the time.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Because they don't do the same thing game in and game out. It changes depending on game plan and opponent. I'm sorry, you guys harping on "the system" as if it's a singular constant just come across as people whining in order to whine.

There are actually system coaches who don't really vary the gameplan depending on opponent because their scheme is weird and difficult to prepare against. Vigneault's Canucks are probably the best example - especially because they floundered in the playoffs once teams committed to chasing the Sedins more thoroughly. Disco used to be one too, though he's removed "get to our game" from his vocabulary.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Zip, I initially shared your premise when Disco was hired - that he would probably last three years, annoy the **** out of me with decisions on the margins and overall lack of adjustment, but also instill a system that leveraged the strengths of the roster, especially the **** ton of grinders, and generated regular season wins.

Either has yet to happen. This dude hasn't coached a 50% corsi team since 11-12. He's washed.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Crosby and Malkin almost single handedly won the cup for Pittsburgh that year. They wouldn't have won if those two hadn't played out of their minds for at least half the postseason and nearly all of the Finals.

and Chicago doesnt win a cup without Toews and Kane. I hate that arguement

 

[ThunderD]

Coaches have been fired with winning records. Playoff coaches get fired. Firing a coach for losing, even with injuries happens all the time.

Firing a coach just over a year in after he had a 50% improvement on a last place team and is only 4 games into his second season with his franchise player out and another top 6 forward out? Tell me when that has happened. Tell me if you would want to come here if you were an elite coach.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Firing a coach just over a year in after he had a 50% improvement on a last place team and is only 4 games into his second season with his franchise player out and another top 6 forward out? Tell me when that has happened. Tell me if you would want to come here if you were an elite coach.

Improvement over the tank years was pretty inevitable wasn't it? Firing 3 coaches during the tank years IMO is worse than firing Bylsma now.

 

[30Yonge]

Coaches get fired all the time

Melrose got 16 games before Tampa fired him.
Tochet then coached 148 games before being fired.
In five seasons, 2008-09 to 2012-13, the Lighting had four coaches.

Ottawa had four coaches over two seasons from 2007-2009

Dineen was let go after two seasons +12 games by Florida

Carlye canned after 2.5 seasons in Toronto

The Bruins fired Ftorek before his second season was over.
Then they had Sullivan for two years and Lewis for one.

Oates was axed after two seasons in Washington.
Johnston didn't finish his second season in Pittsburgh.

Maurice and Muller were let go after two full seasons in Carolina
though they had come in as replacements for partial seasons

Stevens let go after 2.25 seasons in Philly and Berube after 2.

In the elven years between Lemaire and DeBoer, The Devils made
ten coaching changes.

Columbus has had one coach - Richards - last three full seasons in
its 16 year history.

and that is just the Eastern Conference

 

[DJN21]

Melrose got 16 games before Tampa fired him.
Tochet then coached 148 games before being fired.
In five seasons, 2008-09 to 2012-13, the Lighting had four coaches.

Ottawa had four coaches over two seasons from 2007-2009

Dineen was let go after two seasons +12 games by Florida

Carlye canned after 2.5 seasons in Toronto

The Bruins fired Ftorek before his second season was over.
Then they had Sullivan for two years and Lewis for one.

Oates was axed after two seasons in Washington.
Johnston didn't finish his second season in Pittsburgh.

Maurice and Muller were let go after two full seasons in Carolina
though they had come in as replacements for partial seasons

Stevens let go after 2.25 seasons in Philly and Berube after 2.

In the elven years between Lemaire and DeBoer, The Devils made
ten coaching changes.

Columbus has had one coach - Richards - last three full seasons in
its 16 year history.

and that is just the Eastern Conference

Thank you sir.

 

[Icicle]

Firing a coach just over a year in after he had a 50% improvement on a last place team and is only 4 games into his second season with his franchise player out and another top 6 forward out? Tell me when that has happened. Tell me if you would want to come here if you were an elite coach.

compare the rosters...

 

[tsujimoto74]

Firing a coach just over a year in after he had a 50% improvement on a last place team and is only 4 games into his second season with his franchise player out and another top 6 forward out? Tell me when that has happened. Tell me if you would want to come here if you were an elite coach.

#1: rosters. World of difference in what Bylsma has to work with, even with injuries, and what Nolan/Rolston had. We could be missing a few more key player and still be giving Bylsma a much better roster than our 2013-15 coaches had.
#2: There aren't any "elite" NHL coaches not currently employed by NHL teams so that point is moot as hell. I'd be happy to have an average to above average coach here. Elite?? That ship sailed when we missed out on Babcock. Those guys aren't available all that often.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Let's say they fire Bylsma. I assume Terry Murray takes over on an interim basis. Lambert is the other option, but not very appealing.

You're not going to get a good coach to take over midseason, unless someone gets stupidly fired by another team. So the question is, is a guy like Murray better for this season than Bylsma? Would he implement a different system? If so, how long will it take to install, given no training camp or preseason? I don't know enough about his previous tenure with the Kings to make any sort of judgment about him tactically.

 

[ThunderD]

compare the rosters...

Perception is reality. If he gets fired after a big improvement the media isn't going to talk about the rosters. It still doesn't change the fact that he is currently without his franchise player. That and none of this is going to happen after 4 games into the season. He is going to get at least 20 games before anything would happen.

 

[Aladyyn]

Murray and Bylsma both said that injuries are not an excuse. If the team plays like ****, Bylsma will be held responsible.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Let's say they fire Bylsma. I assume Terry Murray takes over on an interim basis. Lambert is the other option, but not very appealing.

You're not going to get a good coach to take over midseason, unless someone gets stupidly fired by another team. So the question is, is a guy like Murray better for this season than Bylsma? Would he implement a different system? If so, how long will it take to install, given no training camp or preseason? I don't know enough about his previous tenure with the Kings to make any sort of judgment about him tactically.

Remember Tim Murray said we were doing something different then other teams. What we were doing was having Dan Lambert learn the system we wanted to run in Buffalo and then implement it in Rochester so it's a smooth transition to the NHL.

People complaining about the system while the GM set up our whole organization to learn one system. So do we fire Bylsma and Lambert at the same time?

If Tim Murray disliked the system I highly doubt he would have Rochester learning the same system. This disaster is all by Tim Murray's design.

"This is exactly what I was talking about," Murray said Monday evening. "Dan spent the year with the big club; he knows how we want to play, he knows the structure and system. I'm happy with how things worked out."

http://www.democratandchronicle.com...an-lambert-taking-over-amerks-coach/84457890/

 

[SabresFan26]

Remember Tim Murray said we were doing something different then other teams. What we were doing was having Dan Lambert learn the system we wanted to run in Buffalo and then implement it in Rochester so it's a smooth transition to the NHL.

People complaining about the system while the GM set up our whole organization to learn one system. So do we fire Bylsma and Lambert at the same time?

If Tim Murray disliked the system I highly doubt he would have Rochester learning the same system. This disaster is all by Tim Murray's design.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com...an-lambert-taking-over-amerks-coach/84457890/

I agree with you to an extent. Although I think Murray has earned another year or two to see his vision carried out, is this how he wanted to play all along? Is Dan Bylsma's system what Murray wanted. He may be responsible and it is similar to his teams in Ottawa. I remember years ago I wanted to hire Jon Cooper when he was in Norfolk/Syracuse. I'd still love to get Kevin Dineen from Chicago.

 

[ZZamboni]

I can see Byslma getting canned if he doesn't wise up and turn things around before or at the end of the season. But what knee-jerk fan wants Murray gone now?!?!

Jiminy Christmas

 

[Aladyyn]

I can see Byslma getting canned if he doesn't wise up and turn things around before or at the end of the season. But what knee-jerk fan wants Murray gone now?!?!

Jiminy Christmas

Some people are mad at Murray for not being patient while not exactly having that virtue themselves