Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[Patagonia]

Perfect, no trade then.

Giroux to Calgary for Coronato/Zary/Pelletier and Monahan.

Done. CG approves the NMC in the deal.

AVs can keep their prospects. Team still needs help, it’s not like the AVs are 1st overall.

 

[JoemAvs]

1. Giroux's age is irrelevant because he's a rental
2. Being a rental often increases value due to no $ commitment beyond this year
3. Giroux's NMC is being talked about as if his list is 1-2 teams. For all we know, he'd accept a trade to 10 teams.

Just needs to be said there's an enormous slant going on when speaking about Giroux - as if Philly shouldn't be compensated properly for a top deadline player just because of this this and this (which aren't that big of a deal. The NMC is the only thing of relevance).

NMC simply prevents a massive bidding war on deadline day which is how usually these absurd returns like Foligno for a 1st +++, Kuemper for a 1st +++ or to a lesser extent I guess Risto to the Flyers last offseason tend to happen. Atleast it makes it way less likely and gives the player/agent a say in it. I assume Giroux wants to win a ring. There are not that many teams that realistically are in the mix for that. Certainly not 10.

I also disagree when it comes to age and that rental status increases value. Giroux age makes it unlikely that this is a scenario where you basically have a test run for the rest of the playoffs and then if hopefully things mesh you pay him to be part of your teams future. Teams tend to pay extra for that IMO.

Rental status also limits suitors to only contending or atleast win-now teams and 1 run with a player is simply only worth so much no matter how good that player is.
The treshold for that is usually around a 1st + a decent but not top tier prospect. Thats also what I believe is the higher end of what Giroux could potentially fetch depending on how he uses his NMC and how the market develops before the deadline.

I am firmly in the "I hope this doesn't happen" camp so I don't think we really have to argue too much about it. If it does happen, odds are both of us will hate it anyways.

 

[Muffin]

NMC simply prevents a massive bidding war on deadline day which is how usually these absurd returns like Foligno for a 1st +++, Kuemper for a 1st +++ or to a lesser extent I guess Risto to the Flyers last offseason tend to happen. Atleast it makes it way less likely and gives the player/agent a say in it. I assume Giroux wants to win a ring. There are not that many teams that realistically are in the mix for that. Certainly not 10.

I also disagree when it comes to age and that rental status increases value. Giroux age makes it unlikely that this is a scenario where you basically have a test run for the rest of the playoffs and then if hopefully things mesh you pay him to be part of your teams future. Teams tend to pay extra for that IMO.

Rental status also limits suitors to only contending or atleast win-now teams and 1 run with a player is simply only worth so much no matter how good that player is.
The treshold for that is usually around a 1st + a decent but not top tier prospect. Thats also what I believe is the higher end of what Giroux could potentially fetch depending on how he uses his NMC and how the market develops before the deadline.

I am firmly in the "I hope this doesn't happen" camp so I don't think we really have to argue too much about it. If it does happen, odds are both of us will hate it anyways.

Giroux is absolutely a luxury in Colorado, the 2nd highest scoring team in the league doesn’t need help up front. I rather they use the assets to get a legit top 4 defenseman.

Having one of Johnson, Johnson or Murray in the top 4 is unacceptable.

 

[TheKingPin]

Giroux is absolutely a luxury in Colorado, the 2nd highest scoring team in the league doesn’t need help up front. I rather they use the assets to get a legit top 4 defenseman.

Having one of Johnson, Johnson or Murray in the top 4 is unacceptable.

I wonder if Sakic wants Giroux bc he’s a great leader and competitive given the early exits. Don’t know if that is how things are seen in Colorado? Plus with Kadri demonstrating how important depth is. I could see Giroux being a 80 pt player still in Colorado.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I haven’t seen any of them play but both Barron and Helleson sound like they have read flags. I think Behrens sounds like the better get with a 1st and another prospect like Foudy.

I mean what prospects that have 0 flags get traded ever?

 

[captainpaxil]

I have an odd feeling it will be Byram. Only because he would fit the flyer mold if his concussion issues continue and he never materializes.

 

[TheKingPin]

I mean what prospects that have 0 flags get traded ever?

From what I have read he lacks hockey sense. Has tools, but does not know how to use them. Sounds like other failed Dmen to me. Obviously has potential to figure it out.

 

[StoneHands]

Totally agree Compher not a need. But I am perfectly fine with a first line of Couturier, Atkinson, Farabee.

Lindblom was projecting as a 2nd liner because of his play in SHL, AHL and 17 goals 1st year NHL. Now he is bottom 6.
Nolan Patrick was also at least a 2nd liner.
Both got derailed.
Creates a high-end talent hole now that Frost, Foerster, Allison, Brink, O’Brien all early picks must fill.
So Konecny is alone on 2nd line playing with 3rd-4th liners.

Giroux wont return a 2nd liner anyway. Get 2 prospects who could.

This is all true if the Flyers wants to simply go back to being a fringe playoff team. I like Farabee's future a lot and I'm a fan of Atkinson but a team with those two centered by Couturier as your top line isn't going to make a splash in the playoffs when so many top teams have multiple PPG or near PPG players on their top lines.

As for Patrick, I know he was projected to be a top 6 player but he was never close to that.

I'm just tired of fielding a team with fringe players on every line. Farabee and Atkinson CAN play on a top line but they wouldn't on a contender. Hayes and JVR CAN play on a 2nd line but not on a contender. Risto and Braun CAN play 21 minutes a game but it's not a winning strategy.

For so long this team has had a logjam of players playing a line up from where they should and it's showning.

 

[FlyguyOX]

This is all true if the Flyers wants to simply go back to being a fringe playoff team. I like Farabee's future a lot and I'm a fan of Atkinson but a team with those two centered by Couturier as your top line isn't going to make a splash in the playoffs when so many top teams have multiple PPG or near PPG players on their top lines.

As for Patrick, I know he was projected to be a top 6 player but he was never close to that.

I'm just tired of fielding a team with fringe players on every line. Farabee and Atkinson CAN play on a top line but they wouldn't on a contender. Hayes and JVR CAN play on a 2nd line but not on a contender. Risto and Braun CAN play 21 minutes a game but it's not a winning strategy.

For so long this team has had a logjam of players playing a line up from where they should and it's showning.

Yup. The rebuild only ended up with middle 6 players. It was a failure.

 

[The Abusement Park]

From what I have read he lacks hockey sense. Has tools, but does not know how to use them. Sounds like other failed Dmen to me. Obviously has potential to figure it out.

Who Barron? I think Barrons hockey sense is fine. I don’t think he’s ever going to be a shutdown dman but the chances he becomes a good two way dman are solid.

 

[lionsDen]

I have an odd feeling it will be Byram. Only because he would fit the flyer mold if his concussion issues continue and he never materializes.

Remind me not to ask you for stock advice, byram is more coveted then newhook. If they ain’t moving newhook they aren’t gonna move byram. Take it to the bank

 

[EastVillageBlues]

I have an odd feeling it will be Byram. Only because he would fit the flyer mold if his concussion issues continue and he never materializes.

Yeah, that would, although if he was available, that means Sackic regards him as being expendable, so the health issue must be pretty serious.

I would target Newhook, if I was the Flyers.

 

[LegionOfGloom]

I've been one of the more vocal people in this thread about not giving up too much for a rental like Giroux, and I only have 4 guys on my list of prospects I'd rather not trade if we don't have to. Keeping Barron and Helleson gives us 2 pretty decent chances to replace EJ on the 2nd pairing (one of the team needs), Olausson is our 2021 pick (and maybe our last 1st round caliber prospect for a little while) and could possibly be our 2LW in the near future (another need if/when Burakovsky walks in UFA), and Annunen is our only even remotely decent goalie prospect and doesn't have any value anyway.

I also don't necessarily see why adding Giroux to the roster is worth giving up one of these guys. He's a really good player, but he's also a rental that barely moves the needle on our chances to win the Cup, because there's so many things that could potentially go wrong and cause us to lose. Giving up almost ready, potentially useful pieces for a rental that doesn't really address a need isn't going to help keep the Avs a contender for the next 10+ years.

And that's the problem. Flyers fans are not going to be interested in a package centered with busts like Bowers or Jost or nothing prospects like Ranta. You have to give to get and taking your top four prospects off the table isn't realistic.

 

[McJedi]

Giroux is absolutely a luxury in Colorado, the 2nd highest scoring team in the league doesn’t need help up front. I rather they use the assets to get a legit top 4 defenseman.

Having one of Johnson, Johnson or Murray in the top 4 is unacceptable.

If the Avs are going all in, forget Giroux and call the Ducks about Lindholm.

 

[McJedi]

Yeah, that would, although if he was available, that means Sackic regards him as being expendable, so the health issue must be pretty serious.

I would target Newhook, if I was the Flyers.

And Sakic will laugh and say no, that’s crazy talk.

But here is Matt Steinberg and our 2023 1st. Go draft your own.

Avs need a D-man way more than Giroux anyway.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

And that's the problem. Flyers fans are not going to be interested in a package centered with busts like Bowers or Jost or nothing prospects like Ranta. You have to give to get and taking your top four prospects off the table isn't realistic.

If it's not realistic, then feel free to trade him somewhere else and get the best return possible. I have no problem with the Avs being outbid in this process.

 

[AvsGuy]

And that's the problem. Flyers fans are not going to be interested in a package centered with busts like Bowers or Jost or nothing prospects like Ranta. You have to give to get and taking your top four prospects off the table isn't realistic.

Yeah if Colorado is serious about Giroux I would assume one of Barron or Helleson is in play. I think its too early for Avs to trade either Olausson or Annunen, but both Barron/Helleson should appeal to Philly from a prospect/value standpoint

We're in a good roster position to trade a young defender, but I can promise it won't be Byram

 

[Grigowski]

Byram?

You dont trade a young player suffering with post concussion issues and who takes his time away from hockey....PERIOD!

Sakic wont do that. Not even think about such a classless move.

Barron or Helleson. If the Flyers can get one of them, Giroux is on his way to Denver.

 

[pockets]

Byram?

You dont trade a young player suffering with post concussion issues and who takes his time away from hockey....PERIOD!

Sakic wont do that. Not even think about such a classless move.

Barron or Helleson. If the Flyers can get one of them, Giroux is on his way to Denver.

You hit the nail directly on the head here.

Hypothetically though, even if he were perfectly healthy, Byram would be that much more untouchable. Before his post-concussion issues this season he was one of the Avs top 3 D playing on an ELC. The fact that anyone could think that’s an appropriate cost for a 34 year old pending UFA is absurd.

 

[LokiDog]

A lot of people completely missed that Byram joke.

 

[flyfysher]

A lot of people completely missed that Byram joke.

Sorry but I don’t think post-concussion symptoms are a laughing matter even though I think you mean well. Avs have seen players handicapped by concussions over the years. Mueller, Hishon, Timmins and Byram.

 

[LokiDog]

Sorry but I don’t think post-concussion symptoms are a laughing matter even though I think you mean well. Avs have seen players handicapped by concussions over the years. Mueller, Hishon, Timmins and Byram.

I didn’t make the joke. And I’m not saying they are or aren’t. But people responded to it strictly based on value of the player when it was pretty clearly nothing more than a crack about Patrick. No big deal.

Flyers I imagine overall share similar sentiments with Lindros, Patrick, Kapanen, etc.

 

[Rebels57]

I didn’t make the joke. And I’m not saying they are or aren’t. But people responded to it strictly based on value of the player when it was pretty clearly nothing more than a crack about Patrick. No big deal.

Flyers I imagine overall share similar sentiments with Lindros, Patrick, Kapanen, etc.

Primeau and Pronger's careers both ended in Flyers jerseys due to concussions as well.

 

[Joe Sakic]

I’m fine with some of the names involved but I personally don’t think Jost / JTC / Kaut should be “main” pieces in a deal.

Lol I feel you brother, they suck =(

 

[TheKingPin]

Who Barron? I think Barrons hockey sense is fine. I don’t think he’s ever going to be a shutdown dman but the chances he becomes a good two way dman are solid.

Yes, Barron. Sounds as though he will be a low reach -5-6 dman. Those are abundant. We have Sanheim, Ellis, York, Zamula, Provovov longterm right now. We could use RHD, but still not trying to go for a guy with what I have heard so far. Haven’t seen him play though honestly. Personally, I would go for guys that could replace those 5. Don’t see Barron there.