Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[pockets]

One also needs to take into account that Av’s fans believe ALL of their prospects will be 1st line/pair players and everyone but them undervalues them. Adding a good forward helps their chances, but until they sure up goaltending, they’ll be a 2nd round out.

Why do they need to sure up their goaltending? Kuemper started slow but has been a top 5 goalie since the beginning of Dec. 15-0-2, .934 S% and 2.01 GAA

Some of shit that’s being made up in this thread is ridiculous…

 

[SnS]

We know Briere was also scouting the Eagles where Barron and Ranta play, but this is the second time Friedman has brought up Helleson as a guy Philly is specifically interested in.

I’m fine with some of the names involved but I personally don’t think Jost / JTC / Kaut should be “main” pieces in a deal.

 

[Hasbro]

I’m fine with some of the names involved but I personally don’t think Jost / JTC / Kaut should be “main” pieces in a deal.

Everyone in Colorado agrees, but we can hope.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

One also needs to take into account that Av’s fans believe ALL of their prospects will be 1st line/pair players and everyone but them undervalues them. Adding a good forward helps their chances, but until they sure up goaltending, they’ll be a 2nd round out.

posts like this are thr best part of the main board threads.

 

[Cypher]

One also needs to take into account that Av’s fans believe ALL of their prospects will be 1st line/pair players and everyone but them undervalues them. Adding a good forward helps their chances, but until they sure up goaltending, they’ll be a 2nd round out.

Kuemper T10th SV%, 9th GAA, T4th SO
Francouz T10th SV%, T10th GAA, T10th SO

But go on

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

One also needs to take into account that Av’s fans believe ALL of their prospects will be 1st line/pair players and everyone but them undervalues them. Adding a good forward helps their chances, but until they sure up goaltending, they’ll be a 2nd round out.

It could also be that the Avs fans know that the team is going to be up against the cap for foreseeable future, and think that having high talent prospects on ELCs who can potentially outperform their cap hit and become long(er) term pieces has a good chance to yield better results than overpaying in UFA, and is kind of the whole point of having a functioning prospect pool for the first time since the franchise moved to Denver. Basically, why trade our best prospects away for rental when adding our best prospects to the roster is a better long term choice for a cap strapped team.

 

[Grigowski]

Prepare to lose either Barron or Helleson if we get Claude.

 

[forsbergavs32]

I’m fine with some of the names involved but I personally don’t think Jost / JTC / Kaut should be “main” pieces in a deal.

We’ll give you Kaut and a 2nd to take Compher. Please?

 

[LegionOfGloom]

It could also be that the Avs fans know that the team is going to be up against the cap for foreseeable future, and think that having high talent prospects on ELCs who can potentially outperform their cap hit and become long(er) term pieces has a good chance to yield better results than overpaying in UFA, and is kind of the whole point of having a functioning prospect pool for the first time since the franchise moved to Denver. Basically, why trade our best prospects away for rental when adding our best prospects to the roster is a better long term choice for a cap strapped team.

We understand not wanting to trade your best prospects. What is exhausting is that Avs fans label pretty much every single player in their system as one of these best prospects.

 

[Ararana]

Friedman says the Flyers would prefer a prospect that could play in their NHL roster next year and, due to this, the Giroux trade might not require a first round pick which would help Colorado close the deal. He spit balls maybe an NHL ready prospect and a player or two prospects.

Avs prospects that are on the cusp of breaking into the NHL: Barron, Helleson, Kaut
Avs prospects that need more development time: Olausson, Ranta, Behrens

It really does sound like this trade, if he goes to Colorado, will come down to Barron vs Helleson. Two very different defensemen.

 

[TheKingPin]

Friedman says the Flyers would prefer a prospect that could play in their NHL roster next year and, due to this, the Giroux trade might not require a first round pick which would help Colorado close the deal. He spit balls maybe an NHL ready prospect and a player or two prospects.

Avs prospects that are on the cusp of breaking into the NHL: Barron, Helleson, Kaut
Avs prospects that need more development time: Olausson, Ranta, Behrens

It really does sound like this trade, if he goes to Colorado, will come down to Barron vs Helleson. Two very different defensemen.

Thanks for the post and info.

This is so painfully predictable. Happy for Avs fans, they should get a great player for what amounts to no loss.

 

[Ararana]

Thanks for the post and info.

This is so painfully predictable. Happy for Avs fans, they should get a great player for what amounts to no loss.

No loss to the NHL roster, outside of probably losing Jost or Compher for cap reasons.

But Barron and Helleson are two pretty damn good prospects. I believe both have a decent shot at becoming middle pairing defensemen in the NHL. Barron plays more of a two way game, puck movement and rushes up the ice. Helleson is a defensive defenseman with nasty son of a bitch factor. There's been a little bit of a fracturing on the Avs board over which one we'd rather give up. We're fortunate to have both in our pipe line with Behrens still a little ways away.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I’m fine with some of the names involved but I personally don’t think Jost / JTC / Kaut should be “main” pieces in a deal.

JTC/Jost wouldn’t be the main pieces in a deal? But they’re necessary to keep the Avs cap compliant.

 

[Pengwins]

Colorado should not give up a lot for Giroux. He's one of the most overrated players of all time

 

[TheKingPin]

No loss to the NHL roster, outside of probably losing Jost or Compher for cap reasons.

But Barron and Helleson are two pretty damn good prospects. I believe both have a decent shot at becoming middle pairing defensemen in the NHL. Barron plays more of a two way game, puck movement and rushes up the ice. Helleson is a defensive defenseman with nasty son of a bitch factor. There's been a little bit of a fracturing on the Avs board over which one we'd rather give up. We're fortunate to have both in our pipe line with Behrens still a little ways away.

I haven’t seen any of them play but both Barron and Helleson sound like they have read flags. I think Behrens sounds like the better get with a 1st and another prospect like Foudy.

 

[TheKingPin]

Colorado should not give up a lot for Giroux. He's one of the most overrated players of all time

Colorado need only see this post to know the impact of Giroux. Pens fans are still bitter over getting eliminated a decade ago and “The Hit” by Giroux.

 

[Papa Francouz]

Colorado should not give up a lot for Giroux. He's one of the most overrated players of all time

 

[Patagonia]

Thanks for the post and info.

This is so painfully predictable. Happy for Avs fans, they should get a great player for what amounts to no loss.

It's close on which player Barron vs Helleson is actually better. Each of the players fills a particular need for the team.

AVs are built on offense using strong skating and passing - Barron. It needs more defensive players with size and toughness - Helleson. I believe Barron has the greater upside, although, Helleson has incredibly grown and would be a 1st rounder in a redraft.

Flyers need a RHD. Barron could be the player they expected from Risto. Helleson is the toughness and was York's USHL defensive partner. Choosing the better fit for the Flyers it's likely Helleson.

 

[John Mandalorian]

We understand not wanting to trade your best prospects. What is exhausting is that Avs fans label pretty much every single player in their system as one of these best prospects.

This is simply not true. Barron is probably the top prospect with Helleson being in the mix also. Avs fans have more or less accepted that there's a strong chance Barron or Helleson would be a part of this. It's also that RD is one of the more coveted positions and it's also where the Avs have the most depth in the prospect pool.

Another thing you should keep in mind, with Makar on the roster, we're not really relying on either to be part of a top pairing. So if our enthusiasm for them seems less than what you hope, that's probably why. 5 years ago, we would have more expressively joyful about having each of them in the pipeline.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

It could also be that the Avs fans know that the team is going to be up against the cap for foreseeable future, and think that having high talent prospects on ELCs who can potentially outperform their cap hit and become long(er) term pieces has a good chance to yield better results than overpaying in UFA, and is kind of the whole point of having a functioning prospect pool for the first time since the franchise moved to Denver. Basically, why trade our best prospects away for rental when adding our best prospects to the roster is a better long term choice for a cap strapped team.

Perfect, no trade then.

Giroux to Calgary for Coronato/Zary/Pelletier and Monahan.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Colorado should not give up a lot for Giroux. He's one of the most overrated players of all time

 

[FlyguyOX]

Helleson is realistically a #5 D-man when taking into account upside/risk. If the deal centers around that then goodness gracious.

 

[JoemAvs]

Perfect, no trade then.

Giroux to Calgary for Coronato/Zary/Pelletier and Monahan.

As an Avs fan that is also an Eagles fan ( so I have a bit of a soft spot for the Flyers) that would be absolutely perfect.
I don't think Giroux to the Avs is a great idea anyways. Hope that falls apart somehow before the deadline.

That said. Giroux is 34, has a NMC and is a rental. I know what he has meant to the Flyers and Flyers fans but his value right now is not that high realistically. Atleast not higher than the usual rental return we see on deadline day.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

We understand not wanting to trade your best prospects. What is exhausting is that Avs fans label pretty much every single player in their system as one of these best prospects.

I've been one of the more vocal people in this thread about not giving up too much for a rental like Giroux, and I only have 4 guys on my list of prospects I'd rather not trade if we don't have to. Keeping Barron and Helleson gives us 2 pretty decent chances to replace EJ on the 2nd pairing (one of the team needs), Olausson is our 2021 pick (and maybe our last 1st round caliber prospect for a little while) and could possibly be our 2LW in the near future (another need if/when Burakovsky walks in UFA), and Annunen is our only even remotely decent goalie prospect and doesn't have any value anyway.

I also don't necessarily see why adding Giroux to the roster is worth giving up one of these guys. He's a really good player, but he's also a rental that barely moves the needle on our chances to win the Cup, because there's so many things that could potentially go wrong and cause us to lose. Giving up almost ready, potentially useful pieces for a rental that doesn't really address a need isn't going to help keep the Avs a contender for the next 10+ years.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

As an Avs fan that is also an Eagles fan ( so I have a bit of a soft spot for the Flyers) that would be absolutely perfect.
I don't think Giroux to the Avs is a great idea anyways. Hope that falls apart somehow before the deadline.

That said. Giroux is 34, has a NMC and is a rental. I know what he has meant to the Flyers and Flyers fans but his value right now is not that high realistically. Atleast not higher than the usual rental return we see on deadline day.

1. Giroux's age is irrelevant because he's a rental
2. Being a rental often increases value due to no $ commitment beyond this year
3. Giroux's NMC is being talked about as if his list is 1-2 teams. For all we know, he'd accept a trade to 10 teams.

Just needs to be said there's an enormous slant going on when speaking about Giroux - as if Philly shouldn't be compensated properly for a top deadline player just because of this this and this (which aren't that big of a deal. The NMC is the only thing of relevance).

I get Giroux not being worth X, but this effort to make Giroux into a "meh" addition with "meh" value feels so absurd. He's going to be the best rental player at the deadline and you're gonna have to pay something of real value to acquire him.