Confirmed with Link: Christian Ehrhoff signs with Penguins (1 Year/$4 Million)

[WVP]

I think you are looking at it the wrong way, even if of course I would also much prefer having Martin on the team over Scuderi.

But looking at the cap right now, it is very difficult to do anything significant on the top 6, and we have just a few ways to open room. Scuderi opens room if he is dealt for a pick and in that case we can get an UFA with that money.

Martin would arguably be the best defenseman on the market if he had been an UFA, and with him you can not only open up cap-room, you could also realistically get a significant asset in return, and this becomes more interesting with the news/strong rumors that Martin will eventually want to try out free agency next season.

When it comes to "they don't make a word for how dumb that would be", what we should be looking at is the combined return Shero's tactics got us for Niskanen, Orpik, Michalek, Engelland, Strait and Joe Morrow.... this while also spending two 2nd rounders at the deadline on missfit Murray who we did not extend. This is the most monumentally spastic way of not profiting on having build a strong D-pipeline.

Hence, when looking at Martin now... and realising that Scuderi is at least an asset for two more years (Brad Stuart returned a 2nd and a 6th for San Jose yesterday).... you also have to consider if we can really let another top defenseman go for nothing next season. For me.... if there are good deals out there for Martin.... I say we gotta listen. Otherwise.... sure, get rid of Scuds salary to create some room.

Exactly. Love Martin but you have to listen especially if the return is there and the vibe is he wants to go elsewhere next summer. I think I'd rather push Scuderi out now and try to extend Ehrhoff at some point.

Without Scuderi, our D depth is still awesome:

1. Letang
2. Martin
3. Ehrhoff
4. Maatta
5. Despres
6. Bortuzzo
7. Dumoulin
8. Harrington
9. Samuelsson
10. Pouliot

1-4 is a great top four. 5-9 are all ready for NHL time and they've said they want to play these guys. I see zero need for Scuderi now or in the future, though I think he will be better this season.

I am unsure if we have a cup caliber defense if we move Martin.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

Exactly. Love Martin but you have to listen especially if the return is there and the vibe is he wants to go elsewhere next summer. I think I'd rather push Scuderi out now and try to extend Ehrhoff at some point.

I definitely think we could afford to sign Ehrloff for some term, if he wants to stay here AND we purge all of the Dupuis/Scuderi type contracts, and trade Martin.

If that happens, he fits even better than Martin did.

 

[td_ice]

I think you are looking at it the wrong way, even if of course I would also much prefer having Martin on the team over Scuderi.

But looking at the cap right now, it is very difficult to do anything significant on the top 6, and we have just a few ways to open room. Scuderi opens room if he is dealt for a pick and in that case we can get an UFA with that money.

Martin would arguably be the best defenseman on the market if he had been an UFA, and with him you can not only open up cap-room, you could also realistically get a significant asset in return, and this becomes more interesting with the news/strong rumors that Martin will eventually want to try out free agency next season.

When it comes to "they don't make a word for how dumb that would be", what we should be looking at is the combined return Shero's tactics got us for Niskanen, Orpik, Michalek, Engelland, Strait and Joe Morrow.... this while also spending two 2nd rounders at the deadline on missfit Murray who we did not extend. This is the most monumentally spastic way of not profiting on having build a strong D-pipeline.

Hence, when looking at Martin now... and realising that Scuderi is at least an asset for two more years (Brad Stuart returned a 2nd and a 6th for San Jose yesterday).... you also have to consider if we can really let another top defenseman go for nothing next season. For me.... if there are good deals out there for Martin.... I say we gotta listen. Otherwise.... sure, get rid of Scuds salary to create some room.

Great post TR.

 

[iFishyHD]

I love this signing. Its gives us so many options.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Yeah, this is a great signing. Excellent value, and if anything, it's a bridge signing so Pouliot, Dumoulin and Harrington can have more development.

Ehrhoff gets a chance to play on a dynamic offense and put up points to cash in next summer, and we don't have to rush our younger defensemen (besides Despres, he's obviously ready).

 

[Mister Hockey]

I think you are looking at it the wrong way, even if of course I would also much prefer having Martin on the team over Scuderi.

But looking at the cap right now, it is very difficult to do anything significant on the top 6, and we have just a few ways to open room. Scuderi opens room if he is dealt for a pick and in that case we can get an UFA with that money.

Martin would arguably be the best defenseman on the market if he had been an UFA, and with him you can not only open up cap-room, you could also realistically get a significant asset in return, and this becomes more interesting with the news/strong rumors that Martin will eventually want to try out free agency next season.

When it comes to "they don't make a word for how dumb that would be", what we should be looking at is the combined return Shero's tactics got us for Niskanen, Orpik, Michalek, Engelland, Strait and Joe Morrow.... this while also spending two 2nd rounders at the deadline on missfit Murray who we did not extend. This is the most monumentally spastic way of not profiting on having build a strong D-pipeline.

Hence, when looking at Martin now... and realising that Scuderi is at least an asset for two more years (Brad Stuart returned a 2nd and a 6th for San Jose yesterday).... you also have to consider if we can really let another top defenseman go for nothing next season. For me.... if there are good deals out there for Martin.... I say we gotta listen. Otherwise.... sure, get rid of Scuds salary to create some room.

I love your post. Well thought out. I do read the boards everyday, but I only post if they are good or bad. Yours is beyond good. Well said.

 

[Tender Rip]

I am almost blushing .

As for something completely different.... have we considered that it might be beneficial to not fix our issues immediately, but instead wait for Dupuis and Scuderi to hopefully return to being productive hockey players and try and use them as trade bait then?
You could say the same with Martin who would still be acting in a top pairing capacity... and you could see a decent team with a need get desperate for D in case of an injury. Etc.

I mean - one could start out the season with KCD, it usually works in the regular season - and use Dupuis' inflated stats to get something back. Same likely being the case with Scuderi, who would still be a most likely useful starter in Maatta's absence to open the season.

I say this with Johnston's IMO prescient comment about... paraphrasing... the early results being a secondary concern in mind. We have the cap-space to re-sign Sutter, Despres and Spaling now and have a bit left over.

As is, our team is still easily a playoff team, and for regular season purposes:

Kunitz Crosby Dupuis
Bennett Malkin Horny
Spaling Sutter Downie
Comeau Goc Megna/Adams/WBS

.... should be more than enough initially. It would let us get a better feel for what we have with Bennett and let the coaching staff settle in to really evaluate needs.

Not crazy about that top 6 obviously, but it is what it is, and the 69 million dollar cap rather than the 71 million one we have mostly been playing with in the past does make a difference also. Right now I rather think the biggest thing is for the new management to not make a rash mistake.
Being golden in the Autumn/Winter is pointless. If our own experiences don't suffice, just look at the team that won two of the last three cups by sucking early and getting their final pieces added late on.

 

[NMK11]

I am almost blushing .

As for something completely different.... have we considered that it might be beneficial to not fix our issues immediately, but instead wait for Dupuis and Scuderi to hopefully return to being productive hockey players and try and use them as trade bait then?
You could say the same with Martin who would still be acting in a top pairing capacity... and you could see a decent team with a need get desperate for D in case of an injury. Etc.

I mean - one could start out the season with KCD, it usually works in the regular season - and use Dupuis' inflated stats to get something back. Same likely being the case with Scuderi, who would still be a most likely useful starter in Maatta's absence to open the season.

I say this with Johnston's IMO prescient comment about... paraphrasing... the early results being a secondary concern in mind. We have the cap-space to re-sign Sutter, Despres and Spaling now and have a bit left over.

As is, our team is still easily a playoff team, and for regular season purposes:

Kunitz Crosby Dupuis
Bennett Malkin Horny
Spaling Sutter Downie
Comeau Goc Megna/Adams/WBS

.... should be more than enough initially. It would let us get a better feel for what we have with Bennett and let the coaching staff settle in to really evaluate needs.

Not crazy about that top 6 obviously, but it is what it is, and the 69 million dollar cap rather than the 71 million one we have mostly been playing with in the past does make a difference also. Right now I rather think the biggest thing is for the new management to not make a rash mistake.
Being golden in the Autumn/Winter is pointless. If our own experiences don't suffice, just look at the team that won two of the last three cups by sucking early and getting their final pieces added late on.

I'm with you on this. That lineup as is will be good enough to start the season and there isn't anyone on the market I see as a for sure upgrade. If the right trade comes along, go for it, but it's not something we have to rush. That bottom six is a million times better than last year, and Ehroff/Despres/Bortuzzo is an upgrade from Nisky/Orpik/Engelland.

We're one top 6 forward from being a really complete team, so let's not do anything rash just yet. My cautiously optimistic self sees that third line as being a much bigger force that we haven't had since Cooke-Staal-Kennedy, and if playoff Sutter has shown us who he truly can be with decent lineups, it should be a fun line to watch.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I am almost blushing .

As for something completely different.... have we considered that it might be beneficial to not fix our issues immediately, but instead wait for Dupuis and Scuderi to hopefully return to being productive hockey players and try and use them as trade bait then?
You could say the same with Martin who would still be acting in a top pairing capacity... and you could see a decent team with a need get desperate for D in case of an injury. Etc.

I mean - one could start out the season with KCD, it usually works in the regular season - and use Dupuis' inflated stats to get something back. Same likely being the case with Scuderi, who would still be a most likely useful starter in Maatta's absence to open the season.

I say this with Johnston's IMO prescient comment about... paraphrasing... the early results being a secondary concern in mind. We have the cap-space to re-sign Sutter, Despres and Spaling now and have a bit left over.

As is, our team is still easily a playoff team, and for regular season purposes:

Kunitz Crosby Dupuis
Bennett Malkin Horny
Spaling Sutter Downie
Comeau Goc Megna/Adams/WBS

.... should be more than enough initially. It would let us get a better feel for what we have with Bennett and let the coaching staff settle in to really evaluate needs.

Not crazy about that top 6 obviously, but it is what it is, and the 69 million dollar cap rather than the 71 million one we have mostly been playing with in the past does make a difference also. Right now I rather think the biggest thing is for the new management to not make a rash mistake.
Being golden in the Autumn/Winter is pointless. If our own experiences don't suffice, just look at the team that won two of the last three cups by sucking early and getting their final pieces added late on.

I've been saying this for a week or so on here. Obviously I'd rather have our complete top 6 good to go for opening night, but as long as JR gets it right by the trade deadline, I'll be happy. And getting Dupuis up and running before we ship that contract out of here might be the best way to go.

 

[Human]

so after all these massive changes you're telling me that we're going to see Dupuis on Crosby's RW again? excuse me, but I need to vomit...

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

so after all these massive changes you're telling me that we're going to see Dupuis on Crosby's RW again? excuse me, but I need to vomit...

Well it is just the regular season for the purposes of this conversation, and as we all know it pretty much comes down to post-all star break play. A monkey could coach this team in this conference to the playoffs.

 

[wej20]

If Dupuis doesn't play with Crosby then Malkin's going to have some seriously mediocre linemates.

 

[Waffle Fries]

If Dupuis doesn't play with Crosby then Malkin's going to have some seriously mediocre linemates.

Even if we don't make another move, Dupuis doesn't even need to be in the top six.

 

[Jacob]

I'm actually pretty confident that Dupuis will find his legs and be a productive player anywhere in the lineup. Maybe not $3.75 million productive, but not so far off that we need to dump his salary.

Scuderi, even if he does turn his game around, is just redundant though on this team. Even at his best he isn't worth the $2.5 million price difference of a Harrington/Samuelsson/Dumoulin.

 

[NMK11]

Exactly. Love Martin but you have to listen especially if the return is there and the vibe is he wants to go elsewhere next summer. I think I'd rather push Scuderi out now and try to extend Ehrhoff at some point.

Without Scuderi, our D depth is still awesome:

1. Letang
2. Martin
3. Ehrhoff
4. Maatta
5. Despres
6. Bortuzzo
7. Dumoulin
8. Harrington
9. Samuelsson
10. Pouliot

1-4 is a great top four. 5-9 are all ready for NHL time and they've said they want to play these guys. I see zero need for Scuderi now or in the future, though I think he will be better this season.

I am unsure if we have a cup caliber defense if we move Martin.

We do have really solid D depth, but your last sentence hits it. While your numbers 5-9 are all capable of playing in the NHL, I'm not sure if you make it too far if 6-9 are playing significant minutes, all are probably bottom pairing players at this point. If Martin leaves, Despres is still could be (and I say could, I think should, but yet to be proven) top 4 guy, but it's a big drop down after that.

As it is we're playing three of our younger guys if Scuds is moved and our first 3 call ups will be the youth movement as well. I'd rather trade Scuderi for picks now and risk losing Martin for nothing after this year than play Scuderi this year and trade Martin for anything less than a top tier winger. We have the players in the pipeline to replace Martin after this year if it comes to it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well it is just the regular season for the purposes of this conversation, and as we all know it pretty much comes down to post-all star break play. A monkey could coach this team in this conference to the playoffs.

Keeping Dupuis on a scoring line and counting on deadline acquisitions to shore up the top 6 sounds awfully familiar.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Keeping Dupuis on a scoring line and counting on deadline acquisitions to shore up the top 6 sounds awfully familiar.

True, but it could be a deal done in November or December, ie. a long term solution via trade, as opposed to a pure rental situation.

That said, I'm not sure waiting on Duper to prove he's back is worth it. We could try to make use of Sutter's RFA rights in the summer instead of waiting around, and add Duper as a throw-in in his current state.

 

[Tender Rip]

Keeping Dupuis on a scoring line and counting on deadline acquisitions to shore up the top 6 sounds awfully familiar.

Well... if Downie is ready to play like in Tampa, then by all means flip the two and infuse Sid's line with some brawl.

Either way, it seems like too much if an auto pilot view from you that JR must deliver instantly after you showing..... tremendous patience with the previous regime.

We have a SICK 1st unit PP on paper now. We have a few guys who could stand to get some time in good positions to either see if they 'have it' or to reclaim some value.... Why not use that time rather than trying to make a trade right now when teams are still able to snap up potential solutions for pennies on the dollar with the free agents who still haven't signed? The guys we would want to trade we are not likely getting full value for at this point anyway.

The team doesn't have to be set in August. The Stanley Cup final was just contended by two lower seeded teams who got rolling late on after acquiring top guys like Gaborik and St.Louis.
We are going to be a playoff team either way - why not see what we have and how the new system shapes up - and how players do in it - before making a big move cutting into our less than voluminous asset collection?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Well... if Downie is ready to play like in Tampa, then by all means flip the two and infuse Sid's line with some brawl.

Either way, it seems like too much if an auto pilot view from you that JR must deliver instantly after you showing..... tremendous patience with the previous regime.

We have a SICK 1st unit PP on paper now. We have a few guys who could stand to get some time in good positions to either see if they 'have it' or to reclaim some value.... Why not use that time rather than trying to make a trade right now when teams are still able to snap up potential solutions for pennies on the dollar with the free agents who still haven't signed? The guys we would want to trade we are not likely getting full value for at this point anyway.

The team doesn't have to be set in August. The Stanley Cup final was just contended by two lower seeded teams who got rolling late on after acquiring top guys like Gaborik and St.Louis.
We are going to be a playoff team either way - why not see what we have and how the new system shapes up - and how players do in it - before making a big move cutting into our less than voluminous asset collection?

1st PP unit:
Hornqvist-Crosby-Malkin
Letang-Ehrhoff

2nd PP unit:
Dupuis-Sutter-Kunitz
Martin-Maatta

That PP is going to be so good it will be illegal

For the first PP, Honrqvist makes his living there in the crease. He had Weber with his canon on the PP, now has Ehrhoff.

Hornqvist:


Ehrhoff:


And Letang:


That is where JR deserves credit from one of his biggest bashers when he was hired. The sum of the Hornqvist and Ehrhoff is better than the parts. Then Malkin and Crosby are roaming around the perimeters doing what they do.

They are going to break records with that PP.

That second unit, while it only will get cleanup duties with the last 30 or 40 seconds is decent as well. But they may never reach the ice as the first unit will score so often.

 

[mpp9]

Dupuis isn't going to be on the PP, at all. But aside from that, agreed.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Dupuis isn't going to be on the PP, at all. But aside from that, agreed.

So put Downie there. It is the second unit, will not matter a lot. Except that at least it should not be the black hole that it had been in the past where if the first unit did not score the PP was over.

 

[Tender Rip]

So put Downie there. It is the second unit, will not matter a lot. Except that at least it should not be the black hole that it had been in the past where if the first unit did not score the PP was over.

Bennett on that left wall should hopefully be the default selection, but yeah, Downie could get a go over Dupuis also.

 

[Pancakes]

I'm actually pretty confident that Dupuis will find his legs and be a productive player anywhere in the lineup. Maybe not $3.75 million productive, but not so far off that we need to dump his salary.

Scuderi, even if he does turn his game around, is just redundant though on this team. Even at his best he isn't worth the $2.5 million price difference of a Harrington/Samuelsson/Dumoulin.

I'm glad you said this, because I was beginning to feel like the only Dupuis supporter around here. I get that he shouldn't be in the top six ideally, but he's still a great two-way player who is valuable to this team.

Ideally he'll be on the third line hustling his ass off and chipping in 15 or so goals. And if he is on Sid's line well, he'll still probably pot 20 and be a great two-way player, so it's not the worst thing in the world like a lot here would claim.

 

[Tender Rip]

I'm glad you said this, because I was beginning to feel like the only Dupuis supporter around here. I get that he shouldn't be in the top six ideally, but he's still a great two-way player who is valuable to this team.

Ideally he'll be on the third line hustling his ass off and chipping in 15 or so goals. And if he is on Sid's line well, he'll still probably pot 20 and be a great two-way player, so it's not the worst thing in the world like a lot here would claim.

What people don't like is the idea that Dupuis could be there when it matters. At least with a new coach we can hope that it would indeed be temporary, in which case past results would indicate that KCD more than suffice for the regular season. Playoffs.... different kettle of fish.

 

[Pancakes]

What people don't like is the idea that Dupuis could be there when it matters. At least with a new coach we can hope that it would indeed be temporary, in which case past results would indicate that KCD more than suffice for the regular season. Playoffs.... different kettle of fish.

I think one problem with this line of thinking is KCD's effectiveness or lackthereof in the playoffs is based on Dan Bylsma's system and Dan Bylsma's coaching. We don't yet know how that line will fare under Mike Johnston. Perhaps we could well win in the playoffs with it because Mike Johnston actually believes in line matching whereas DB was content to run Sid's line into the other team's defensive meat grinders.