As a leaf fan I understand this completely but if a trade did happen earlier in the year and Tanev was dealt for a first good prospect and prime age 25 to 30 goal scorer what precludes the gm at the deadline from trading that player for another first and very good prospect ? An example would be aquiring jvr in a Tanev deal and flipping him at the deadline to Anaheim for Montour stoner and ducks first. The trade becomes Torontos top ten protected first Anaheims first Montour lepisic and stoner for Tanev. That's a great return for a rebuilding team.
Value of: Chris Tanev
- Thread starter rajinikanthfan1
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As a leaf fan I understand this completely but if a trade did happen earlier in the year and Tanev was dealt for a first good prospect and prime age 25 to 30 goal scorer what precludes the gm at the deadline from trading that player for another first and very good prospect ? An example would be aquiring jvr in a Tanev deal and flipping him at the deadline to Anaheim for Montour stoner and ducks first. The trade becomes Torontos top ten protected first Anaheims first Montour lepisic and stoner for Tanev. That's a great return for a rebuilding team.
Tanev is not getting a 1st round pick this early in the season. Maybe later in the year at the TDL when a team is all but guaranteed a playoff spot and giving up a 16th or later 1st round pick. The only reason I say he could fetch a 1st round pick is because he is young and still has 4 more years control at a reasonable price for a top 4 dman.
I like Tanev but to sit here and see people talking about the ridiculous asking price is just absurd. Christ, Tanev has a career high 20 points. I understand there is more to playing defence than just points, but when you consider all aspects of hockey Tanev is not a whole lot better(IF at all) than someone like Jake Gardiner. They are both the same age, same contract one is better defensively and one is better offensively , one shoots right and one shoots left.
Before everyone goes nuts , Jake gets a bad rap because a few years ago as a young player he used to give up the puck a lot, well first of all that is because he always had the puck and secondly he is not doing that any more. Jake is evolving and has look very good for Toronto this season because he has no pressure everyone is talking about Rielly and Z.
I know its early in the season but
Tanev 7 games 0 goals 1 apple 2 pims 0+/- 0.14 PPG pace
Gards 12 games 2 goals 5 apples 2 pims 0 +/- 1.71 PPG pace
I am sorry but this game is about scoring more than the other team when the Gap is this large in terms of Points Per Game , we better be talking about some elite shut down Dman and only a few names come to mind, Adam Foote being one.
You look at todays NHL , you need two way d-men. Guys who play both sides of the puck. All the best D men(expect Karlsson) play two way defence.
So I will end all this with Yes do I like Tanev for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yes I do. He fits a role we could use. However with that said When and IF the Leafs start being good again and If tanev was on this team he would still be behind Rielly and Zaitsev. Speaking of Jake Gardiner, Tanev would look good as his D partner!
So off the table in any trade for Tanev. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen , Neilson, Dermott 1st round pick 2017.
On the table.
2nd round picks 2017 (we have two) 2nd round picks 2018 and beyond, 3-7th round picks(2017+), Brenden Lispeic , Connor Brown, Josh Leivo, Connor Carrick and I would consider any other prospect not named Kapanen.
Also most likely would have to take back some Cap Dollars(short term) Either Liach, Polak, Michalek, just the remainder of this year left
I would think that is about the best offer your going to see for Tanev across any team but what do I know I am just some internet plug waiting my time at work on HF Boards!
For the record,
Career PPG
Tanev- 0.21
Gards- 0.37
Over their careers so far that amounts for almost double Tanevs points.
I like Tanev but to sit here and see people talking about the ridiculous asking price is just absurd. Christ, Tanev has a career high 20 points. I understand there is more to playing defence than just points, but when you consider all aspects of hockey Tanev is not a whole lot better(IF at all) than someone like Jake Gardiner. They are both the same age, same contract one is better defensively and one is better offensively , one shoots right and one shoots left.
Before everyone goes nuts , Jake gets a bad rap because a few years ago as a young player he used to give up the puck a lot, well first of all that is because he always had the puck and secondly he is not doing that any more. Jake is evolving and has look very good for Toronto this season because he has no pressure everyone is talking about Rielly and Z.
I know its early in the season but
Tanev 7 games 0 goals 1 apple 2 pims 0+/- 0.14 PPG pace
Gards 12 games 2 goals 5 apples 2 pims 0 +/- 1.71 PPG pace
I am sorry but this game is about scoring more than the other team when the Gap is this large in terms of Points Per Game , we better be talking about some elite shut down Dman and only a few names come to mind, Adam Foote being one.
You look at todays NHL , you need two way d-men. Guys who play both sides of the puck. All the best D men(expect Karlsson) play two way defence.
So I will end all this with Yes do I like Tanev for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yes I do. He fits a role we could use. However with that said When and IF the Leafs start being good again and If tanev was on this team he would still be behind Rielly and Zaitsev. Speaking of Jake Gardiner, Tanev would look good as his D partner!
So off the table in any trade for Tanev. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen , Neilson, Dermott 1st round pick 2017.
On the table.
2nd round picks 2017 (we have two) 2nd round picks 2018 and beyond, 3-7th round picks(2017+), Brenden Lispeic , Connor Brown, Josh Leivo, Connor Carrick and I would consider any other prospect not named Kapanen.
Also most likely would have to take back some Cap Dollars(short term) Either Liach, Polak, Michalek, just the remainder of this year left
I would think that is about the best offer your going to see for Tanev across any team but what do I know I am just some internet plug waiting my time at work on HF Boards!
For the record,
Career PPG
Tanev- 0.21
Gards- 0.37
Over their careers so far that amounts for almost double Tanevs points.
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Randy Randerson
Registered User
I wasn't asking specifically about JVR, just about the state of the Canucks and the idea of waiting.
And I do think you're losing games for lack of talent. The Sedins were good enough to be your franchise players into their mid 30's but, predictably, that's coming to an end. Eriksson, Granlund, Sutter are alright players, but not good enough to be the scoring engines of a good team
JVR is also not a middle six player on your team, he's top six. Since joining the leafs he's a 29.1 goal/58.8 point per 82 game player, often as the second best player on his line and sometimes as the best player on his line, I don't recall a time where he was the 3rd best on his line which has typically been the top line. He's a top line winger by definition, he's in the same production range since joining the leafs as Landeskog, Cammalleri, Palat and Forsberg which is good for being a top 15-20 LW in the league, there are 30 "top line" spots so the best 30 are top liners. Your interpretations of him are selling him short, objectively speaking
I don't think JVR fixes the Canucks problems either, you need franchise level talent, which you either have to draft incredibly well or incredibly high to get. So waiting to make a move to start a rebuild until your management is changed I think only devalues tradable assets where they could bring good return now
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I am not sure we could come up with fair value . I would offer a package to the Canucks for him
Jones
Shepyshev
Yakimov
2018 2nd
I know other Oilers fans may complain but he would make our top 4 tough to score against and we can then add a PPQB
Future D
Klefbom Larsson
Nurse Tanev
Davidson Benning
PPQB
Bottom line is if Vancouver is trading Tanev it's signaling a rebuild. At that point getting guys like Bozak and JVR is not at all what the Canucks need.
I understand Toronto is not going to be trading Marner or Nylander for Tanev as they should keep them for the future.
at which point it comes down to Kapanen, Bracco and picks to try and get a deal done. And I don't know what canucks fans will be willing to agree on.
I understand Toronto is not going to be trading Marner or Nylander for Tanev as they should keep them for the future.
at which point it comes down to Kapanen, Bracco and picks to try and get a deal done. And I don't know what canucks fans will be willing to agree on.
DeltaSwede
Registered User
Randy Randerson
Registered User
I'm not advocating a Tanev for JVR based trade, but guys like him are also very liquid without huge contract commitments and especially if you can retain to make them fit for a contender with cap restrictions. So if it was a JVR+ type thing, is there any reason that Vancouver wouldn't look at JVR as a tradeable asset? Pretty easy to find precedent for futures value too, Ladd last year got a 1st+Marko Dano, Bobby Ryan got a 1st+Silfverberg
So if a deal was JVR+Kapanen, it could feasibly become Kapanen+1st Rounder+Another good prospect, which you would think looks pretty good to start a rebuild
As a leaf fan, I'm only really interested in that if near the trade deadline it looks like we've got a shot to reach the playoffs without mortgaging the future.
I think his point was your post was basically useless. Here, let me compare Tanev to Gardiner. I believe that Tanev's value can be gauged by looking at his points because that's where he's most valuable. Then, I am going to state that any prospect of any value is off the table. Here, you can choose from our B-rated asset pool.
B-Rated talent pool?
Just because those guys are not at good as the Elite Guys don't make it B rated.
Brenden Leispic could very well be your best prospect.
Not to split hairs but boeser is there top prospect and lepisic doesn't come close to him.
Asset pool, not talent pool. Nowhere did I knock any of your prospects' talent. Let's be real.. That's a B-rated asset pool for us to choose from. Why would we even consider a trade with you?
I'm assuming you're another person who hasn't watched Tanev for more than 2 games against your Leafs. He's not a player you can judge by stat watching
Considering the Zibby/Brassard deal, I think Tanev could interest Ottawa. This is just my personal offer which I sincerely doubt Sens fans will agree to but I'd do Ceci+ for Tanev.
Ceci is from Ottawa, is part of our core and is one of younger pieces. He has a ton of potential and is only 22 years old. He's currently a #4 defenseman who plays the right side. If the Canucks are ever serious about a rebuild, I think Ottawa would be interested in acquiring Tanev. The plus wouldn't be huge because you guys are getting a good NHL defenseman but I'd add a prospect+3rd.
I'd offer a package involving Lazar but since we can only protect 3D, we'd probably need to move one of Ceci/Phaneuf in the deal and I know DP2 doesn't interest you guys.
Cody Ceci + Matt Puempel + 2017 3rd for Chris Tanev
or
Curtis Lazar + Chris Wideman + 2019 2nd for Chris Tanev
Ceci is from Ottawa, is part of our core and is one of younger pieces. He has a ton of potential and is only 22 years old. He's currently a #4 defenseman who plays the right side. If the Canucks are ever serious about a rebuild, I think Ottawa would be interested in acquiring Tanev. The plus wouldn't be huge because you guys are getting a good NHL defenseman but I'd add a prospect+3rd.
I'd offer a package involving Lazar but since we can only protect 3D, we'd probably need to move one of Ceci/Phaneuf in the deal and I know DP2 doesn't interest you guys.
Cody Ceci + Matt Puempel + 2017 3rd for Chris Tanev
or
Curtis Lazar + Chris Wideman + 2019 2nd for Chris Tanev
AuraSphere
Registered User
- Jun 27, 2012
- 4,271
- 2,391
As a leafs fan like I said above, I wouldn't want to give up any of that for a guy who don't put up points. Your comparison is what Ladd career 0.59 PPG player and 2 time cup champ and bobby ryan 0.73 ppg player who was coming off 4 straight 30 goals seasons when he got traded.
No dice for Tanev getting that kinda payment
Why would the leafs move JVR right now? Are you not watching the chemistry him Bozak and Marner are developing? Just ask Vancouver , they couldn't stop em
You are quite uninformed. Tanev is a legitimate #2 who is very underrated around the NHL. Those pieces do not fetch him and this is coming from a Sens fan. They've got Demko, Juolevi, Boeser and a few others would are better than the prospects you named. He's not some random player, he's a very good defenseman signed to a great contract. Those don't come cheap in todays NHL.
No actually watched the whole WHC, where he was Reilly's partner and very much liked his game, with that said I understand what he is and I understand how quickly defensive only d-men tend to slow down. Ask Daniel Girardi or anyone who watches the New York Rangers.
Randy Randerson
Registered User
Ryan had 4 straight 30 goal seasons, but was never better than 3rd on his team in scoring while playing with Getzlaf and Perry - if I remember right, wasn't there also some cap duress for Anaheim at the time that forced their hand on the trade?
Van Riemsdyk was 2nd on the leafs for both years that he played 80+ games, and is over a 29-goal-per-82-game player in a leaf uniform. Ladd and JVR's career production is very similar, as is their more recent production after starting their careers with seasons of more modest production.
They all look to be guys who are good enough to be the 3rd best guy on a very good first line.
As I said in the post you quoted, I'm not advocating the trade, just wondered why JVR was only being considered by Canucks fans for what he could bring to the team, rather than as a tradeable asset which to me would make more sense for a team that is probably heading for a rebuild
Leafs don't want rid of JVR, but our system is deep with wing prospects so he's dealable to fill needs
The Nuge
Some say…
If we could have gotten Tanev for that, we wouldn't have traded Hall. There isn't a good enough piece there to get a top pairing dman
Right. Tanev is quite a bit better right now.
I will give you Juoleiv and Boeser , Goaltenders are wild cards high picks don't mean crap when it comes to Goal tenders
Point everyone is missing is that Our Prospects despite being behind Matthews, Nylander, Marner(Elite prospects) don't make then second rate. Most teams do not have Elite Prospects let a lone 3 of them. Kapanen, Lespic could very well be other teams number 1 or 2 prospects
While I agree, there's nothing to say we couldn't flip JVR at the deadline for something else. It's a bit of a risk, because you need him to a) be healthy, and b) be productive with his new team. Still, take the best deal you can get.
Randy Randerson
Registered User
I'm surprised that idea hasn't been caught on to, could also be done as a 3 way trade to eliminate that risk
Leafs get: Tanev
3rd Team (contender) gets: JVR
Canucks get: Contender's 1st+contender's good prospect +whatever add comes from Toronto with JVR
