Value of: Chris Kreider

[bernmeister]

The ask is what's fair for Kreider, and then you can also have Lindgren (retained)for free.

that's yr op

that is not automatic for me, depends on scope of the package to warrant a freebie
unlike zib
Krieder, IF pushed out the door, will command a good return on his own

 

[FiveTacos]

I would personally do Geekie and the 2026 2nd but I wouldn't move our 1st for Kreider

Rangers are in a tough spot where I think they have to move him but the market might be tougher than they think because he is 33, has a 15 team NTC, speculation on back issues, might be a on decline, just benched, etc.

You might only have a few contenders (and they likely have to be American teams) inquiring

IMO the age isn't a massive issue because the remaining term isn't bad. The UFA market mostly requires signing guys into their late 30s.

Back issues, I'm sure will have to be looked into and cleared.

Decline, well hey, if he were still in his prime he wouldn't be shopped at all.

Benched, I doubt it matters.

The big thing is the NTC, but at this point might he be more willing to waive for some teams just to get out?

I actually think he makes sense for more than just contenders. Cap floor teams are fine with a placeholder salary but with limited term, and when it's someone who can also pop a few goals then great. A midrange team that wouldn't lean heavily on him and is just missing his style of player might see him pushing them up the ranks.

 

[Xspyrit]

ok so would the Rangers fans give up a 1st and/or a good young player for Giroux if he had 2 more years left at 6.5 AAV? And Giroux is currently a better player, like it has been the case all their careers. I wouldn't blame anyone telling me NO.

These things become easy to evaluate when you can get out of your own narrowed telescopic view.

I'm not saying that a team wouldn't want to outbid another one if they still believe enough in him but he has 2 YEARS LEFT at 6.5 AAV. There is a huge RISK factor no matter how you slice it. Which is why there is absolutely no way I'd sarcifice Greig or a 1st to acquire him

Ottawa doesn't have the pieces or cap space to acquire Kreider.

What? Any team has the pieces to acquire Kreider, if they can fit him on their salary cap.

Not happening because of CKs MNTC but for shits and giggles - Grieg, Perron, and 2nd and 4th for a 6th and CK. We’d try to flip Perron if possible at the TD.

It's GREIG but that's an automatic no.

Change Greig to Amadio and it works.

 

[TGWL]

ok so would the Rangers fans give up a 1st and/or a good young player for Giroux if he had 2 more years left at 6.5 AAV? And Giroux is currently a better player, like it has been the case all their careers. I wouldn't blame anyone telling me NO.

These things become easy to evaluate when you can get out of your own narrowed telescopic view.

I'm not saying that a team wouldn't want to outbid another one if they still believe enough in him but he has 2 YEARS LEFT at 6.5 AAV. There is a huge RISK factor no matter how you slice it. Which is why there is absolutely no way I'd sarcifice Greig or a 1st to acquire him



What? Any team has the pieces to acquire Kreider, if they can fit him on their salary cap.



It's GREIG but that's an automatic no.

Change Greig to Amadio and it works.

Giroux is 36 and didn't score 30+ goals last season, so no. If you want to go back to when Giroux was being traded, yes, quite easily. But Giroux isn't saving this team right now.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Who?

I'd only trade for Kreider if Amadio and Perron are going the other way. No cap space

And even then, I think Sens would need to go after a more dynamic forward



Damn, I'd much rather keep Greig than having 33 y/o Kreider



Any GM giving up a 2nd round pick for 100% of that Kreider contract is a BAD GM.

OP doesn't have to list more assets, I wouldn't give up the 2nd.



But that's the thing, he's worth much less than a 2nd. I'd give up that 2nd if you take Perron and Amadio

Player's values are highly related to their contract and Kreider's contract is NO LONGER attractive, simple as that

I’m not sure how you’d rather have Greig but you’re entitled to your opinion.

Greig is 22 and hasn’t really shown he’s much more than a bottom6er at this point and I’m not sure with you’d be convinced otherwise.

Kreider is having a bad year along with the rest of his team but is coming off of a 76 point season and still pacing near 30 g this season.

Youth is great and all but relying too heavily on it gets you in long term playoff droughts.

A guy like Kreider can offer a lot more than what’s on the scoresheet to the younger guys. I also don’t believe he’s “washed” after 1//3 of a season when his production is down a bit.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

I suspect some Buffalo fans wouldn't want him but as an outsider he seems a good example of what they need. Experienced, scores goals (and Buffalo have lots of young playmakers), net front presence and scores deflections. Also has had an A for the Rangers.

$6.5m for 2 more years would give them time for the lots if young talent to grow.

A player like Kreider and someone like Brock Nelson would have a huge benefit to the Sabres.

 

[stan the caddy]

Rick Nash as a rental got a 1st plus and he'd been playing like shit for several seasons. Kreider would be a great addition to any team trying to win a cup. He's a big body that actually scores in the playoffs.

I don't want to get rid of him at all but management is running a solid team into the ground.

 

[qc14]

IMO the age isn't a massive issue because the remaining term isn't bad. The UFA market mostly requires signing guys into their late 30s.

The reason teams overspend on money and term in UFA is that there is no other acquisition cost.

I think any team that would be acquiring him would probably (correctly) view him as a complimentary middle 6 winger who can also chip in on special teams but can't be relied upon anymore to put up big numbers or play top minutes. Those guys -- from Mangiapane and Smith this offseason to Toffoli and Mantha last year to Colton and Rakell in years past -- tend to go for second round picks plus expiring salary filler plus maybe a fourth or a fifth.

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

I would personally do Geekie and the 2026 2nd but I wouldn't move our 1st for Kreider

Rangers are in a tough spot where I think they have to move him but the market might be tougher than they think because he is 33, has a 15 team NTC, speculation on back issues, might be a on decline, just benched, etc.

You might only have a few contenders (and they likely have to be American teams) inquiring

Boston makes a lot of sense because it's his hometown and I don't think he has to uproot his entire life in the process by staying on the East Coast.

I don't think Rangers fans are going to get back what they believe his real value is unless they start taking some bad contracts back or retaining

Hell,

Take Frederic with Geekie and drop the 2nd.

 

[FiveTacos]

The reason teams overspend on money and term in UFA is that there is no other acquisition cost.

When you're paying huge money to guys into their twilight years, you pay more at the end of the deal in lost opportunity costs, or you may have to factor in the cost to get rid of that contract later. It's not free when you get stuck with some dude who you're paying that kind of money to when they're like 37 or 38 ... sure you saved on giving up an asset, but you tied up future millions for several years on a guy who's not remotely worth it (or potentially have to spend assets to unload it).

I think any team that would be acquiring him would probably (correctly) view him as a complimentary middle 6 winger who can also chip in on special teams but can't be relied upon anymore to put up big numbers or play top minutes.

I think there's more than a few teams that think they could put him with their best players and have him feed off of them in a big way. Complementary? Sure, but in the best sense of the word.

Those guys -- from Mangiapane and Smith this offseason to Toffoli and Mantha last year to Colton and Rakell in years past -- tend to go for second round picks plus expiring salary filler plus maybe a fourth or a fifth.

The thing that separates him, IMO, is that unlike most of those guys, it would surprise no one if Kreider had a great playoff where he pops in a bunch of goals. The guy is a proven playoff goal scorer.

It was only last year Kreider was over 70 points and had 39 goals. Hell, he had a pretty hot goal scoring start to THIS season, with like 8 goals in 13. Are we now suggesting that everyone thinks he's suddenly "lost it" in the span of about a month or so? That he'll never get any of it back? If that's the case, why any interest at all? Go get a different middle 6'er who costs less, sure ... but my guess is the "upside" of a Frank Vatrano or something will be a hell of a lot less. You might not have to pay as much, but you also get back a much much lower ceiling.

I like some of those other guys, but it'd be pretty shocking if most of them had gone bonkers in the playoffs as a rental.

 

[Fataldogg]

His contract is awful and he's washed. He doesn't have much trade value. You should be thankful anyone wants to take him at that cap hit.

$6.5 million for a player who has regularly been scoring 35+ goals a season is not awful. He isn't washed. He is 33, having a bad season, the whole team is. No doubt in my mind a change of scenery, new locker room, new coach, team, etc, he will vastly improve.

 

[qc14]

When you're paying huge money to guys into their twilight years, you pay more at the end of the deal in lost opportunity costs, or you may have to factor in the cost to get rid of that contract later. It's not free when you get stuck with some dude who you're paying that kind of money to when they're like 37 or 38 ... sure you saved on giving up an asset, but you tied up future millions for several years on a guy who's not remotely worth it (or potentially have to spend assets to unload it).

And a team acquiring Kreider would be doing just that!

It was only last year Kreider was over 70 points and had 39 goals. Hell, he had a pretty hot goal scoring start to THIS season, with like 8 goals in 13.

And how many goals and assists does he have total this year? How many times has he been scratched? How many times has he been on the ice for a shot or chance or goal against?

Are we now suggesting that everyone thinks he's suddenly "lost it" in the span of about a month or so? That he'll never get any of it back? If that's the case, why any interest at all?

I don't think people are suggesting he's never going to get any of it back but I don't think it's controversial to say he's not getting most of it back. He's 33, his underlying numbers have been declining for a couple of years now, and he's been disastrously bad this season. As you point out, he still has a history and reputation of being a great goal scorer, particularly in the playoffs, which teams are willing to take chances on.

Go get a different middle 6'er who costs less, sure ... but my guess is the "upside" of a Frank Vatrano or something will be a hell of a lot less. You might not have to pay as much, but you also get back a much much lower ceiling.

A different middle 6er like Vatrano would have a lot less risk both in the short and long term. A team like the Caps or Edmonton or Colorado for instance has the need for a Kreider-type forward. They don't have the space this year, and certainly not in the two years after this one, for Kreider's contract and would thus rather have someone who's just a rental.

I also wouldn't have picked Vatrano out of that group to compare against, given he scored 37 goals last year and had a very nice run his last playoff series with NYR.

 

[SEALBound]

What about a base of:

Kreider+1st/Othmann for Pettersson@50%+Bunting+equalizing prospect like Koivunen?

 

[FiveTacos]

I don't think people are suggesting he's never going to get any of it back but I don't think it's controversial to say he's not getting most of it back. He's 33, his underlying numbers have been declining for a couple of years now, and he's been disastrously bad this season. As you point out, he still has a history and reputation of being a great goal scorer, particularly in the playoffs, which teams are willing to take chances on.

He's absolutely the kind of guy GMs take chances on, because of that history. But that's for good reason ... would you rather roll the dice on a guy with that history, or a guy without it?

A different middle 6er like Vatrano would have a lot less risk both in the short and long term. A team like the Caps or Edmonton or Colorado for instance has the need for a Kreider-type forward. They don't have the space this year, and certainly not in the two years after this one, for Kreider's contract and would thus rather have someone who's just a rental.

The cap is going up. Teams have UFAs. Teams may make other trades to clear space. Who knows, but if someone likes Kreider it's not a crazy salary.

I also wouldn't have picked Vatrano out of that group to compare against, given he scored 37 goals last year and had a very nice run his last playoff series with NYR.

If Kreider were acquired and was, say, one of the 2 or 3 best forwards on your team for a playoff series, it wouldn't be stunning. If Vatrano did that though, I think most everyone would find it pretty shocking.

 

[Guyute]

What about a base of:

Kreider+1st/Othmann for Pettersson@50%+Bunting+equalizing prospect like Koivunen?

The Rangers are headed for a retool. This trade accomplishes nothing for them.

Kreider is available because the Rangers have too many wingers and all of their best prospects are wingers. He’s expendable now that the team isn't competing for the Cup. Kreider is the best PP net-front guy in the league, and ought return decent young assets or a 1st at the very least.

Sorry, but there’s absolutely no chance they are trading Kreider plus a decent prospect or 1st for another winger and a UFA. The Rangers could sign Pettersson without giving away any assets this summer if they like him so much.

 

[Djp]

When you're paying huge money to guys into their twilight years, you pay more at the end of the deal in lost opportunity costs, or you may have to factor in the cost to get rid of that contract later. It's not free when you get stuck with some dude who you're paying that kind of money to when they're like 37 or 38 ... sure you saved on giving up an asset, but you tied up future millions for several years on a guy who's not remotely worth it (or potentially have to spend assets to unload it).

I agree with you that teams over pay for UFAs or keep their players into their UFA yrs.

Most player when theh hit 30+ will start to fall off a cliff in production making the ROI on the contract not worth it. The time with different players occurs at DC different ages.

That is why Kreider is a big concern now

That why GMs need to be smart and limit these to 3-4 yrs

I understand keeping around your true stars around that drive gate revenue

 

[Kegs]

Long term contract on an old player? Might be hard to move.

 

[FiveTacos]

IThat why GMs need to be smart and limit these to 3-4 yrs

Won't happen because teams that are in the hunt figure a guy that can put them over the top is worth suffering bad years on the back end. Besides which some of these GMs figure they'll be gone by then and it'll be the next guy's problem. Or if you win a Cup or two, it buys you enough goodwill to survive a few down years later.

They're not morons, they know the last years of those long deals will suck. But if they don't do it, they lose out to the teams they're competing against.

 

[EXTRAS]

I’m not sure how you’d rather have Greig but you’re entitled to your opinion.

Greig is 22 and hasn’t really shown he’s much more than a bottom6er at this point and I’m not sure with you’d be convinced otherwise.

Kreider is having a bad year along with the rest of his team but is coming off of a 76 point season and still pacing near 30 g this season.

Youth is great and all but relying too heavily on it gets you in long term playoff droughts.

A guy like Kreider can offer a lot more than what’s on the scoresheet to the younger guys. I also don’t believe he’s “washed” after 1//3 of a season when his production is down a bit.

29 goal pace is great but not when it's paired with a 3 assist pace and 2.5 years @ 6.5m...then it's bad.

I'd say if you legitimately want anything significant for kreider there needs to either be significant retention or let him play until the deadline with the Rangers and have him show he isn't cooked.

Usually gms pay more for guys with longer contracts but not when the cap could become a significant burden on a contenders cap structure.

 

[Rangerboy030]

ok so would the Rangers fans give up a 1st and/or a good young player for Giroux if he had 2 more years left at 6.5 AAV? And Giroux is currently a better player, like it has been the case all their careers. I wouldn't blame anyone telling me NO.

These things become easy to evaluate when you can get out of your own narrowed telescopic view.

I'm not saying that a team wouldn't want to outbid another one if they still believe enough in him but he has 2 YEARS LEFT at 6.5 AAV. There is a huge RISK factor no matter how you slice it. Which is why there is absolutely no way I'd sarcifice Greig or a 1st to acquire him



What? Any team has the pieces to acquire Kreider, if they can fit him on their salary cap.



It's GREIG but that's an automatic no.

Change Greig to Amadio and it works.

Giroux probably would command such a price, particularly at the deadline.

 

[BleedBlue14]

29 goal pace is great but not when it's paired with a 3 assist pace and 2.5 years @ 6.5m...then it's bad.

I'd say if you legitimately want anything significant for kreider there needs to either be significant retention or let him play until the deadline with the Rangers and have him show he isn't cooked.

Usually gms pay more for guys with longer contracts but not when the cap could become a significant burden on a contenders cap structure.

I think the term makes it unlikely a team would make the move. But that being said, I don’t see why the Rangers would operate on a full dump basis with him.

I get if Ottawa wouldn’t want him. But there are plenty of teams that could use that type of a player on their PP.

6.5m for a 30 goal scorer with the cap going up isn’t a bad investment. You won’t get the type of production he’s had over the past 3 years cheaper.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Rick Nash as a rental got a 1st plus and he'd been playing like shit for several seasons. Kreider would be a great addition to any team trying to win a cup. He's a big body that actually scores in the playoffs.

I don't want to get rid of him at all but management is running a solid team into the ground.

He is the last player I would trade but out of the core, he has the most value due to playoff success. One reason Rangers should try to convince Panarin to waive, they can get more with 1 season instead of pending UFA. Drury should consider this. #NYRTANKFORHAGENS. Hagens to Perreault will be fun to watch

 

[quietbruinfan]

Just reading hf and clickbait, my spidey sense says they will trade Kreider plus Jones or Borgen for something. Kreider's age, term and bad back make him tough to move. Bruins desperately need a net front guy and I still want nothing to do with him.

 

[pld459666]

The Rangers are headed for a retool. This trade accomplishes nothing for them.

Kreider is available because the Rangers have too many wingers and all of their best prospects are wingers. He’s expendable now that the team isn't competing for the Cup. Kreider is the best PP net-front guy in the league, and ought return decent young assets or a 1st at the very least.

Sorry, but there’s absolutely no chance they are trading Kreider plus a decent prospect or 1st for another winger and a UFA. The Rangers could sign Pettersson without giving away any assets this summer if they like him so much.

Not sure the pic will get posted.

Disregard

 

[bernmeister]

Kreider should ONLY be sold at profit too good to turn down
Every reason to think his share of responsibility is due to back issues which we think can be mitigated with treatment

Kreider, Smith and others have been sucked into the zib vortex
just give him away to VAN max retained for scraps

we then need to serious rebuild vets into youth
but we don't have to start w/Ck and sell low on him