Player Discussion Chris Kreider: Part III

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I would say this is overly ambitious (in terms of what we are giving up) if we weren't apparently super close to dealing Buch for 8th overall last year straight up.

That being said I don't think you can count on the aggregate value on guys like Buch and Strome netting you a top 6 player under 23 or 24.
I’ll admit I’m surprised someone was considering giving up a high first rounder for Buch.

That’s why I threw in the second rounders as well: add some youth to the mix and lift the value a bit. I wouldn’t give up a blue chip prospect for B and/or S — not even for Kreider.
 
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I’ll admit I’m surprised someone was considering giving up a high first rounder for Buch.

That’s why I threw in the second rounders as well: add some youth to the mix and lift the value a bit. I wouldn’t give up a blue chip prospect for B and/or S — not even for Kreider.

Supposedly had Edmonton considering it right up until the 11th hour.

Doubt a similar scenario presents itself with Buch this year.
 
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If the Rangers are going to be competing in 2-3 years, would think it would be wise to have Kreider here still, would still be in his prime. If Kreider goes from a 50 point to 40 point player in his final years, it’s not the end of the world. People here on this forum want to throw out a player as soon as they hit 30 yo and think they can never find a resurgence after 30.

If CK is still effective and a solid player by 34-35 then the contract is not a big deal or an issue.
 
Was hoping he would get to 20 before the deadline to make himself even more attractive to GMs around the league. Dude is gonna sniff 25 at this rate.
 
As great as he is with Mika and Buch, as great as he is in front of the net on the PP, as great as all the other aspects of his game are, I'd still look to deal him... unless we are legitimately sniffing the playoffs come the deadline.

It's a contract year. He's playing for his last big payday. This isn't his usual compete level. We all know that he can disappear for long stretches of time.

Trade him now and you'd get a damn fine return for him.

As over-digested as it is, re-upping Kreider for 7 years just doesn't fit the timeline and causes potential issues down the line for other contracts.
 
If the Rangers are going to be competing in 2-3 years, would think it would be wise to have Kreider here still, would still be in his prime. If Kreider goes from a 50 point to 40 point player in his final years, it’s not the end of the world. People here on this forum want to throw out a player as soon as they hit 30 yo and think they can never find a resurgence after 30.

If CK is still effective and a solid player by 34-35 then the contract is not a big deal or an issue.
Agreed, look at the career of Mike Knuble another power forward.
Knuble’s production improved after he turned 30.
 
After only 3 points (all assists) in his first 7 games of the season, Kreider has been playing at a 65 point and 38 goal rate with 37 points and 22 goals in his past 47 games.

Has 16 goals and 27 points in his past 26 games. (50-35-85 rate)
 
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It will be a mistake to trade Kreider. He is finally coming into his own and playing with really skilled players for the first time in his career. We must keep him. The return well get for him is not as high as people think. And his value to us is more intangible even. Here's an American kid ready to be the captain. Who speaks russian and can communicate with 90% of our players. Who is built for playoff hockey and has always scored in the playoffs for us. Yeah he disappears sometimes but if he learns to keep this up he will be a 60 pt player every year easily.
 
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It will be a mistake to trade Kreider. He is finally coming into his own and playing with really skilled players for the first time in his career. We must keep him. The return well get for him is not as high as people think. And his value to us is more intangible even. Here's an American kid ready to be the captain. Who speaks russian and can communicate with 90% of our players. Who is built for playoff hockey and has always scored in the playoffs for us. Yeah he disappears sometimes but if he learns to keep this up he will be a 60 pt player every year easily.
I'll take the nice return for him instead. He has no value for the team this season, we aren't winning the cup, but getting a top prospect and 1st is value. If he loves the team so much he can sign with us again in July.
 
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People who know this draft better can speak about that but the usual 1st rounder a team gets back from a playoff team for a player could be 20, could be 25, could be 31 and those draft positions can make a huge difference in the quality of player and it's one reason why when someone says a rental is raising his value it's almost meaningless or at least in the sense that you're spinning a roulette wheel to see where it lands. What prospects are likely going to be around and what their general upsides are at those various draft positions.......and then there is the waiting for that player to develop. So one question I have is just how deep is this coming draft?

That is why also whatever + we get in addition to the 1st would be very important and maybe even more important than the 1st itself and keeping in mind no playoff bound team really wants to give up on a young player with a real future that they're also hoping will help them right now.

In a way the simplest thing to do would be to re-sign Kreider--you know what you got then. The issue then is about cap space and we're probably going to have to move on from other players instead.
 
I say we trade Kreider for the new found coup he is worth and then replace him with that power forward dude on Boston at July 1st.

You know, Kris Chreider.
 
People who know this draft better can speak about that but the usual 1st rounder a team gets back from a playoff team for a player could be 20, could be 25, could be 31 and those draft positions can make a huge difference in the quality of player and it's one reason why when someone says a rental is raising his value it's almost meaningless or at least in the sense that you're spinning a roulette wheel to see where it lands. What prospects are likely going to be around and what their general upsides are at those various draft positions.......and then there is the waiting for that player to develop. So one question I have is just how deep is this coming draft?

That is why also whatever + we get in addition to the 1st would be very important and maybe even more important than the 1st itself and keeping in mind no playoff bound team really wants to give up on a young player with a real future that they're also hoping will help them right now.

In a way the simplest thing to do would be to re-sign Kreider--you know what you got then. The issue then is about cap space and we're probably going to have to move on from other players instead.

The challenge is that signing Kreider to the term he can command, if he is not willing to budge, isn't altogether that simple.

Because now you have to make moves that shed salary, instead of making moves where salary is a consideration, but not necessarily the deciding factor.

As we've discussed, instead of moving Strome and Buch for different players who come in at roughly the same price tag, now you have to find guys who come in cheaper. Instead of a lower salaries being a bonus, it now becomes a prerequisite. And that's really the thing with Kreider, unless you get him to come down considerably from his market value, signing him has a cascading effect across the entire NHL roster as it impacts trades, signings, composition, etc.

Some people view Kreider as essential, or irreplaceable. I can understand their reasoning; I get where its coming from and how it arrived at its destination. Personally, I tend to view Kreider as a more of a luxury item.

He's a first line LW, we want to play on our second line, behind a star player who also mans the position. So in that sense, his ability and his impact his greater than that a typical second line LW. But, and this is a key point, that comes with a cost. Because he is a first line LW, there is probably the expectation to be paid like a first line LW. And so the question becomes, would you rather have (and pay for) a first line LW to play on your second line, or would you rather allocate the money differently, have an actual second line LW in that spot (and pay him accordingly), and then use the difference to improve another area?

Some people would rather have the former, others the later. There's pros and cons, risks and rewards to both approaches.

Having said all that, I'm not sure the Rangers would actually use any pick they received from Kreider. I could definitely see them leaning toward packing the pick. But, let's assume there isn't a deal out there that they like.

There's good depth in this draft and some prospects with very good potential to be found in the latter half of the first. And that's ultimately what the Rangers would have to identify --- as they did with Miller, Lundkvist, Skjei and Chytil --- all players who were taken with the 21st pick or later. Hell, even the guy we're debating was taken 19th overall. So I think there's the potential for similar value in this draft. I think as a group we've become a little too dismissive of late first round picks in recent months. Yeah, it's a risk. But the goal of any trade would be to get a package that brings back you the equivalent of Lemieux/Lindgren/Hajek along with a pick that turns into Miller/Lundkvist/Heinola.
 
Is it a coincidence that Kreider is playing the best most consistent hockey of his career in a contract year?

No way he keeps up this pace past this year. Guy is playing out of his face right now.
And how quickly we forget his ice cold start, which was also not him. As always, the truth is in the middle. At the end of the day, most players play to what is on the best of their playing cards. When all is said and done, Kreider will score between 25-30 goals and get his 50+ points.
 
It's a contract year. He's playing for his last big payday. This isn't his usual compete level. We all know that he can disappear for long stretches of time.
And we all know that he will reappear and be a rock solid constributor in the playoffs. He had his cold stretch. Now he is having his hot stretch. In the end, it is not a contract year that you are seeing. It's the play he has had from day 1.

He is who he is. Debate where on the spectrum, but he is a legit top line wing and maybe the best net front presence in the league.
 
And how quickly we forget his ice cold start, which was also not him. As always, the truth is in the middle. At the end of the day, most players play to what is on the best of their playing cards. When all is said and done, Kreider will score between 25-30 goals and get his 50+ points.

Yeah, I tend to think Kreider's play right now is just Chris being Chris more than it's being driven by his contract.

I think it's under the spotlight a lot more, because of the contract situation. But I don't think it's necessarily driven by that situation.
 
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