Player Discussion Chris Kreider Part II: Manimal

[Rangers in 7]

What player dramatically improves on their own at age 24? I swear we're really clinging to the Guerin and LeClair comparisons where they happened to be huge and develop late.

all im saying is that kreider is the more important piece going forward, no doubt. Yandle will not be the type of player he is now down the road, where as kreider has another 10 years even if he doesnt develop into a 30 goal scorer

 

[Mac n Gs]

What player dramatically improves on their own at age 24? I swear we're really clinging to the Guerin and LeClair comparisons where they happened to be huge and develop late.

Honestly, at this rate I'll be happy if he breaks 20 goals this season. He's been playing better as of late, so let's hope he'll continue with that trend.

 

[Raspewtin]

all im saying is that kreider is the more important piece going forward, no doubt. Yandle will not be the type of player he is now down the road, where as kreider has another 10 years even if he doesnt develop into a 30 goal scorer

So Kreider has until he's 34 to get it but Yandle at 29 is what he is and that's bad for some reason

k

 

[Rangers in 7]

So Kreider has until he's 34 to get it but Yandle at 29 is what he is and that's bad for some reason

k

thats not what i said, i said even at his current production he has 10 years at a similar level. yandle being the type of player he is plays at this level for another 3-4.

 

[Raspewtin]

thats not what i said, i said even at his current production he has 10 years at a similar level. yandle being the type of player he is plays at this level for another 3-4.

oh, alright. but even then, I said other than age. And defensemen like Yandle that rely on skating and instincts tend to age better than most d-men. I can see Yandle being effective into his mid 30's

 

[Rangers in 7]

oh, alright. but even then, I said other than age. And defensemen like Yandle that rely on skating and instincts tend to age better than most d-men. I can see Yandle being effective into his mid 30's

my only concern is how productive will he be into his mid 30's...i just dont want him turning into another boyle who was a similar type of player, then again boyle was still able to put up points into his mid 30's but a better player then keith when he was younger

 

[Raspewtin]

my only concern is how productive will he be into his mid 30's...i just dont want him turning into another boyle who was a similar type of player, then again boyle was still able to put up points into his mid 30's but a better player then keith when he was younger

Boyle was still going strong until Lapierre tried to kill him in 2014 and he was never the same since.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Boyle was still going strong until Lapierre tried to kill him in 2014 and he was never the same since.

touche, but i would say his last above average year would have been when he was 35 in the 2011-2012 season, but still productive into his mid 30's. I feel that would be yandle if everything broke right for him. who knows

 

[Edge]

If Kreider ever scores 30 goals I'll eat my shoes.

he does not have the hands and his shot is just ok. When do we accept that this might be Kreiders best? which is fine, there's nothing wrong with a 2LW. but this whole waiting for Kreider to explode thing is getting old

I don't think he needs great hands to score 30 goals if he uses his size and speed to get into high percentage areas.

His size and strength make him VERY difficult to stop when he's playing with an edge and decides to take charge.

The question isn't so much overhauling his skills, as much as getting a consistent mindset.

To me, the areas you talk about - his hands and his shot being average, are why he isn't a 35-40 goal scorer. But I don't believe 25-30 goals, with his other skills, is a reach.

 

[Raspewtin]

I don't think he needs great hands to score 30 goals if he uses his size and speed to get into high percentage areas.

His size and strength make him VERY difficult to stop when he's playing with an edge and decides to take charge.

The question isn't so much overhauling his skills, as much as getting a consistent mindset.

To me, the areas you talk about - his hands and his shot being average, are why he isn't a 35-40 goal scorer. But I don't believe 25-30 goals, with his other skills, is a reach.

I don't believe it's a reach either, he's still a very talented player. And there's nothing wrong with the player he is today, big and fast second liners are valuable. But shouldn't we be getting to that point by now? He's turning 25 in two months. When can we officially declare this explosion is probably not going to happen?

 

[Edge]

I don't believe it's a reach either, he's still a very talented player. And there's nothing wrong with the player he is today, big and fast second liners are valuable. But shouldn't we be getting to that point by now? He's turning 25 in two months. When can we officially declare this explosion is probably not going to happen?

I think that's a very valid concern/point.

I think I may have had something similar somewhere else in this thread (or the first part, it all starts to blend together).

The truth is that with every passing season that Kreider doesn't take that next step, it does indeed become less likely. It's not a pleasant thought, but it has a lot of merit.

But I also think Kreider was/is pretty raw. Perhaps more than we've ever really realized.

The reason I still see the upside is mainly because I don't view the problem as one of skill, but rather of consistency. We've seen Kreider be successful when he's doing the things that fit his game.

Now I were expecting him to be a playmaker or a guy who carries his team, that wouldn't really be doable.

Kreider strikes me as the type of guy who can be an upper tier support player. There's no reason he can't produce in the same realm as Landeskog, Ladd, etc.

 

[Inferno]

Insert almost any player into this sentence..other than maybe like two or three and its true...

When xxxxxxxx plays with and edge every other part of their game seems to take off...when he plays passive everything else About his game sucks.

Brassard and maybe Hayes are probably the only two that this isn't true about...zuccs play has tailed off a bit of late, not surprisingly so has his physical play...stepans been passive all season...when he's physical all aspects of his game are better...since it decided to hit his scoring is going through the roof....kreider is no different..when he tries to plaster people through the boards he gets so much !more engaged....it seems to all start with hitting... Get involved physically and the rest will follow.

 

[Bluenote13]

A big problem is that his best example of someone who plays that kind of game consistently on the team to watch is JT Miller, another young guy who is just learning.

 

[Edge]

Insert almost any player into this sentence..other than maybe like two or three and its true...

When xxxxxxxx plays with and edge every other part of their game seems to take off...when he plays passive everything else About his game sucks.

Brassard and maybe Hayes are probably the only two that this isn't true about...zuccs play has tailed off a bit of late, not surprisingly so has his physical play...stepans been passive all season...when he's physical all aspects of his game are better...since it decided to hit his scoring is going through the roof....kreider is no different..when he tries to plaster people through the boards he gets so much !more engaged....it seems to all start with hitting... Get involved physically and the rest will follow.

While this is true, it's importance varies depending on the player/style of play.

Kreider doesn't really have some of the other skills to fall back on if he's not engaged. A guy like Zucc or Brassard does. It's a little easier for them to coast if the physical aspects aren't quite firing on all cylinders.

The other thing to consider is that Kreider, because of his size, strength and skating, can REALLY alter a game when he's engaged physically. There are few guys, period, who can keep up with Kreider. There is even fewwer guys who can keep up AND have the size that Kreider is blessed with. When he's on, he's handful for most players in the league.

The key to Kreider's game is simplicity - finish checks, go hard to the high percentage areas, don't worry about setting the table, know your destination on the ice.

 

[Inferno]

when kreider smashes people, when he punishes them with hits, his entire game looks completely different...he seems to get more and more angry...which gets him more engaged, which makes him go to dirtier areas, which makes him angrier, which makes him hunt down and separate guys from the puck...and then he takes a terrible penalty...and then hes kicked out of a game for boarding someone illegally, and then he starts playing passively, and then he stops going to the dirty areas, and then he starts coasting.....

the key is to get angry Hulk and less wussy Bannister

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

I don't think he needs great hands to score 30 goals if he uses his size and speed to get into high percentage areas.

His size and strength make him VERY difficult to stop when he's playing with an edge and decides to take charge.

The question isn't so much overhauling his skills, as much as getting a consistent mindset.

To me, the areas you talk about - his hands and his shot being average, are why he isn't a 35-40 goal scorer. But I don't believe 25-30 goals, with his other skills, is a reach.

That depends on who he is playing with. He isn't really a finesse player. He is a straight ahead bull in the vein of a power forward. He needs to play with bruisers to maximize his offensive potential. Despite his speed potential, I don't think he works that well with speedy skill guys.

With that said, Krieder needs to work on his shooting as of late. He will never have amazing hands but his shot can absolutely improve. Its too predictable now. Got to work on the mechanics.

I agree with you though. There is no reason he can't be a 25-30 goal scorer in this league if he puts forth the work.

 

[Blueshirt Believer]

A big problem is that his best example of someone who plays that kind of game consistently on the team to watch is JT Miller, another young guy who is just learning.

Miller has a better two way game than Krieder. Honestly, they're different type of player. Its hard to compare the two of them.

Miller has the potential to be one of the best two way players in the NHL today.

 

[Off Sides]

Kreider is two years away from group III. His game has evolved recently. He is scoring on deflections and tip ins like he did against the Caps and Flyers. He really good eye/hand coordination but he has not really used that skill. He seems more confident in holding onto the puck and making more plays instead of just shooting it or passing it immediately.

I thought he was 3 years away, but those playoffs back in the day count towards a year I guess.

Well that's not good.

Is this how it plays out if they keep him?

This summer

They qualify him

Don't bring him to arbitration cause he'd get to elect the two year award leaving him a UFA

If he does not bring them to arbitration, which the Rangers would then elect a 1 year deal, he ends up in limbo?

No deal, no arbitration, can sign an offer sheet or hold out?

If so, I do sort of wonder what they'll do, I thought he was 3 years away.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Kreider's has played well since he came back from that hand injury, and especially since he and Fast were separated. Physical engagement is important, but that might just be a piece of a mindset you hope he can occupy more: that is, making an impact every game, being the go-to guy. Personally, I think he's been consistently good, but the difference between he and Miller right now is that Miller (and we've heard it over and over again from Sam and Joe) has been trying to be noticable every night, make an impact. I feel Krieder could be more physical yes, but I also wish so bad he would stop being so deferential. He plays with Step and Zucc, two of the most unselfish players on an unselfish team, and it feels like he's always trying to set them up rather than getting himself into a shooting position himself. Nothing more frustrating to me about Krieder's game.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

That depends on who he is playing with. He isn't really a finesse player. He is a straight ahead bull in the vein of a power forward. He needs to play with bruisers to maximize his offensive potential. Despite his speed potential, I don't think he works that well with speedy skill guys.

With that said, Krieder needs to work on his shooting as of late. He will never have amazing hands but his shot can absolutely improve. Its too predictable now. Got to work on the mechanics.

I agree with you though. There is no reason he can't be a 25-30 goal scorer in this league if he puts forth the work.

He said he had worked on his shot all summer - I was so excited to see what he was going to bring at the start of the season.

 

[True Blue]

Miller has the potential to be one of the best two way players in the NHL today.

Not the Miller thread, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Miller has a better two way game than Krieder. Honestly, they're different type of player. Its hard to compare the two of them.

Miller has the potential to be one of the best two way players in the NHL today.

The only way that makes sense, is if you only watch the Rangers games. He isn't even the best 2-way player on our team

 

[True Blue]

The only way that makes sense, is if you only watch the Rangers games. He isn't even the best 2-way player on our team

I think that he is talking about potential, as opposed to the current level. Still, talk about setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think that he is talking about potential, as opposed to the current level. Still, talk about setting yourself up for disappointment.

He needs to work on his defensive abilities A LOT to make that happen.

 

[Miamipuck]

He needs to work on his defensive abilities A LOT to make that happen.

If he keeps playing this way, I am ok with the 1 way ability of Miller. He has Fast on his line, Fast can more than make up for Millers weakness on the defensive side. It's happening every game since they have been together.