Chris Kreider/JT Miller Discussion Thread (2/16: Kreider recalled to NHL)

[nyrpassion]

Maybe a showcase of Boyle?

 

[Thirty One]

Maybe a showcase of Boyle?

Maybe.

Almost definitely not, though.

 

[JCrusher*]

Yep, I won't argue that. You can tell it isn't a lack of effort, he just isn't letting himself naturally do things yet. He did the same thing at BC his first year or 2.

My problem with torts is that he never lets him figure i out. He gives JT chance after chance yet he doesnt do the same to our best prospect. Its obvious he likes JT more because he has a "mean streak" but i think kreider has more upside than JT to be honest

 

[Thirty One]

My problem with torts is that he never lets him figure i out. He gives JT chance after chance yet he doesnt do the same to our best prospect. Its obvious he likes JT more because he has a "mean streak" but i think kreider has more upside than JT to be honest

This whole "Torts loves Miller angle" your beating into is a bit silly.

He's played 4 games. He has one more game left to evaluate him. He's using it.

 

[JCrusher*]

This whole "Torts loves Miller angle" your beating into is a bit silly.

He's played 4 games. He has one more game left to evaluate him. He's using it.

Its called sarcasm dude.

 

[Thirty One]

Its called sarcasm dude.

If so, poorly executed sarcasm at that.

 

[JCrusher*]

If so, poorly executed sarcasm at that.

why are you being so nasty

 

[Thirty One]

why are you being so nasty

Well I don't think I am. If you feel so, I'm sorry.

But it seems to me you tried to label that sarcasm to withdrawal that argument. It it was sarcasm, I don't see how.

 

[JCrusher*]

Well I don't think I am. If you feel so, I'm sorry.

But it seems to me you tried to label that sarcasm to withdrawal that argument. It it was sarcasm, I don't see how.

I was joking around. I wasnt being serious. You obviouslt misinterpreted it happens

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I was joking around. I wasnt being serious. You obviouslt misinterpreted it happens

Were you also joking around when you said you didnt think Kreider looked defensively lost and generally disengaged so far this season? Because that would explain a lot too.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

And SSM, just so you know, you and I are on the same page when it comes to Kreider. I think he has a very high ceiling. But I am not in favor of just handing young players large roles. They need to earn them.

I'm not suggesting handing him any role.

I'm suggesting putting him with the right kind of players.

You can't ask a guy who has never been the one to control the puck on his own, to suddenly do it now.

If you want him to use one of his two biggest assets (skating and shooting) more consistently, then you need a guy who can get him the puck on a consistent basis.

You stick him with guys who are not that kind of player, and stick him in a defensive role, you are not going to get the most out of him. Plain and simple.

Been saying this since we drafted him. He excels on the rush, and he excels at getting the puck around the net. Look where he scores. Rush. Net.

A coach needs to maximize EACH player's strengths.

Call it a role, call it what ever you want. I'm not looking at it from a line-1 to line-4 perspective. I'm looking at as a lineup, a full bench of players. Finding the combinations that work. Finding the balance that works.

This is a problem with Tortorella. Forcing things. Forcing forcing forcing.

Right now the only clear natural, unforced chemistry in the forward lines, despite winning three in a row, is Hagelin-Stepan-Nash.

Richards-Gaborik does not work. Gaborik on the left does not work. It took an injury to Callahan for Tortorella to finally stop forcing the Stepan-Callahan thing to work.

Kreider needs a guy like Richards.

If the staff doesn't want to get Kreider to score goals, then trade him.

They want to develop a scoring winger they need to put him with a guy who can get him the puck.

Richards is struggling right now too. Gaborik refuses to move his feet. Tortorella said as much yesterday.

Give Richards a kick in the ass, too, by putting a fast skating winger on his side, who can shoot.

Process process process.

If the process includes forcing a player to toil in a role that has nothing to do with his skill set, then maybe the "process" needs to be re-evaluated.

"We want the player to develop the right way." Well, guess what, what they're doing isn't the right way for this player.

And folks wonder why we haven't been able to develop a scoring winger. The Rangers are chicken **** to "hand" a larger role to any young forward, unless they are mostly devoid of any natural offensive skills. Stepan is the only young forward in memory, that was allowed to play above the third line, that is a skilled offensive forward. Maybe other then Prucha, who didn't last.

If the player is on the roster, give him the ****ing opportunity. Otherwise, don't have him.

His defensive play has not been bad. At all. He has had enough sense to cover for pinching defensemen. He Skates hard. He backchecks. Picks up open men on the backcheck. He's a +4 over the last 4 games. Now, allow his offensive skills to come out. They won't with no one to pass him the puck.

A line of Kreider-Richards-Callahan would work.

Instead we can continue to beat the limp horse that's Richards-Gaborik. It hasn't worked.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

As for all the "Well Gaborik doesnt bust his ass out there" stuff, when Kreider becomes a perennial 40 goal scorer, Ill cut him some slack too.

 

[JCrusher*]

I'm not suggesting handing him any role.

I'm suggesting putting him with the right kind of players.

You can't ask a guy who has never been the one to control the puck on his own, to suddenly do it now.

If you want him to use one of his two biggest assets (skating and shooting) more consistently, then you need a guy who can get him the puck on a consistent basis.

You stick him with guys who are not that kind of player, and stick him in a defensive role, you are not going to get the most out of him. Plain and simple.

Been saying this since we drafted him. He excels on the rush, and he excels at getting the puck around the net. Look where he scores. Rush. Net.

A coach needs to maximize EACH player's strengths.

Call it a role, call it what ever you want. I'm not looking at it from a line-1 to line-4 perspective. I'm looking at as a lineup, a full bench of players. Finding the combinations that work. Finding the balance that works.

This is a problem with Tortorella. Forcing things. Forcing forcing forcing.

Right now the only clear natural, unforced chemistry in the forward lines, despite winning three in a row, is Hagelin-Stepan-Nash.

Richards-Gaborik does not work. Gaborik on the left does not work. It took an injury to Callahan for Tortorella to finally stop forcing the Stepan-Callahan thing to work.

Kreider needs a guy like Richards.

If the staff doesn't want to get Kreider to score goals, then trade him.

They want to develop a scoring winger they need to put him with a guy who can get him the puck.

Richards is struggling right now too. Gaborik refuses to move his feet. Tortorella said as much yesterday.

Give Richards a kick in the ass, too, by putting a fast skating winger on his side, who can shoot.

Process process process.

If the process includes forcing a player to toil in a role that has nothing to do with his skill set, then maybe the "process" needs to be re-evaluated.

"We want the player to develop the right way." Well, guess what, what they're doing isn't the right way for this player.

And folks wonder why we haven't been able to develop a scoring winger. The Rangers are chicken **** to "hand" a larger role to any young forward, unless they are mostly devoid of any natural offensive skills. Stepan is the only young forward in memory, that was allowed to play above the third line, that is a skilled offensive forward. Maybe other then Prucha, who didn't last.

If the player is on the roster, give him the ****ing opportunity. Otherwise, don't have him.

His defensive play has not been bad. At all. He has had enough sense to cover for pinching defensemen. He Skates hard. He backchecks. Picks up open men on the backcheck. He's a +4 over the last 4 games. Now, allow his offensive skills to come out. They won't with no one to pass him the puck.

A line of Kreider-Richards-Callahan would work.

Instead we can continue to beat the limp horse that's Richards-Gaborik. It hasn't worked.

Very Good Post. You seem to know your stuff. I agree when Kreider played with Richards against teh devils he was very aggressive and good near the net. The kid is a finisher he you acnt ask him to do it all by himself like nash does. Hopefully in a few years Kreider will be able to do that but like you said put him with richards/stepan and i gurantee he will score often

 

[JCrusher*]

As for all the "Well Gaborik doesnt bust his ass out there" stuff, when Kreider becomes a perennial 40 goal scorer, Ill cut him some slack too.

So you admit you hate Kreider?

 

[Thirty One]

So you admit you hate Kreider?

Well that's a leap.

 

[Nyrfan25]

Well that's a leap.

A leap ?
You don't like him since you think he won't become a 40 goal scorer !

lol

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

So you admit you hate Kreider?

Nope - did no such thing.

I admit I want him to develop into a complete player, like every other player who isnt capable of scoring 40+ goals.

This "put him with Richards so he can score goalz!" stuff is really, really ignorant.

 

[JCrusher*]

Well that's a leap.

I still dont know why you are being so nasty. I made one joke( thats wasnt even about you) and you took it personally. I respect you and your opinions i wish you did teh same to me

 

[JCrusher*]

Nope - did no such thing.

I admit I want him to develop into a complete player, like every other player who isnt capable of scoring 40+ goals.

This "put him with Richards so he can score goalz!" stuff is really, really ignorant.

Its not ignorant because he has looked hsi best with richards this season. I mean its not about making excuses it about how to best fit players in. In the playoffs kreider was much more effective when playing with stepan and richards. I just wish torts would give them some time together thats all

 

[*Bob Richards*]

Lets get back on topic shall we?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Its not ignorant because he has looked hsi best with richards this season. I mean its not about making excuses it about how to best fit players in. In the playoffs kreider was much more effective when playing with stepan and richards. I just wish torts would give them some time together thats all

Outside of one nice rush and shot against Brodeur in garbage time, Kreider has done nothing to earn a permanent top 6 spot.

I, for one, am thankful we have a coach that makes players earn that privilege rather than handing it to them because of upside, potential, whatever.

 

[Nyrfan25]

Its not ignorant because he has looked hsi best with richards this season. I mean its not about making excuses it about how to best fit players in. In the playoffs kreider was much more effective when playing with stepan and richards. I just wish torts would give them some time together thats all

I Thought Kreider looked his best with Callahan and Miller to be honest.
Which i am afraid we may not be seeing for a long time if at all.

 

[Thirty One]

I still dont know why you are being so nasty. I made one joke( thats wasnt even about you) and you took it personally. I respect you and your opinions i wish you did teh same to me

That was not the slightest bit nasty.

I think you could be less rigid in your thinking. You can say negative things about a player without hating him. It's not always black and white. I think many things about many players, some are good some are bad.

 

[JCrusher*]

Outside of one nice rush and shot against Brodeur in garbage time, Kreider has done nothing to earn a permanent top 6 spot.

I, for one, am thankful we have a coach that makes players earn that privilege rather than handing it to them because of upside, potential, whatever.

Garbage time? There was like 15 minutes left in regulation. The Bruins score 2 goals in the last minute of the game last game. Talk about ignorant. Also what is with all the Torts asskissers in here. He is a good coach but lets not act like he is better than every coach.

 

[BBKers]

I keep hearing people say kreider was tentative/lost but i didnt see that. In fact he played more physical last game. He also should have had a goal. it doesnt help when your shifts are so brief.

He has not find the groove yet. He does not look comfortable - but did not look bad. Just insecure. The system we are employing is quite the thing...