Cholowski's Ceiling

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think Cholowski ends up a good all-around player, but his play in the offensive zone looks much better than the play in his own end at this point to me.

He needs to get better at gapping up bigger/faster players. Not sure I see the IQ in his own end shining through just yet.

I think he is learning that. For the record that is one of the struggles I would say the guy people are comparing him to in this thread just a moment ago shines through time and again when I turn on Coyotes games. He doesn't gap up well all the time either yet. I really do think that Chychrun is Bogo right down to the fact he doesn't seem to be particularly healthy despite all that athleticism.

I guess I am a little surprised on a board that is constantly begging for a risk on the skill side that is Cholowski to a t. Take a guy with a tremendous late bloomer growth curve and work ethic and see what happens. Cholo might never be more than the same kind of middle pairing defender, sweet hopefully our entire second pair is made up of guys we passed on being one guy in our middle pair for... But Cholo's ceiling is still pretty high because of him being a late bloomer and a rink rat guy that has exploded over the last 18 months.

But admittedly I have been higher on Cholowski for a long time now. I have Rasmussen and then him as my 1 and 2 in the system, but that is also because I am not a crazy Zadina guy.

 

[Frk It]

I think he is learning that. For the record that is one of the struggles I would say the guy people are comparing him to in this thread just a moment ago shines through time and again when I turn on Coyotes games. He doesn't gap up well all the time either yet. I really do think that Chychrun is Bogo right down to the fact he doesn't seem to be particularly healthy despite all that athleticism.

I guess I am a little surprised on a board that is constantly begging for a risk on the skill side that is Cholowski to a t. Take a guy with a tremendous late bloomer growth curve and work ethic and see what happens. Cholo might never be more than the same kind of middle pairing defender, sweet hopefully our entire second pair is made up of guys we passed on being one guy in our middle pair for... But Cholo's ceiling is still pretty high because of him being a late bloomer and a rink rat guy that has exploded over the last 18 months.

I think Cholowski has good potential but I don’t know that I necessarily consider him a big “skill” guy. That’s more of how I think of Hronek, who literally handles the puck on par or better than half of our forward prospects, and has a bomb of a shot.

Collectively I like the duo. I’m at peace with that whole trade and whatnot. I just disagree with this thought process that a Chychrun is unskilled and is essentially done progressing as a player. I watched him a lot and that was never really my impression of him. But I’ve been wrong before, defenseman are really hard to project.

 

[Henkka]

I think Cholowski has good potential but I don’t know that I necessarily consider him a big “skill” guy. That’s more of how I think of Hronek, who literally handles the puck on par or better than half of our forward prospects, and has a bomb of a shot.

It was funny reading this after that kind of period, where Hronek was mostly surviving by firing pucks out of the D zone via boards and Cholowski will put Pavel-level backhand pass to Nyquist's tape and Gus scores.

 

[haulinbass]

I think Cholowski has good potential but I don’t know that I necessarily consider him a big “skill” guy. That’s more of how I think of Hronek, who literally handles the puck on par or better than half of our forward prospects, and has a bomb of a shot.

Collectively I like the duo. I’m at peace with that whole trade and whatnot. I just disagree with this thought process that a Chychrun is unskilled and is essentially done progressing as a player. I watched him a lot and that was never really my impression of him. But I’ve been wrong before, defenseman are really hard to project.

Hronek has pretty good offensive potential but during the prospect tournament and preseason Cholowski has easily outclassed Hronek in every aspect of offensive ability.

Honestly Cholowski has been Detroits best D. Going into camp I thought for sure Cholowski was going to need a year in the AHL. At this point I will be shocked if he gets sent down. A lot of players are best off developing and putting up points, growing their game and building confidants in lesser leagues. I think Cholowskis confidants and production will be just fine finishing his development in Detroit. I'm putting my money on him being up for the entire season.

 

[Frk It]

Hronek has pretty good offensive potential but during the prospect tournament and preseason Cholowski has easily outclassed Hronek in every aspect of offensive ability.

Honestly Cholowski has been Detroits best D. Going into camp I thought for sure Cholowski was going to need a year in the AHL. At this point I will be shocked if he gets sent down. A lot of players are best off developing and putting up points, growing their game and building confidants in lesser leagues. I think Cholowskis confidants and production will be just fine finishing his development in Detroit. I'm putting my money on him being up for the entire season.

Cholowski is outplaying him for sure, but that does not take away from what his skill set is.

 

[haulinbass]

Cholowski is outplaying him for sure, but that does not take away from what his skill set is.

No it doesn't.. But I'm not sure at what point anyone has ever seen Hronek as having more potential than Cholowski. I like both players a lot, I want them both to be great. But Chowloski was drafted for his high potential. He was a lot more raw than Hronek at the time of the draft and still got selected higher. He got selected higher because of the untapped potential.

 

[Frk It]

No it doesn't.. But I'm not sure at what point anyone has ever seen Hronek as having more potential than Cholowski. I like both players a lot, I want them both to be great. But Chowloski was drafted for his high potential. He was a lot more raw than Hronek at the time of the draft and still got selected higher. He got selected higher because of the untapped potential.

Draft position isn’t the end all be all. I’d bet Hronek goes a lot higher if he wasn’t stuck playing 8 min a night in a men’s league in his draft year.

I’ve thought he has more potential for probably 2 years, and Hronek has placed higher than Cholowski in our polls on here a few times I believe.

He’s just now making a case that he has stepped in front of him, IMO.

Also I think they were both incredibly raw when they were drafted.

 

[lomekian]

Ultimately, Hronek and Cholowski are quite different players stylistically and in terms of attribute. Whet we have seen so far is that Hronek consistantly performed to a very high level in the AHL after a couple of months slight 'teething'. We have also seen this preseason that Cholowski is capable of processing the game at NHL pace in transition, breakouts and QB-ing the power play, but still has work to do defensively and becoming a real offensive weapon.

I think Cholowski has shown that barring injury he will be an NHL-er. Hronek is slightly less clear, but his body of work to date would suggest that he has the talent level. At this stage, I'd have them as both likely having genuine 2nd pair ability in the medium term, but I'm not sure they are an obvious partnership.

 

[Shaman464]

Ultimately, Hronek and Cholowski are quite different players stylistically and in terms of attribute. Whet we have seen so far is that Hronek consistantly performed to a very high level in the AHL after a couple of months slight 'teething'. We have also seen this preseason that Cholowski is capable of processing the game at NHL pace in transition, breakouts and QB-ing the power play, but still has work to do defensively and becoming a real offensive weapon.

I think Cholowski has shown that barring injury he will be an NHL-er. Hronek is slightly less clear, but his body of work to date would suggest that he has the talent level. At this stage, I'd have them as both likely having genuine 2nd pair ability in the medium term, but I'm not sure they are an obvious partnership.

In no way has Cholowski shown he's an NHL-er. He has been consistently pretty awful at defense the whole preseason. He needs at least a year in the AHL to learn good decision making, gap control, and how to read the other team, before he should sniff the NHL.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

In no way has Cholowski shown he's an NHL-er. He has been consistently pretty awful at defense the whole preseason. He needs at least a year in the AHL to learn good decision making, gap control, and how to read the other team, before he should sniff the NHL.

You can't say this or risk to be called negative on here. The guy has a few nice plays and people are saying he looks like a future Norris caliber defenseman lol. He has a long way to go, if he was that good already he would be clearly a shoe in for a roster spot which he is not.Our defense is aging and terrible, a basement lottery team and his spot is uncertain. Even if he makes it, we are one of the worst teams in the league have a lot of injuries on D which is probably why he is even on the team.

 

[Pavels Dog]

You can't say this or risk to be called negative on here. The guy has a few nice plays and people are saying he looks like a future Norris caliber defenseman lol. He has a long way to go, if he was that good already he would be clearly a shoe in for a roster spot which he is not.Our defense is aging and terrible, a basement lottery team and his spot is uncertain. Even if he makes it, we are one of the worst teams in the league have a lot of injuries on D which is probably why he is even on the team.

The only real reason his NHL spot would be in question is because of two things: our LD being deeper than our RD, and Hronek/Sulak/Hicketts all being more pro experienced.
He has essentially been the standout best or top 2-3 prospect in everything from development camp to traverse city tournament and all the way through preseason.

The "few nice plays" is mindboggling to read. He has been so consistent through all this hockey with increasing intensity. If anything, a few defensive errors is causing a small minority of people to jump on the "he is trash defensively" train and want him slow cooked in AHL. Which is ridiculous given how many young d-men are given NHL roles despite being trash defensively, which Cholo isn't. There would probably be people here wanting Dahlin to start in the AHL based on his defensive mistakes in preseason. Some guys you gotta have confidence that they can grow and adjust at the highest level, and everything about Cholowski says he is processing the game at an NHL pace and just needs to make those small corrections to how he plays some defensive situations. That's stuff he isn't gonna really learn in the AHL, he has to do it against actual NHLers.

 

[raymond23]

The only real reason his NHL spot would be in question is because of two things: our LD being deeper than our RD, and Hronek/Sulak/Hicketts all being more pro experienced.
He has essentially been the standout best or top 2-3 prospect in everything from development camp to traverse city tournament and all the way through preseason.

The "few nice plays" is mindboggling to read. He has been so consistent through all this hockey with increasing intensity. If anything, a few defensive errors is causing a small minority of people to jump on the "he is trash defensively" train and want him slow cooked in AHL. Which is ridiculous given how many young d-men are given NHL roles despite being trash defensively, which Cholo isn't. There would probably be people here wanting Dahlin to start in the AHL based on his defensive mistakes in preseason. Some guys you gotta have confidence that they can grow and adjust at the highest level, and everything about Cholowski says he is processing the game at an NHL pace and just needs to make those small corrections to how he plays some defensive situations. That's stuff he isn't gonna really learn in the AHL, he has to do it against actual NHLers.

Preach.

 

[Shaman464]

The only real reason his NHL spot would be in question is because of two things: our LD being deeper than our RD, and Hronek/Sulak/Hicketts all being more pro experienced.
He has essentially been the standout best or top 2-3 prospect in everything from development camp to traverse city tournament and all the way through preseason.

The "few nice plays" is mindboggling to read. He has been so consistent through all this hockey with increasing intensity. If anything, a few defensive errors is causing a small minority of people to jump on the "he is trash defensively" train and want him slow cooked in AHL. Which is ridiculous given how many young d-men are given NHL roles despite being trash defensively, which Cholo isn't. There would probably be people here wanting Dahlin to start in the AHL based on his defensive mistakes in preseason. Some guys you gotta have confidence that they can grow and adjust at the highest level, and everything about Cholowski says he is processing the game at an NHL pace and just needs to make those small corrections to how he plays some defensive situations. That's stuff he isn't gonna really learn in the AHL, he has to do it against actual NHLers.

Usually I don’t say things like this but if you think the gaps in his game are small you really have no idea what you’re talking about. His defensive game is not pro lovel. Period. There’s major flaws in his ability to read, adjust and make plays on his end of the ice and add to this that his gap control is pathetic and he’s not physical at all he has nothing to bring that putting a forward in a defense slot wouldn’t bring. He needs to play a year in the AHL and learn how to play this game against pro level men.

 

[Frk It]

Usually I don’t say things like this but if you think the gaps in his game are small you really have no idea what you’re talking about. His defensive game is not pro lovel. Period. There’s major flaws in his ability to read, adjust and make plays on his end of the ice and add to this that his gap control is pathetic and he’s not physical at all he has nothing to bring that putting a forward in a defense slot wouldn’t bring. He needs to play a year in the AHL and learn how to play this game against pro level men.

You can develop your defensive game at the NHL level. Lots of guys have done that. It’s pretty common for guys defensive game to lag behind their offensive game. Guys like Subban and Letang were very roughy defensively when they were young but developed their defensive game by going up against the best players every night.

 

[Shaman464]

You can develop your defensive game at the NHL level. Lots of guys have done that. It’s pretty common for guys defensive game to lag behind their offensive game. Guys like Subban and Letang were very roughy defensively when they were young but developed their defensive game by going up against the best players every night.

PK Subban spent a year in the AHL, and Letang proved more at the CHL level, showing major offensive upside, AND Pittsburgh had a much better defense at the time, so his mistakes could be covered more easily. Neither of their situations were analogous.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

The only real reason his NHL spot would be in question is because of two things: our LD being deeper than our RD, and Hronek/Sulak/Hicketts all being more pro experienced.
He has essentially been the standout best or top 2-3 prospect in everything from development camp to traverse city tournament and all the way through preseason.

The "few nice plays" is mindboggling to read. He has been so consistent through all this hockey with increasing intensity. If anything, a few defensive errors is causing a small minority of people to jump on the "he is trash defensively" train and want him slow cooked in AHL. Which is ridiculous given how many young d-men are given NHL roles despite being trash defensively, which Cholo isn't. There would probably be people here wanting Dahlin to start in the AHL based on his defensive mistakes in preseason. Some guys you gotta have confidence that they can grow and adjust at the highest level, and everything about Cholowski says he is processing the game at an NHL pace and just needs to make those small corrections to how he plays some defensive situations. That's stuff he isn't gonna really learn in the AHL, he has to do it against actual NHLers.

Really? If he is this Norris caliber defenseman OEL prototype and better than players in his draft class already in the NHL like a lot of you guys are claiming he is.He should have nothing in the way of earning a spot especially on a team like this. More excuses....

 

[Ezekial]

Looks like he already won the spot.

 

[lomekian]

In no way has Cholowski shown he's an NHL-er. He has been consistently pretty awful at defense the whole preseason. He needs at least a year in the AHL to learn good decision making, gap control, and how to read the other team, before he should sniff the NHL.

Sorry I meant that he's shown he WILL BE an NHL-er. I agree more seasoning is in order, bar the odd look when injuries are a factor on the main squad.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Usually I don’t say things like this but if you think the gaps in his game are small you really have no idea what you’re talking about. His defensive game is not pro lovel. Period. There’s major flaws in his ability to read, adjust and make plays on his end of the ice and add to this that his gap control is pathetic and he’s not physical at all he has nothing to bring that putting a forward in a defense slot wouldn’t bring. He needs to play a year in the AHL and learn how to play this game against pro level men.

Right, I don't know what I'm talking about. Yet nearly every media outlet praises him. TV announcers and "experts" praise him. Blashill praises him with some minor notes on his defensive play. Neutral fans praise him. It looks like he has won an NHL job.

Is he perfect defensively? Of course not. But there is nothing "pathetic" about his play. I have no idea why you are so down on him, he looks like exactly the type of injection our D needs. You know all those D men we always drool over? Guys like Klingberg, Gostisbehere? They are pathetic defensively. No one cares. If Cholo can't contribute offensively and can't improve our puck movement, his defense will become a bigger point of focus. But he is point-per-game through preseason and on the + side. That is enough for now.

Really? If he is this Norris caliber defenseman OEL prototype and better than players in his draft class already in the NHL like a lot of you guys are claiming he is.He should have nothing in the way of earning a spot especially on a team like this. More excuses....

Who is saying he is Norris caliber? Stop mistaking what people see as his ultimate ceiling (a level he could reach 5+ years from now) for what people think he is right now. Of course a guy with only 1 pro game under his belt will have some learning to do. But it doesn't look like anything is in his way and he has outplayed all our other D so it's just a matter of figuring out the roster math when everyone gets healthy.

 

[lomekian]

Really? If he is this Norris caliber defenseman OEL prototype and better than players in his draft class already in the NHL like a lot of you guys are claiming he is.He should have nothing in the way of earning a spot especially on a team like this. More excuses....

The fact that you say 'like a lot of you guys are claiming' suggests you are fixating on the posts you disagree with. 2 people, maybe 3 max have said anything of the sort. Most others have said his ceiling is 2nd pair with a possibility of being a top pair guy if it all comes together, with others thinking he tops out in all likelihood as #5.

This thread is about ceiling, not current level.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Right, I don't know what I'm talking about. Yet nearly every media outlet praises him. TV announcers and "experts" praise him. Blashill praises him with some minor notes on his defensive play. Neutral fans praise him. It looks like he has won an NHL job.

Is he perfect defensively? Of course not. But there is nothing "pathetic" about his play. I have no idea why you are so down on him, he looks like exactly the type of injection our D needs. You know all those D men we always drool over? Guys like Klingberg, Gostisbehere? They are pathetic defensively. No one cares. If Cholo can't contribute offensively and can't improve our puck movement, his defense will become a bigger point of focus. But he is point-per-game through preseason and on the + side. That is enough for now.


Who is saying he is Norris caliber? Stop mistaking what people see as his ultimate ceiling (a level he could reach 5+ years from now) for what people think he is right now. Of course a guy with only 1 pro game under his belt will have some learning to do. But it doesn't look like anything is in his way and he has outplayed all our other D so it's just a matter of figuring out the roster math when everyone gets healthy.

Search the thread to see who said that.

The fact that you say 'like a lot of you guys are claiming' suggests you are fixating on the posts you disagree with. 2 people, maybe 3 max have said anything of the sort. Most others have said his ceiling is 2nd pair with a possibility of being a top pair guy if it all comes together, with others thinking he tops out in all likelihood as #5.

This thread is about ceiling, not current level.

I am responding to those who said that. Is it fixating to respond? Like how you are fixating on me calling out ridiculous predictions based on some preseason games?

 

[Shaman464]

Right, I don't know what I'm talking about. Yet nearly every media outlet praises him. TV announcers and "experts" praise him. Blashill praises him with some minor notes on his defensive play. Neutral fans praise him. It looks like he has won an NHL job.

Is he perfect defensively? Of course not. But there is nothing "pathetic" about his play. I have no idea why you are so down on him, he looks like exactly the type of injection our D needs. You know all those D men we always drool over? Guys like Klingberg, Gostisbehere? They are pathetic defensively. No one cares. If Cholo can't contribute offensively and can't improve our puck movement, his defense will become a bigger point of focus. But he is point-per-game through preseason and on the + side. That is enough for now.


Who is saying he is Norris caliber? Stop mistaking what people see as his ultimate ceiling (a level he could reach 5+ years from now) for what people think he is right now. Of course a guy with only 1 pro game under his belt will have some learning to do. But it doesn't look like anything is in his way and he has outplayed all our other D so it's just a matter of figuring out the roster math when everyone gets healthy.

Announcers are by definition hyperbolic. He "won" a job on a defense that is in shambles and it seems like an AIS move. There's no one who is saying he's a Norris caliber guy, or even many worth listening to saying he's a first pairing guy. And no one seems to be talking about his defense, they are cowed by him producing offense in the preseason. Its very unlikely to translate to the regular season, but his defensive gaffs are much more likely to be magnified in it.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

 

[Pavels Dog]

Search the thread to see who said that.

You need to more carefully read when people are talking about ceiling (could be 5-10 years from now) vs. what he is now.

Announcers are by definition hyperbolic. He "won" a job on a defense that is in shambles and it seems like an AIS move. There's no one who is saying he's a Norris caliber guy, or even many worth listening to saying he's a first pairing guy. And no one seems to be talking about his defense, they are cowed by him producing offense in the preseason. Its very unlikely to translate to the regular season, but his defensive gaffs are much more likely to be magnified in it.

Yeah we will see. I don't understand where the whole idea about Cholo being some flashy guy that people get "wowoed" by comes from though. He's a pretty smooth, under-the-radar type player. Hronek, Hicketts, Saarijarvi and Sulak are all flashier.

 

[SCD]

From a defensive standpoint, his biggest challenge has been playing with a different partner every night. Instead of knowing what his partner is going to do, he is trying to figure out what his opponent and partner are doing. I think we will see another big leap forward when he playing every night with the same guy.....and that begins next week in Detroit.