Cholowski's Ceiling

[Shaman464]

It's a good sign when every time Cholo touches the puck I feel calm. Nearly all the time he makes a good play and his passes are SUBLIME. Big difference from our other D who keep passing the puck into skates.

You shouldn't last night he was one of the worst defenders on the ice. He had the highest number of high danger chances against. I know he's shinny, but he's not good in his zone at all.

 

[Ezekial]

You shouldn't last night he was one of the worst defenders on the ice. He had the highest number of high danger chances against. I know he's shinny, but he's not good in his zone at all.

Well that's not true, he had 4, DDK had 5, Daley had 5 too.

E: for 20 year old playing his first NHL game on the top line he played really well, Hronek had 3 playing 4 less minutes on the third pairing.

 

[TheMule93]

You shouldn't last night he was one of the worst defenders on the ice. He had the highest number of high danger chances against. I know he's shinny, but he's not good in his zone at all.

What the hell are you even talking about? You're completely fabricating stats at this point

Columbus Blue Jackets @ Detroit Red Wings, 2018-10-04

comparing defenseman Cholowski was middle of the pack (#3) in terms of high danger scoring chances against, with 4. Unsurprisingly our two veteran defenseman in the lineup were the worst in that regard, Daley and then Dekeyser.

Same goes for regular scoring chances against - middle of the pack. Cholowski was tied for first on the team with the most scoring chances for. So at worst he was average defensively while being above average offensively.

 

[Shaman464]

What the hell are you even talking about? You're completely fabricating stats at this point

Columbus Blue Jackets @ Detroit Red Wings, 2018-10-04

comparing defenseman Cholowski was middle of the pack (#3) in terms of high danger scoring chances against, with 4. Unsurprisingly our two veteran defenseman in the lineup were the worst in that regard, Daley and then Dekeyser.

Same goes for regular scoring chances against - middle of the pack. Cholowski was tied for first on the team with the most scoring chances for. So at worst he was average defensively while being above average offensively.

For all ice time they did, but, if you take out PK high dancer against, they were dead even making him tied for the worst. If you want to count all the HDCA yes Cholo wasn't as bad ass DD and Daley, but that's not a fair measure easy.

And my measure had them all with 5 HDCA at 5v5 and DD and Daley with a ton when on the PK.

And 5 against is bad defensively. Its not average. If it were average than every team should average 15+ HDCA a game, and that's not anywhere near the average.

 

[Shaman464]

Well that's not true, he had 4, DDK had 5, Daley had 5 too.

E: for 20 year old playing his first NHL game on the top line he played really well, Hronek had 3 playing 4 less minutes on the third pairing.

4-5 in a game is really bad. Adjusted to his ice time that would mean 15+ HDCA per game (probably much more), which would make them the worst, allowing 30%+ more HDCA per 60 than the worst team last season, the Islanders.

My point isn't that he had a bad game. His O-zone game was good for a rookie. But the team defense was trash, and he was just as bad as everyone else, and at times one of the worst out there. So, lets not get ahead of ourselves making last night seem like an unqualified success for him.

 

[vladdy16]

He was clearly one of the best players on the ice all night.

There's only 60 minutes in a hockey game, and Cholowski's on ice career spans 19:51. If you need to use broad and anecdotal stats, to evaluate a players performance over 20 minutes of hockey, you're either doing it wrong, being disingenuous, or both.

It'd be really difficult to overstate the positives attached to Cholowskis development and level of play at this point.

 

[Pavels Dog]

You shouldn't last night he was one of the worst defenders on the ice. He had the highest number of high danger chances against. I know he's shinny, but he's not good in his zone at all.

I watched the game. Don't bring me "HDCA" lol. The team was outplayed, but when Cholo got the puck 9 times out of 10 (if not more) he made a good play, while all our other D were scrambling to ice the puck or lift it out of bounds. I don't know if you are expecting Norris-caliber defense out of a 20 year old in his first NHL game, but if you are then dial it back a bit.

 

[Henkka]

I watched the game. Don't bring me "HDCA" lol. The team was outplayed, but when Cholo got the puck 9 times out of 10 (if not more) he made a good play, while all our other D were scrambling to ice the puck or lift it out of bounds. I don't know if you are expecting Norris-caliber defense out of a 20 year old in his first NHL game, but if you are then dial it back a bit.

Yep.

I take the those elite offensive flashes any day of the week with a young defenceman, and let him do his mistakes. He has years of time to mature his defensive game patiently towards those Norris days. It's easier to teach defence, than elite offensive skill. Not vise versa, period.

Cholowski will have that package and that will be a great Red Wings story. Let's hope we can get and develop more these kind of guys and build a community, a winning hockey contender.

Enjoy the ride, and for everybody else, like Pavels Dog said, please do not come here to tout about every mistake he does. Because he does so many great things. Guy makes those 10 great plays, and some people just remember the only mistake.

 

[Invictus12]

I think it's worth noting here that just because a player is on the ice for chances against, doesn't mean the player is at fault. Cholo made one notable play that was bad, mainly in execution, not that he took the chance. I'm more concerned in how the player reacts to a difficult situation as oppose to whether he was there when it happened.

 

[Henkka]

Two games, 1+2 =3 points.

Involved 3/4 on our 4 scored goals in Total.

Not bad start.

 

[SCD]

Thrown into the fire and doing well. Those prime minutes will certainly help his point total.

 

[SuperScript29]

He has Martin Skoula kind of puck poise, I like it

 

[Konnan511]

Crisp clean passes damn near every time.

 

[Reality Check]

I'll be ecstatic if this guy can turn into a poor man's Rafalski.

 

[Shaman464]

I'm starting to be convinced he can be a #2 PMD.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm starting to be convinced he can be a #2 PMD.

If we can land that true anchor #1D-man it would allow him to slot in at #2 and Hronek hopefully to slot in at #3.

The problem is obviously it is hard to find that #1. Come on Karlsson you know you miss Z or come on Trouba you know you want to come home.

When I watch Cholowski I am not sure there is a more ideal partner for him than Trouba actually.

Either way all he can control is his own development. Cholowski has done a great job to date of that. I think he will make defensive gains, whether or not he can become great at that is a little harder to project. But he has the work ethic and he is a smart guy, hopefully he can put it all together and become a #1. That would be the kind of unlikely, but the percentage chance does exist for it to happen that we haven't really had play out for a little bit on this team.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Looks like a good one !

 

[Winger98]

I'd really like to see them quit having to put him on his off side.

 

[Henkka]

I'd really like to see them quit having to put him on his off side.

Nothing but good learning process. Lidström played 3 seasons with Paul Coffey on the off side.

How did that experiment pan out, after he was put back on the left after the Shanny-trade and Murphy aquirement...

Cholowski will get on the left for sure when we will have 3 good righties, don't have to worry about that.

 

[RedWingzz]

I'm very impressed so far. He has a calmness with the puck that in unteachable.

 

[snailderby]

Right now this guy ...

...has 3 points in 3 games, while this guy...

...has 0 points in 3 games.

Who needs the #1 pick?

 

[Henkka]

We should not joke with Dahlin, but debate against Chychryn could be the new Franzen vs. Hossa.

Gonna throw some fuel on fire...

So far Chychryn's achievements:

- Possible concussion (went through a protocol)
- knee1 injury
- knee2 injury

Jakob Chychrun left Wednesday's game to undergo the concussion protocol.
Chychrun had to do that after being hit into the boards by Eric Gryba. It's not clear what the results of Chychrun's testing were.
Source: Arizona Republic/Phoenix Gazette
Thu, Dec 22, 2016 10:30:00 AM

Jakob Chychrun left Friday's match versus Anaheim because of an upper-body injury.
He appeared to take a high elbow from Ducks forward Nick Ritchie and was slow to get up following the hit. Chychrun will be looked at Saturday morning, but may miss the Coyotes' game versus the New York Islanders.
Source: Arizona Republic/Phoenix Gazette
Sat, Jan 7, 2017 11:17:00 AM

Jakob Chychrun has undergone knee surgery and he is out indefinitely.
Chychrun was hurt this week during off-season training. The Coyotes expect him to make a full recovery and an update on his status will come when training camp begins on Sept. 14. The 19-year-old defender posted seven goals and 20 points in 68 games last season with Arizona as a rookie.
Source: Arizona Republic/Phoenix Gazette
Thu, Aug 3, 2017 05:48:00 PM

With the season over, Jakob Chychrun's lower-body injury was revealed to be another knee issue.
This isn't an aggravation of Chychrun's previous knee injury. He's going to need to have a procedure on it, but he has plenty of time now to recover.
Source: Arizona Republic/Phoenix Gazette
Apr 10 - 8:25 AM

...and we are still waiting him to return on the ice.

Maybe we dodged a bullet. Hope good for him, though, but injuries on early age could really hurt the development. When he wasn't even projected to be a top-pair guy, I think these problems will seal the deal.

I'm very happy to have Cholowski.

And Hronek just as a bonus.

(and that draft pick as a bonus, which will be got from Nielsen-trade, when he is traded in the far future by Yzerman)

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

We should not joke with Dahlin, but debate against Chychryn could be the new Franzen vs. Hossa.

Gonna throw some fuel on fire...

So far Chychryn's achievements:

- Possible concussion (went through a protocol)
- knee1 injury
- knee2 injury

...and we are still waiting him to return on the ice.

Maybe we dodged a bullet. Hope good for him, though, but injuries on early age could really hurt the development. When he wasn't even projected to be a top-pair guy, I think these problems will seal the deal.

I'm very happy to have Cholowski.

And Hronek just as a bonus.

(and that draft pick as a bonus, which will be got from Nielsen-trade, when he is traded in the far future by Yzerman)

That's awesome! If you're lucky maybe he'll get a gruesome career ending injury and then picking Cholowski will really make Holland look like a genius! Wouldn't that be great?!




Seriously. You're listing his injuries as achievements?

You're getting an awful lot of joy out of a 20 year old hockey player having some serious injuries. I know you want to paint Holland in a positive light regarding that draft trade, but your giddiness about this is pretty f***ed up.

 

[KJoe88]

Chyc-who?

Even if he was healthy (and hopefully will be soon), Cholo would STILL be the better defenseman.

 

[Frk It]

If we can land that true anchor #1D-man it would allow him to slot in at #2 and Hronek hopefully to slot in at #3.

The problem is obviously it is hard to find that #1. Come on Karlsson you know you miss Z or come on Trouba you know you want to come home.

When I watch Cholowski I am not sure there is a more ideal partner for him than Trouba actually.

Either way all he can control is his own development. Cholowski has done a great job to date of that. I think he will make defensive gains, whether or not he can become great at that is a little harder to project. But he has the work ethic and he is a smart guy, hopefully he can put it all together and become a #1. That would be the kind of unlikely, but the percentage chance does exist for it to happen that we haven't really had play out for a little bit on this team.

Yeah, I think they be would be great together. I’m curious to see what he looks like with a pure offensive defenseman like Green. Also curious to see how/if his minutes get cut once we get guys back from injury.

I think if you put him back on the left side he’s at worst the 2nd best LD on the team and should be able to push pretty hard for Dekeyser’s spot by the end of the year.