CHL/NCAA

[Otto]

This will 1000% screw over all the teams but especially the smaller market ones. Half the players in the league already want to play in London- imagine Michigan Or Boston College or Boston University recruiting some top tier player on a bottom feeder organization like Kingston. No chance that player stays on Kingston rather than going to any of those 3. In London they may stay- have a great coach, gm, winning culture, 9000 fans a night etc etc

And then imaging making that leap to Michigan or Boston College or Boston University and finding yourself in a crappy situation (lack of playing time, disagreements with coaching staff) and at that point you're stuck. At least in the CHL if you're in a crappy situation you can get moved to another team, and then your old team can recoup some assets.

 

[frontsfan67]

And then imaging making that leap to Michigan or Boston College or Boston University and finding yourself in a crappy situation (lack of playing time, disagreements with coaching staff) and at that point you're stuck. At least in the CHL if you're in a crappy situation you can get moved to another team, and then your old team can recoup some assets.

would they not just be able to come back? I’m confused. NCAA kids can come to the chl. That’s how kingston got Warren Foegele

But if they go from the OHL to the NCAA would they lose their OHL eligibility or can they flip flop whenever with this rule?




IMO if a team loses their players to the NCAA for nothing they should get some incentive from their league as that’s ridiculous losing your best players. This will turn the CHL more into the USHL. A 2 year program then they get to go the NCAA route. However this should eliminate guys going to the OJHL or BCHL

Let’s say a team goes out and trades for I don’t know Tyler Hopkins and then Hopkins decides he wants to go to Michigan- that team loses him for nothing and just wasted a bunch of assets.

 

[Petes1987]

would they not just be able to come back? I’m confused. NCAA kids can come to the chl. That’s how kingston got Warren Foegele

But if they go from the OHL to the NCAA would they lose their OHL eligibility or can they flip flop whenever with this rule?




IMO if a team loses their players to the NCAA for nothing they should get some incentive from their league as that’s ridiculous losing your best players. This will turn the CHL more into the USHL. A 2 year program then they get to go the NCAA route. However this should eliminate guys going to the OJHL or BCHL

Let’s say a team goes out and trades for I don’t know Tyler Hopkins and then Hopkins decides he wants to go to Michigan- that team loses him for nothing and just wasted a bunch of assets.

The league needs to put some safe guards in place that ensures players honour their OHL Standard Agreement until after they have played their 19 year old season. US College should only become an option in a players overage season. That being said I don’t think the majority of OHL players are looking at US College. Most are looking at attempting to get a pro contract and will stick with the CHL as it the fastest way to achieve that goal. Overage players may become an issue if this goes through. If it severely impacts teams getting overagers they may need reduce the number allowed per team to a lower number. In the OHL prior to 1985 teams were only allowed one overager and two from 1985 until 1998.

 

[Kingpin794]

Don't need safeguards. I don't understand why people think you're going to have a mass exodus of high end players. Most every first round pick gets signed right away from the CHL. So they aren't going to bolt. A good chunk of 2nd and 3rd rounders get signed after their D+1 season. So unless they want to leave before their 19 year old season for maybe limited minutes, most of those guys aren't leaving either.

 

[coolhandluc44]

Don't need safeguards. I don't understand why people think you're going to have a mass exodus of high end players. Most every first round pick gets signed right away from the CHL. So they aren't going to bolt. A good chunk of 2nd and 3rd rounders get signed after their D+1 season. So unless they want to leave before their 19 year old season for maybe limited minutes, most of those guys aren't leaving either.

I’m starting to lean that way too. There will be some outliers but I think the ones that might leave earlier are the really good overages not signed by NHL teams that maybe would have come back. Even then I still see most teams dressing 3 OA’s because those that leave for NCAA in their OA year will therefore create another opportunity for another player to be an OA that otherwise wouldn’t.

The other thing to that people are not thinking about is that not everyone wants to go to school or maybe not university. Someone can correct me, but your not going to NCAA as just a hockey player, you have academic responsibilities to adhere too. Some players might be thinking if hockey doesn’t work out they would rather train to be an electrician or plumber or any other trade which they could do at an Ontario College. Maybe some guys who don’t like school but are not good enough for the NHL see themselves making a decent living plying in the AHL or Europe. Going NCAA post CHL would just delay that.

There will also be players that like school but they just want to focus on hockey. They could play hockey and take online university/college courses ( which many players do while playing in the CHL which does not count towards their scholarship package but paid for by the league)

What I wonder is will players who played pro hockey be allowed in the NCAA. I’m thinking of the players who played a season or two in the ECHL or AHL. Isn’t there a guy who played in Swedish Elite League playing NCAA hockey? If that happens the NCAA could be even older.

The changes of NCAA eligibility could have such deep consequences. You can really good deep in the rabbit hole

 

[bigsportsfan]

On your last point. You are quite a bit off. For the 2023-24 season, NCAA hockey (64 teams) had 1,288 players that got regular ice time (skaters min 20 GP, goalies min 10 GP). That works out neatly to about 20 players per teams in a league roughly the same size as the entire CHL. So we have a similar player pool to compare. Of those 1,288 players, 111 were in the 17-19 age group (birth year 2006-2004). That’s about 1.7 per team. There were 159 20 year olds. About 2.5 per team. Ages 21-24 had 1,018 players. 15.9 per team. Junior aged players made up about 21% of regulars. 79% were 21-24. It’s not a junior league. Especially not if you’re not already a super high end 18/19 year old. I agree we may see a few more OA’s than normal take the NCAA option. But if they do, guess who’s spot they take now? Those 17-19 year old’s spot. I’d bet how many ever OA’s decide to go NCAA will roughly equal the number of new 17-19 year olds the CHL will get. It will balance. NCAA is just going to keep getting older. The recruiting battles will shift from kids that are 16 to OA’s.

My numbers were based on the 2016-17 season: The College Hockey Landscape: A Study of the 21-year-old Freshman - Neutral Zone

Really the age of NCAA players is somewhat irrelevant because things will change in the NCAA once some of the best 18 and 19 year old's in the world become eligible to play in the NCAA. Do you really think NCAA teams won't be interested in these talented players because their young? If they are going to help their program, they're going to be recruited. There will be some high end players who will leave and that will hurt the CHL.

In the 2023-2024 season, there were a total of 236 Men’s Hockey NCAA Division I players who have been drafted by an NHL team. (236 NHL draft picks are currently playing college hockey - Lets Play Hockey)

There were 10 NCAA teams with at least 10 NHL draftees on their roster:
Boston College – 14 (4 were first-round draft picks)
Boston University – 14
University of Massachusetts – 13
University of Minnesota – 13
University of Wisconsin – 13
Denver University – 12
Harvard University – 11
University of Michigan – 11
University of North Dakota – 11
University of Minnesota-Duluth – 10

Here is a neat fact. Boston College brought in $2,592,474 in revenue from its men’s ice hockey program while paying out $4,360,627 in expenses. That means the program lost $-1,768,153. (Boston College Athletics Programs) But since they are financed by the college, they don't need to turn a profit so they can concentrate on building the best program possible. I doubt many CHL teams have a budget of $4.3 million and are okay losing $1.7 million per season. Some of these college teams have player facilities that would rival NHL teams.

Remember, the NCAA is the top developmental league for most professional North American Sports Leagues (NBA, NFL, etc.) Is it really that hard to imagine them becoming the top developmental league for the NHL, especially now when the top 18 and 19 year old's become eligible to leave the CHL for the NCAA. This opens the door for them to do that.

 

[Ryan Christensen]

I've watched the frozen four and memorial cup . Chl is by far a better league

 

[Kingpin794]

My numbers were based on the 2016-17 season: The College Hockey Landscape: A Study of the 21-year-old Freshman - Neutral Zone

Really the age of NCAA players is somewhat irrelevant because things will change in the NCAA once some of the best 18 and 19 year old's in the world become eligible to play in the NCAA. Do you really think NCAA teams won't be interested in these talented players because their young? If they are going to help their program, they're going to be recruited. There will be some high end players who will leave and that will hurt the CHL.

In the 2023-2024 season, there were a total of 236 Men’s Hockey NCAA Division I players who have been drafted by an NHL team. (236 NHL draft picks are currently playing college hockey - Lets Play Hockey)

There were 10 NCAA teams with at least 10 NHL draftees on their roster:
Boston College – 14 (4 were first-round draft picks)
Boston University – 14
University of Massachusetts – 13
University of Minnesota – 13
University of Wisconsin – 13
Denver University – 12
Harvard University – 11
University of Michigan – 11
University of North Dakota – 11
University of Minnesota-Duluth – 10

Here is a neat fact. Boston College brought in $2,592,474 in revenue from its men’s ice hockey program while paying out $4,360,627 in expenses. That means the program lost $-1,768,153. (Boston College Athletics Programs) But since they are financed by the college, they don't need to turn a profit so they can concentrate on building the best program possible. I doubt many CHL teams have a budget of $4.3 million and are okay losing $1.7 million per season. Some of these college teams have player facilities that would rival NHL teams.

Remember, the NCAA is the top developmental league for most professional North American Sports Leagues (NBA, NFL, etc.) Is it really that hard to imagine them becoming the top developmental league for the NHL, especially now when the top 18 and 19 year old's become eligible to leave the CHL for the NCAA. This opens the door for them to do that.

Sure it opens the door if most of the high end Canadian kids don't want to sign contracts, are ok not getting the NIL money their American counterparts are getting, or that they have to be student-athletes instead of just athletes.

I've watched the frozen four and memorial cup . Chl is by far a better league

Again it's silly to say one of these leagues are better than the other. They serve different player groups. They are both good.

 

[OHL4Life]

Sure it opens the door if most of the high end Canadian kids don't want to sign contracts, are ok not getting the NIL money their American counterparts are getting, or that they have to be student-athletes instead of just athletes.


Again it's silly to say one of these leagues are better than the other. They serve different player groups. They are both good.

i would bet 99 percent of players under the age for 20 stay, only guys who may be questionable would be someone like a cowan who is so good the leafs may want him to go play against 23 year olds.

parekh may be in the same boat next year, but his biggest issues are off ice.

 

[Kingpin794]

i would bet 99 percent of players under the age for 20 stay, only guys who may be questionable would be someone like a cowan who is so good the leafs may want him to go play against 23 year olds.

parekh may be in the same boat next year, but his biggest issues are off ice.

Except Cowan couldn't go to the NCAA. Either the CBA will have to change or the NCAA will have to let guys with contracts play. Now if THAT happens, the CHL could take a bigger hit.

 

[OHL4Life]

Except Cowan couldn't go to the NCAA. Either the CBA will have to change or the NCAA will have to let guys with contracts play. Now if THAT happens, the CHL could take a bigger hit.

educate me, why couldnt he? drafted out of the chl has to stay in the chl?

 

[Kingpin794]

educate me, why couldnt he? drafted out of the chl has to stay in the chl?

Once you sign an NHL contract, you can't play NCAA hockey. Unless NHL teams want to tell their prospects to go to the NCAA and not be signed? Would they even have that kind of say if they aren't signed?

 

[OHL4Life]

Once you sign an NHL contract, you can't play NCAA hockey. Unless NHL teams want to tell their prospects to go to the NCAA and not be signed? Would they even have that kind of say if they aren't signed?

will that remain the same with all the lawsuits? i dont know enough about it

 

[Kingpin794]

will that remain the same with all the lawsuits? i dont know enough about it

That's what I was saying a few posts above. If the NCAA decides to let signed guys play, that will have a major effect on the CHL. Personally I don't think they let that happen. That would open a whole can of worms for the other major sports.

 

[OHL4Life]

That's what I was saying a few posts above. If the NCAA decides to let signed guys play, that will have a major effect on the CHL. Personally I don't think they let that happen. That would open a whole can of worms for the other major sports.

will it be up to them? couldnt the courts decide that for them, much like they are now?

 

[Kingpin794]

will it be up to them? couldnt the courts decide that for them, much like they are now?

The current lawsuit has standing, but saying the NCAA has to let people with pro contracts play is quite another matter. That would be significantly harder to change unless they want to change it themselves.

 

[OHL4Life]

The current lawsuit has standing, but saying the NCAA has to let people with pro contracts play is quite another matter. That would be significantly harder to change unless they want to change it themselves.

interesting, thank you

 

[coolhandluc44]

i would bet 99 percent of players under the age for 20 stay, only guys who may be questionable would be someone like a cowan who is so good the leafs may want him to go play against 23 year olds.

parekh may be in the same boat next year, but his biggest issues are

In the Cowan example: Is playing half the amount of games in NCAA good for his development? You see alot of times college players have a hard time adjusting to the NHL schedule as they are not playing as much and start to get gassed in the middle of the season. Also he would have to be a student too. Im sure there must be rules where he has to attend classes. I have said it before but I think a lot of people are forgetting that you are not just going to NCAA as a hockey player, you are also a student.

 

[coolhandluc44]

The current lawsuit has standing, but saying the NCAA has to let people with pro contracts play is quite another matter. That would be significantly harder to change unless they want to change it themselves.

I think it would be more likely guys not on a current contract but have played pro. For example a guy that played a year or two in the ECHL/AHL and decided it might be better to go to school

 

[OHL4Life]

In the Cowan example: Is playing half the amount of games in NCAA good for his development? You see alot of times college players have a hard time adjusting to the NHL schedule as they are not playing as much and start to get gassed in the middle of the season. Also he would have to be a student too. Im sure there must be rules where he has to attend classes. I have said it before but I think a lot of people are forgetting that you are not just going to NCAA as a hockey player, you are also a student.

yes, playing against 23/24 would be a new challange

I think it would be more likely guys not on a current contract but have played pro. For example a guy that played a year or two in the ECHL/AHL and decided it might be better to go to school

those would be the 95 percent of players, the guys this summer who signed ahl deals would now go to the ncaa, but we all know that we are talking about the 19 year olds that may leave, if they will be able to do so.

i dont think an ncaa school would want a 18 year old unless they are truly high high high end. all the top ontario commits at 16 are for them to show up at 19, not 18.

 

[Corso]

will that remain the same with all the lawsuits? i dont know enough about it

The NCAA is meeting in October to begin discussing changes to eligibility rules. From what I've been hearing, they may begin allowing players to play in professional leagues as long as they are not paid (such as players in Europe being loaned to the SHL from their junior teams). So even with the impending rule/eligibility changes, a player like Cowen who signed an entry level contract will remain ineligible to play NCAA hockey.

 

[OHL4Life]

The NCAA is meeting in October to begin discussing changes to eligibility rules. From what I've been hearing, they may begin allowing players to play in professional leagues as long as they are not paid (such as players in Europe being loaned to the SHL from their junior teams). So even with the impending rule/eligibility changes, a player like Cowen who signed an entry level contract will remain ineligible to play NCAA hockey.

interesting, not sure that its the wrong call. to be honest i dont know how much it matters, those guys are the 1 percent of players that would be effected by the change.

 

[OMG67]

Don't need safeguards. I don't understand why people think you're going to have a mass exodus of high end players. Most every first round pick gets signed right away from the CHL. So they aren't going to bolt. A good chunk of 2nd and 3rd rounders get signed after their D+1 season. So unless they want to leave before their 19 year old season for maybe limited minutes, most of those guys aren't leaving either.

This potential rule change favours the CHL. It will allow the players that want to go the NCAA route to play CHL hockey. It will then be up to their OHL team to ensure they want to stay.

For example. If Malhotra could play OHL and then play NCAA, he’d do that. It would be up to Kingston to provide an environment that suits players needs. If the environment sucks and the player isn’t comfortable, they can leave. So, it is up to the OHL teams to be better.

Besides, this conversation surrounds players that are already not playing here. Even if a player like Malhotra were to play two years for Kingston, that is two more years than he is playing now.

 

[coolhandluc44]

This potential rule change favours the CHL. It will allow the players that want to go the NCAA route to play CHL hockey. It will then be up to their OHL team to ensure they want to stay.

For example. If Malhotra could play OHL and then play NCAA, he’d do that. It would be up to Kingston to provide an environment that suits players needs. If the environment sucks and the player isn’t comfortable, they can leave. So, it is up to the OHL teams to be better.

Besides, this conversation surrounds players that are already not playing here. Even if a player like Malhotra were to play two years for Kingston, that is two more years than he is playing now.

And I think that is why some NCAA coaches are against it. I think there worried that really high profile players like a Maholtra will not make it to them. You see it all the time in sports where players get drafted to a team or traded to a team that they wouldn’t have been their choice but once they get there they like it and want to stay. I don’t buy this argument from NCAA coaches that the NCAA is so far and above the CHL that they don’t need CHL players because if your so confident that you are the best, then shouldn’t your attitude be you don’t care because what you have to offer is far and above the best?

 

[OMG67]

And I think that is why some NCAA coaches are against it. I think there worried that really high profile players like a Maholtra will not make it to them. You see it all the time in sports where players get drafted to a team or traded to a team that they wouldn’t have been their choice but once they get there they like it and want to stay. I don’t buy this argument from NCAA coaches that the NCAA is so far and above the CHL that they don’t need CHL players because if your so confident that you are the best, then shouldn’t your attitude be you don’t care because what you have to offer is far and above the best?

I think that is short sighted thinking on their part. The CHL churns out a tremendous amount of high quality players that don’t profile well as Professionals. However, they are all highly refined 21 year olds. They could end up signing a player like Jack Beck or Deni Goure who would both provide a significantly higher impact from day one than Malhotra. They’d be able to offer scholarships to players on the spot and suit them up inside 3 months.

The organizations that would more likely suffer are the CIS schools. The quality players that choose to go CIS will have NCAA opportunities.