CHL/NCAA

[swoopster]

From the article:

"If freedom of movement between the CHL and the NCAA does come, Kosior doesn’t think it will lead to any kind of mass exodus from the Canadian junior system. Where it could impact the CHL is with the potential for elite players to spend a couple of years in junior, say their age 16 and 17 years, before leaving for an NCAA scholarship and possibly a pro career after that..."

Something I touched on.

 

[Otto]

This may happen sooner rather than later...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1823342226144964858

 

[Kingpin794]

Good.

This will be good for the CHL too. The issue with guys leaving for the USHL or BCHL now is that they have to go to those leagues for 16-19 year old years to keep eligibility. If this goes through, they would almost certainly go the CHL instead and then off to NCAA for 19+ if they still want to take that route.

 

[OHL4Life]

its weird that windsor asked the kid to play games knowing it would kill his eligibility.

its weird that the kid played knowing it would kill his eligibility.

im very sure that he could still play and just need to sit a year, it has happened before.

 

[donjohnson]

The list of schools is interesting...I'm assuming those are all private schools. That has come up with the "unionizing" issue in college sports and only private institutions are subject to the US National Labor Relations Board/Act (NLRB/NLRA). I'm wondering why they didn't list all of the private institutions but maybe it was a limiting factor.

I find it hard to believe that in the NIL environment that exists today that a judge wouldn't find in favor of Masterson and the Class. Especially with the recent NCAA settlement that will allow schools to directly compensate their athletes in addition to the scholarship. That is essential the structure of the CHL...education package plus a stipend...it will mirror what the NCAA is now doing and I think this is a slam dunk case for Masterson and the other hockey players.

 

[OHL4Life]

The list of schools is interesting...I'm assuming those are all private schools. That has come up with the "unionizing" issue in college sports and only private institutions are subject to the US National Labor Relations Board/Act (NLRB/NLRA). I'm wondering why they didn't list all of the private institutions but maybe it was a limiting factor.

I find it hard to believe that in the NIL environment that exists today that a judge wouldn't find in favor of Masterson and the Class. Especially with the recent NCAA settlement that will allow schools to directly compensate their athletes in addition to the scholarship. That is essential the structure of the CHL...education package plus a stipend...it will mirror what the NCAA is now doing and I think this is a slam dunk case for Masterson and the other hockey players.

i think your right. i hate that the kid knowingly threw away his eligibility and instead of owning it like others have, he complains and sues.

its like committing a crime and complaining about the penalty

I hope its just to expedite him being cleared and not trying to make money off of a decision that he knowingly made.

 

[OMG67]

The list of schools is interesting...I'm assuming those are all private schools. That has come up with the "unionizing" issue in college sports and only private institutions are subject to the US National Labor Relations Board/Act (NLRB/NLRA). I'm wondering why they didn't list all of the private institutions but maybe it was a limiting factor.

I find it hard to believe that in the NIL environment that exists today that a judge wouldn't find in favor of Masterson and the Class. Especially with the recent NCAA settlement that will allow schools to directly compensate their athletes in addition to the scholarship. That is essential the structure of the CHL...education package plus a stipend...it will mirror what the NCAA is now doing and I think this is a slam dunk case for Masterson and the other hockey players.

100%. Well said. I think the landscape has changed. It is time all organizations/leagues catch up and get on the same page.

 

[Otto]

its like committing a crime and complaining about the penalty

Except in this case the "crime" was committed by the NCAA. It's not a valid rule if it breaks antitrust laws. Also, doesn't look good that it's not applied in all circumstances

https://x.com/i/web/status/1823351023877943545

 

[donjohnson]

i think your right. i hate that the kid knowingly threw away his eligibility and instead of owning it like others have, he complains and sues.

its like committing a crime and complaining about the penalty

I hope its just to expedite him being cleared and not trying to make money off of a decision that he knowingly made.

I don't think this is fair. He made a decision to try to make the OHL and also who knows what he was told by the coach or GM of the Spits. Now, he's just fighting for his options and he's likely going to win which doesn't really seem like he committed a crime.

 

[OHL4Life]

Except in this case the "crime" was committed by the NCAA. It's not a valid rule if it breaks antitrust laws. Also, doesn't look good that it's not applied in all circumstances

https://x.com/i/web/status/1823351023877943545

we can agree to disagree. at the time he made that decision, the ncaa had its rules and he knew that and moved forward with doing it anyways. at the time, no one was questioning weither or not the rules are right or wrong and still no one knows if the rules are right or wrong as the lawsuit simply being filed doesnt make it true, and i dont think any labour lawyers are posting on here.

my kid was never good enough to do anything but if he was and he made a decision that he knew would close a door, just or not, i would like to think that he would make that decision and move forward with it. if he wanted to fight against the rule and effect change, awesome. but if he wants a payday for a decision, when he knew would have ramifications of that decision and did so without any pressure, that seems offside to me.

I don't think this is fair. He made a decision to try to make the OHL and also who knows what he was told by the coach or GM of the Spits. Now, he's just fighting for his options and he's likely going to win which doesn't really seem like he committed a crime.

i can tell you everyone, everyone knows that if you play a game, you lose your eligibility. i cant tell you how many kids have come to our camp and walked away from a potential chance to do those eligibility rules. they made a decision and stuck to it. they are not suing the ncaa about a lost chl opportunity due to the exhibition game rule.

i dont know the kid but i know the league and point a game 19 year olds dont get d1 schollarships. i hope hes doing it to open the door for future generations, not looking for a pay day.

 

[OHL4Life]

i will say that most ohl teams wont play a kid like that who is unsigned just to protect the kid from himself, why windsor played him is beyond me.

almost every ohl team can pick a roster without resorting to asking kids to play games without being signed, why windsor cant do the same is a bad look for them and the league.

 

[Kingpin794]

Saying “he knew the rules” isn’t an amazing thing to bring up. Rules can be harmful. Rules change. Lawsuits are a way to change rules. Can’t really bring a lawsuit if there isn’t a claimed unfair hurdle to challenge in the first place. If he ends up winning, then the rule was legally unfair and whether he knew the rule or not isn’t important.

(In fairness I also mention that yes the legal system can also be hijacked to make unfair things legal too).

 

[OHL4Life]

Saying “he knew the rules” isn’t an amazing thing to bring up. Rules can be harmful. Rules change. Lawsuits are a way to change rules. Can’t really bring a lawsuit if there isn’t a claimed unfair hurdle to challenge in the first place. If he ends up winning, then the rule was legally unfair and whether he knew the rule or not isn’t important.

(In fairness I also mention that yes the legal system can also be hijacked to make unfair things legal too).

and thats why i hope hes doing it to open the door for others, not to cash in on it.

its like the minimum wage lawsuits and the chl, those kids knew what they were getting into when they signed, they knew what they were getting and what they were not getting. after the fact they want more. those are rules as well and lawyers and third parties will argue they are not fair either.

ironically most kids would make less if it were to come into effect.

there is no proof that this kid is actually good enough to be a d1 player, so what doors where truly closed?

 

[HockeyPops]

Most have probably seen other articles by now, but for those that haven't.

New lawsuit challenges NCAA’s ban on CHL players – Sportsnet.ca

 

[Squirrel88]

'Bout time. I frankly don't care if the kid is doing this for the money, although the reality is that the lawyers are the only ones that will really make bank.

The hypocrisy of the NCAA is legendary. I hope those sanctimonious suits get hit with huge punitive damages. The amateurism defence reeks of the same classism that was prevalent in the Olympic sports, golf and others once upon a time.

Play in a professional men's league overseas - no problem
Play in the USHL for a stipend - no problem
Play in the CHL for a stipend - hold on, we can't have that!

Pretty clear that it is anti-competitive behaviour.

Hopefully this also results in a change to the 2 year signing period for CHL players drafted to the NHL, since they will have more options. I think NHL teams are less likely to take a risk on a CHL player in the later rounds, knowing that they have to make a decision on them within a couple years.

 

[donjohnson]

'Bout time. I frankly don't care if the kid is doing this for the money, although the reality is that the lawyers are the only ones that will really make bank.

The hypocrisy of the NCAA is legendary. I hope those sanctimonious suits get hit with huge punitive damages. The amateurism defence reeks of the same classism that was prevalent in the Olympic sports, golf and others once upon a time.

Play in a professional men's league overseas - no problem
Play in the USHL for a stipend - no problem
Play in the CHL for a stipend - hold on, we can't have that!

Pretty clear that it is anti-competitive behaviour.

Hopefully this also results in a change to the 2 year signing period for CHL players drafted to the NHL, since they will have more options. I think NHL teams are less likely to take a risk on a CHL player in the later rounds, knowing that they have to make a decision on them within a couple years.

If you are talking about the CHL/NHL transfer agreement that is another animal... That's an outside agreement agreed to by the professional league and they would be the one to change that. Just like the NBA has the "1yr" rule so they don't get HS kids anymore.

Sure there are some kids who are ready for the AHL at 18 or 19 but most drafted kids are not. I don't mind the transfer agreement because it keeps the CHL strong and doesn't put 18yos against 26yos in the AHL who aren't ready and could get seriously injured.

 

[Kingpin794]

I do find it interesting though that you get some form of the same argument from both sides regarding this lawsuit.

NCAA diehards: "Good! Serves the CHL right. Treating kids like slaves. They'll be able to escape that now."

CHL diehards: "Good! The NCAA is full of hypocrites profiting off the hard work of athletes. Enjoy our leftovers."

The fanatics always keep the "rivalry" between the two systems alive but i think most of us fall in-between the two ends and just want the best for these players period.

 

[Kingpin794]

If you are talking about the CHL/NHL transfer agreement that is another animal... That's an outside agreement agreed to by the professional league and they would be the one to change that. Just like the NBA has the "1yr" rule so they don't get HS kids anymore.

Sure there are some kids who are ready for the AHL at 18 or 19 but most drafted kids are not. I don't mind the transfer agreement because it keeps the CHL strong and doesn't put 18yos against 26yos in the AHL who aren't ready and could get seriously injured.

Yep. Even most high end NCAA guys aren't showing up to the AHL before 20. The current agreement isn't a hindrance. All these guys are making their way to pro hockey around 20-21 years old.

 

[Corso]

'Bout time. I frankly don't care if the kid is doing this for the money, although the reality is that the lawyers are the only ones that will really make bank.

The hypocrisy of the NCAA is legendary. I hope those sanctimonious suits get hit with huge punitive damages. The amateurism defence reeks of the same classism that was prevalent in the Olympic sports, golf and others once upon a time.

Play in a professional men's league overseas - no problem
Play in the USHL for a stipend - no problem
Play in the CHL for a stipend - hold on, we can't have that!

Pretty clear that it is anti-competitive behaviour.

Hopefully this also results in a change to the 2 year signing period for CHL players drafted to the NHL, since they will have more options. I think NHL teams are less likely to take a risk on a CHL player in the later rounds, knowing that they have to make a decision on them within a couple years.

The single reason the NCAA instituted the CHL "boycott" was to prevent older Canadians from filling up rosters and displacing American born high school and prep school graduates. The University of Minnesota, for example, loathed Michigan Tech's recruitment practices that involved bringing in 20 and 21 year old former Major A players that would physically pound the crap out of the younger Gopher players. The changing of the NHL entry draft in the late 70's and the NHL-CHL agreement gave schools like Minny the perfect excuse as to why the NCAA had to ban CHL players.

They were now drafted and signed NHL players participating in a "professional' development league, thus tainting all players who suited up, whether signed or not.

Fast forward today, and the NCAA is once again an older league. True freshmen recruits constitute about 5-7% of all first-year players. The primary feeder leagues operate in a style very similar to the CHL, with the exception of having signed NHL players. Yet former CHL players are allowed to play in these feeder leagues without "tainting" the other "amateur" players. College players today routinely compete in tournaments that feature "professional" players and of course the whole notion of "amateurism" has been buried and forgotten in the age of NIL and revenue sharing.

I would be very surprised if the NCAA even bothers to mount a defense in this suit. They will settle with the "aggrieved" players and quickly strike down the bylaws preventing CHL players from playing

 

[donjohnson]

I would be very surprised if the NCAA even bothers to mount a defense in this suit. They will settle with the "aggrieved" players and quickly strike down the bylaws preventing CHL players from playing

I agree with this...I believe I read something that the CHL ban was one of the items outlined in a report of where the NCAA had exposure to lawsuits. While the court system can take time, I agree that this one could be resolved pretty darn quickly.

 

[OHL4Life]

I agree with this...I believe I read something that the CHL ban was one of the items outlined in a report of where the NCAA had exposure to lawsuits. While the court system can take time, I agree that this one could be resolved pretty darn quickly.

that’s a bit where I struggle, the kid isn’t good enough to play in the ncaa so it’s just a ploy to get a payday from a lawyer

results will be great but we’re coming either way, at least now it’ll be pushed through quicker

 

[Kingpin794]

that’s a bit where I struggle, the kid isn’t good enough to play in the ncaa so it’s just a ploy to get a payday from a lawyer

results will be great but we’re coming either way, at least now it’ll be pushed through quicker

At a Michigan, BC, UND etc? No. There's plenty of mid and lower tier D1 schools that would take him.

 

[OHL4Life]

At a Michigan, BC, UND etc? No. There's plenty of mid and lower tier D1 schools that would take him.

I don’t think so, point a game 19 year olds in the jr b loop at very common.

The jr b loop only gets 2 D1 commits a year

 

[Kingpin794]

I don’t think so, point a game 19 year olds in the jr b loop at very common.

The jr b loop only gets 2 D1 commits a year

Well yeah. Junior B usually isn't a place guys with NCAA intentions guys go. I'd argue there are plenty of guys in junior B good enough talent wise to make NCAA rosters, they just don't want to take that route.

 

[OHL4Life]

Well yeah. Junior B usually isn't a place guys with NCAA intentions guys go. I'd argue there are plenty of guys in junior B good enough talent wise to make NCAA rosters, they just don't want to take that route.

I don’t think they are that attractive to d1 schools. I do t think it’s that they don’t want to I know they do, they don’t get offers