CHL/NCAA

[RayzorIsDull]

NCAA hockey only makes a fraction of the money of Football or basketball. I’d be shocked if any hockey players even at quality programs were making any meaningful NIL money.

If you saw the vehicles they drive NIL is alive and well. They're not eating cheeseburgers and pizza anymore.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Jeff Merick just had another article today about this issue. Says the American side had formed a committee to review it. He says it is a matter of when not if it will happen.
Hopefully someone knows how to link that in here. Im not too techy for doing that.

Rink Fries: NCAA considering next steps in allowing CHL players

In this week's collection of notes, Jeff Marek writes about the latest from the NCAA as they consider if, or how to, allow CHL players; why it's the end for this group of Maple Leafs; Juuse Saros trade talk; and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[ohloutsider]

Rink Fries: NCAA considering next steps in allowing CHL players

In this week's collection of notes, Jeff Marek writes about the latest from the NCAA as they consider if, or how to, allow CHL players; why it's the end for this group of Maple Leafs; Juuse Saros trade talk; and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

Thanks! That is it!

 

[swoopster]

For the sake of argument, lets say the NCAA opens its doors to CHL players. I will use the Saginaw Spirit as an example.
Zayne Parekh will be a first round draft pick by some NHL team. Supposed that team would prefer that he play for some major NCAA powerhouse... the reason, playing against older competition. He leaves. The Spirit have lost a valuable asset that they might have traded off for future rebuilding picks. They are now at a total loss, both an active player gone and future considerations for said player lost. He may not go at 18, but what of the following year?

 

[dirty12]

For the sake of argument, lets say the NCAA opens its doors to CHL players. I will use the Saginaw Spirit as an example.
Zayne Parekh will be a first round draft pick by some NHL team. Supposed that team would prefer that he play for some major NCAA powerhouse... the reason, playing against older competition. He leaves. The Spirit have lost a valuable asset that they might have traded off for future rebuilding picks. They are now at a total loss, both an active player gone and future considerations for said player lost. He may not go at 18, but what of the following year?

Entirely possible the OHL becomes a younger and weaker league with the trade off being more of the top ON 16-17 yr olds going to Kitchener and London; and more early round drafted US born reporting to US teams.
The OHL will need an agreement that allows its players AHL access at the same age as US and European players eventually. Ideally with the same 10 game limit as the NHL now.

 

[swoopster]

This is the case that brought it all to a head.

https://casetext.com/case/buckton-v-national-collegiate-athletic-assn

Bill Buckton, Pete Marzo and Dick Decloe were all part of the case of Buckton vs NCAA. I was playing at the time and remember it well. Marzo was allowed to continue playing at BU, Buckton who only played 12 games with the Generals was declared ineligable as was Dick Decloe who played with London. It set a precident that those playing Tier 1 Junior Canadian hockey were considered professional.

 

[bcspragu]

For the sake of argument, lets say the NCAA opens its doors to CHL players. I will use the Saginaw Spirit as an example.
Zayne Parekh will be a first round draft pick by some NHL team. Supposed that team would prefer that he play for some major NCAA powerhouse... the reason, playing against older competition. He leaves. The Spirit have lost a valuable asset that they might have traded off for future rebuilding picks. They are now at a total loss, both an active player gone and future considerations for said player lost. He may not go at 18, but what of the following year?

Chl will remain a 16-19 year old league, oas only as kids with no ncaa aspersions. Ncaa will be 20-23 after players leave Chl. Ncaa is already this age for 90+% of players

 

[swoopster]

Chl will remain a 16-19 year old league, oas only as kids with no ncaa aspersions. Ncaa will be 20-23 after players leave Chl. Ncaa is already this age for 90+% of players

Unless you are deemed ready to play... BU's Maklin Celebrini is 17 yo, turns 18 June 13th.
BC's Will Smith played at 18 yo, born March 17 2005.

Trust me, If available, Zayne Parekh now 18, born 2-15-2006, would be playing for ANY NCAA team he chose.

 

[OHL4Life]

Unless you are deemed ready to play... BU's Maklin Celebrini is 17 yo, turns 18 June 13th.
BC's Will Smith played at 18 yo, born March 17 2005.

Trust me, If available, Zayne Parekh now 18, born 2-15-2006, would be playing for ANY NCAA team he chose.

any agreement would respect signed cards in theory, the ncaa doesnt want the celebrinis of the world to leave to go to the chl either, so there will be standard there. i would think the best 20 year olds would go to ncaa unless they have no interest in school, other then that i would think it would be all the same.

 

[swoopster]

I disagree. NCAA hockey programs would love to take the top pics of the OHL as well as top US born players. The problem is a 16 yo drafted by the OHL is not college eligible, advantage CHL. A US or Canadian prospect has the option of signing an agreement to play in the top US Junior leagues. His options remain fluid. At any time he may commit to a US NCAA program or decide on the CHL. An NCAA player my leave and play CHL ( if of league age, and only to the team that drafted him, unless a trade is agreed apon ) with no constrictions. So there are more options for said player. The Spirit have drafted several players recently who went the US Junior route and played in NCAA hockey. Adam Fantilli was their #1 draft pick in 2020. He played USHL and one year at Michigan, now in the NHL.

The problem is at what age can the NCAA make an offer to CHL players. This affects the CHL's ability to trade players and satisfy roster spots. Many more contingencies have to be in place to make it work for both concerns or the results could create a variety of negative impacts.

 

[OHL4Life]

I disagree. NCAA hockey programs would love to take the top pics of the OHL as well as top US born players. The problem is a 16 yo drafted by the OHL is not college eligible, advantage CHL. A US or Canadian prospect has the option of signing an agreement to play in the top US Junior leagues. His options remain fluid. At any time he may commit to a US NCAA program or decide on the CHL. An NCAA player my leave and play CHL ( if of league age, and only to the team that drafted him, unless a trade is agreed apon ) with no constrictions. So there are more options for said player. The Spirit have drafted several players recently who went the US Junior route and played in NCAA hockey. Adam Fantilli was their #1 draft pick in 2020. He played USHL and one year at Michigan, now in the NHL.

The problem is at what age can the NCAA make an offer to CHL players. This affects the CHL's ability to trade players and satisfy roster spots. Many more contingencies have to be in place to make it work for both concerns or the results could create a variety of negative impacts.

ok, disagree. I disagree with your opinion. but you’re allowed to have it.

that’s about that now.

 

[Kingpin794]

Unless you are deemed ready to play... BU's Maklin Celebrini is 17 yo, turns 18 June 13th.
BC's Will Smith played at 18 yo, born March 17 2005.

Trust me, If available, Zayne Parekh now 18, born 2-15-2006, would be playing for ANY NCAA team he chose.

Except he wouldn't be. He'd be stuck in some lower league like the USHL or BCHL getting way less attention. And that's still always going to be the draw back for Canadian kids that want to go the NCAA route. You don't get the same exposure. Unless you're a late birthday or a special case, you aren't playing NCAA hockey in your draft year. You take a hit in your draft stock. Is Parekh still a possible top 10 pick if he's playing on the Waterloo Blackhawks instead of a Memorial Cup team? You get like 5 OHL players taken for every USHL player that isn't on the NTDP (estimating). Obviously that ratio is much more lopsided for the CHL as a whole. Yes the USHL is getting better. That doesn't mean it's that great yet. At the end of the day this is about getting AMERICANS to show up to CHL teams not preventing Canadians from going to the NCAA.

 

[swoopster]

"I disagree. NCAA hockey programs would love to take the top pics of the OHL as well as top US born players. The problem is a 16 yo drafted by the OHL is not college eligible, advantage CHL. "

I don't disagree with you at all KP. As a 16 yo top Canadian born CHL prospect, I wouldn't want to be paying in another country, with less exposure and tradition than I grew up with..

However, my point is Zayne Parekh playing from 16 to 18 with Saginaw and then drafted by NHL team who would like him at some point leave the CHL and play NCAA hockey.

At this point nobody knows what this agreement is. I don't think the NCAA would ever create language that favors American movement between leagues and excludes those same rights to Canadian or US born CHL players. So for now its all theoretical speculation.

 

[Kingpin794]

I don't disagree with you at all KP. As a 16 yo top Canadian born CHL prospect, I wouldn't want to be paying in another country, with less exposure and tradition than I grew up with..

However, my point is Zayne Parekh playing from 16 to 18 with Saginaw and then drafted by NHL team who would like him at some point leave the CHL and play NCAA hockey.

At this point nobody knows what this agreement is. I don't think the NCAA would ever create language that favors American movement between leagues and excludes those same rights to Canadian or US born CHL players. So for now its all theoretical speculation.

I don't think NHL clubs would want guys shifting between leagues though. I know in other sports like football and basketball they transfer all the time but that's before they are drafted. They are trying to get in the best position to help get them even get the opportunity to get to the next level. Because the development time is so much longer for hockey players, I think NHL GM's are going to be fine letting kids finish out their CHL careers and if need be have them play NCAA at an older age. Might see one or two guys move over at 18/19 but I wouldn't expect it to be a trend.

 

[Corso]

What isn't discussed here is the real possibility that the NHL changes the draft into a two tiered structure. One or two rounds featuring elite 18-year-old players and seven rounds featuring 20 year olds.

The CHL eligibility is all but assured now, I don't think there are many that feel otherwise (sure collegehockeyinc is hoping it aint so but it's a fool's hope).

The NCAA itself will be a totally different animal within the next year or two. Athletes will be paid directly Attorney says settlement being considered in NCAA antitrust case could withstand future challenges and all that remains to be seen is how will this impact the lesser non revenue sports such as hockey.

 

[Kingpin794]

What isn't discussed here is the real possibility that the NHL changes the draft into a two tiered structure. One or two rounds featuring elite 18-year-old players and seven rounds featuring 20 year olds.

The CHL eligibility is all but assured now, I don't think there are many that feel otherwise (sure collegehockeyinc is hoping it aint so but it's a fool's hope).

The NCAA itself will be a totally different animal within the next year or two. Athletes will be paid directly Attorney says settlement being considered in NCAA antitrust case could withstand future challenges and all that remains to be seen is how will this impact the lesser non revenue sports such as hockey.

That's the other thing I wonder about. If some school do a revenue sharing system, then schools with all D1 programs like U of M, Notre Dame, BC etc could pay the hockey players a decent amount. Can't imagine schools like Denver, UND, BU and others though are raking in huge amounts of NIL money. Most guys could probably make more off signing bonuses from their ELC's than they would NIL. Wouldn't be able to get that signing bonus money in the NCAA.

 

[Corso]

That's the other thing I wonder about. If some school do a revenue sharing system, then schools with all D1 programs like U of M, Notre Dame, BC etc could pay the hockey players a decent amount. Can't imagine schools like Denver, UND, BU and others though are raking in huge amounts of NIL money. Most guys could probably make more off signing bonuses from their ELC's than they would NIL. Wouldn't be able to get that signing bonus money in the NCAA.

It would certainly widen the gap in college hockey even more so, and it's a pretty wide gap right now. Smaller conferences and programs will most likely re-form into a D-II league while the remaining dozen or so programs will at least try and compete with the larger D-1 schools and do their best in engaging in a revenue sharing agreement.

 

[swoopster]

It would certainly widen the gap in college hockey even more so, and it's a pretty wide gap right now. Smaller conferences and programs will most likely re-form into a D-II league while the remaining dozen or so programs will at least try and compete with the larger D-1 schools and do their best in engaging in a revenue sharing agreement.

you beat me to it. The consolidation in NCAA hockey will be no different than that of football. Already the Big Ten has created a super league in hockey. Hockey East may have some teams that can't compete . So the possibility of a couple of Super Divisions and the rest playing in a less competitive league.

 

[Whispering]

The Junior Hockey violates antitrust law might make the water cloudy.

Lawsuit: Junior hockey violates antitrust law

A class-action suit was filed Wednesday in federal court in New York arguing that the major junior hockey system in North America violates U.S. antitrust law.

www.espn.com

 

[Kingpin794]

The Junior Hockey violates antitrust law might make the water cloudy.

Lawsuit: Junior hockey violates antitrust law

A class-action suit was filed Wednesday in federal court in New York arguing that the major junior hockey system in North America violates U.S. antitrust law.

www.espn.com

This doesn’t muddy anything. That lawsuit is going nowhere. They bring up how much AHL/ECHL players make and yeah no duh. Those are PRO leagues. Also pretty sure players aren’t making a stipend of the same size in lesser major junior leagues like USHL/BCHL/NAHL. Major junior players can be given signing bonuses that junior players in NCAA feeder leagues can’t. Also an anti trust suit would mean that lack of competition or options are being artificially created. That’s certainly not the case. Players can leave the CHL and go the USHL or other leagues if they want. The only one at the moment they can’t pursue is the NCAA and that’s on the NCAA to open the doors. Sue them. Having ONE option eliminated does not violate anti trust laws.

 

[OHL4Life]

The Junior Hockey violates antitrust law might make the water cloudy.

Lawsuit: Junior hockey violates antitrust law

A class-action suit was filed Wednesday in federal court in New York arguing that the major junior hockey system in North America violates U.S. antitrust law.

www.espn.com

same lawsuit from the same people for 10/15 years, and it never goes anywhere. sandra slater was part of the chlpa and now shes the head of this group. shes part of that gumbly group.

 

[Otto]

The Junior Hockey violates antitrust law might make the water cloudy.

Lawsuit: Junior hockey violates antitrust law

A class-action suit was filed Wednesday in federal court in New York arguing that the major junior hockey system in North America violates U.S. antitrust law.

www.espn.com

It really doesn't, just some gly by night lawyers looking to get their names out there. There is so much factually incorrect stated in this article that they don't stand a chance

 

[HockeyPops]

This is a pretty good piece about where this is at currently.

A reckoning for junior hockey that could change it forever

Canada's system of developing young hockey players faces a shift that could rock the sport and the country.

nationalpost.com

 

[Corso]

Adam Wodon

@CHN_AdamWodon

The fact that NCAA coaches recently formed a committee to explore this is somewhat funny - since the pace of change will outpace whatever they do, but is classic NCAA inertia. Might as well hammer this out - TODAY.
Quote

Adam Wodon

@CHN_AdamWodon
·
1h
I'll reserve further kicking and screaming about how this is all terrible news for the college sports we love - because, it's irrelevant. Nothing I say matters. ... So -- how about the ramifications for college hockey? ... Major Junior players being eligible is coming soon. x.com/chnews/status/…

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Adam Wodon
@CHN_AdamWodon

The fact that NCAA coaches recently formed a committee to explore this is somewhat funny - since the pace of change will outpace whatever they do, but is classic NCAA inertia. Might as well hammer this out - TODAY.
Quote

Adam Wodon

@CHN_AdamWodon
·
1h
I'll reserve further kicking and screaming about how this is all terrible news for the college sports we love - because, it's irrelevant. Nothing I say matters. ... So -- how about the ramifications for college hockey? ... Major Junior players being eligible is coming soon. x.com/chnews/status/…

https://x.com/i/web/status/1793995363965337817

With amateurish all finished it will be interesting what happens. The NCAA was always a farce they were merely interested in policing and not governing. Eventually the schools were always going to run the asylum. I would like to thank Sonny Vaccaro for that 40 years before our time. Should have listened to him.