CHL/NCAA

[OMG67]

All true. But you can do road trips where you visit clusters of teams where the clusters include teams from different divisions. Your Windsor, Sarnia, London trip, teams in two different divisions, could just as well be Windsor, Sarnia, Guelph, which would mean teams in two different conferences. I remember seeing the 67’s on a trip down our way where they stayed in Cambridge as a home base for the weekend and played Kitchener, Guelph, Owen Sound or Kitchener and Owen Sound, returned back to the hotel in Cambridge between games and played Oshawa on the way home. I’ve seen Belleville do the same thing using the same hotel in Cambridge as a home base. Using your format of visiting clusters, as long as that home base hotel can be centrally located between the three, all is good.

My reasoning for having an outpost team or teams in each of the four divisions is in fairness. I suppose you could do a division of the three northern teams plus Barrie and Owen Sound, call it the northern division, and then creat a division between London, Kitchener, Guelph, Brantford, and Brampton. Which division’s travel would you rather have?

Also, doing it the way I’ve done it, you have teams from all four divisions, who at some point play teams within their division along the 401 corridor. That matters when it comes to scouts wanting to get out to see your team play. Sure, scouts make it to all the buildings, but games more centrally, located get way more eyes than games in some of these outposts.

Rivalry games are a way to ensure reasonable travel for most teams that are subject to being outpost teams. That component will always be there.

The one area we hadn’t discussed about a 24 team league is schedule. If there are 12 teams per conference and 6 teams per division, if we keep it relatively balanced, we’d have 24 out of conference games (home and home), 24 opposing division games in conference (home and home x2) for a total of 48 games. That leaves only 4 games per team inter-division to get to 68 games. I don’t think there is an appetite to get to 78 games allowing each team to play 6 games against opponents int heir own division. IMO, since this conversation is a lot about travel and the league is all about lessening travel for the players to be able to concentrate on school, there needs to be some sort of unbalanced schedule.

Maybe opposing Conference games are alternating Home and Home over a two year period similar to how the WHL approaches their schedule. That gets us to 12 games vs opposing conference and 24 vs opposing division inter-conference for a total of 36 games outside division. 32 games remain in division. That is 6x vs each team in division plus an extra two against your rival team. That may go a long way towards reducing travel as well but may make out of division rivalry games more difficult.

 

[Corso]

What i wonder is do these two USHL teams have the money to pay for their players scholarship packages. The last stat information I could find was that the league pays out 3.5 million in scholarships for graduated players. On average that would 175000 per team. And I don’t think that takes into account current players who might be completing courses while playing that teams pay for. Plus if these teams think there going to mainly get American players, there education cost will be higher.

Plus their travel cost would be higher and scouting cost (both for the draft and scouting other teams current roster and prospects) would also be higher as the geographical region would be much higher.

So it’s easy to see how the operating cost would be much higher for what it would be if they went into the OHL compared to the USHL

Travel costs would probably be a bit lower, but you are absolutely correct in everything else you wrote. There is no way the ownership of either franchise with the current revenue coming in could afford the costs associated with playing in the OHL. Now some might say that a move to the OHL would in and of itself grow the fan base in their respective markets, but I have serious doubts that would be so. Perhaps Muskegon would fare a bit better as they would have two in state rivals and Michigan has some familiarity with the OHL but Youngstown Ohio? Just don't see it.

 

[frontsfan67]

The Soo in a Northern division has been bantered about quite a bit and it's been stated that it just wouldn't work. Especially when the ferry from Manitoulin Island stops running.. it would be a 7.5 hour trip to Owen Sound. Right now their longest trip is 5 hours .. the Northern division would see every trip being 5 hours except 1

It’s a 9 hour drive from kingston to SSM

 

[ScoutLife4]

Some Ohl and USHL teams already doing 8-9 bus rides.
I don't really see the issue if they are asking to join the league and apparently neither do they.
Chances are you just wouldn't see them play the eastern ontario teams until a championship series.

 

[OMG67]

Some Ohl and USHL teams already doing 8-9 bus rides.
I don't really see the issue if they are asking to join the league and apparently neither do they.
Chances are you just wouldn't see them play the eastern ontario teams until a championship series.

I had mentioned this regarding schedule. I think it would be similar to what they do in the WHL with the American Division. The American Division and Eastern Division play each other only once per year. So one year the Eastern Team does the long road trip out there and the other year the other division does it. If it were the same here, it wouldn’t be a home and home withthe opposing conference. It would be a Home OR Away each year. It also resolves issues with a somewhat balanced schedule.

Opposing Conference = 1 game each = 12 games
Opposing Division = 4 games each = 24 games
Inter-Division = 6 games each = 30 games
Rivalry Games = 2 extra vs one team = 2 games
Total = 68 games

 

[SarniaStingFan]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849803842029842645

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849845002458861680

 

[OMG67]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849803842029842645

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849845002458861680

If I had to guess, I would suggest the amendment would deal with the rights being extended for CHL drafted players that play NCAA. For example, if a 5th round CHL player is drafted and then commits and plays for an NCAA team, the NHL would retain the player rights in the same manner as they hold the rights of NCAA drafted players.

 

[bcspragu]

Travel costs would probably be a bit lower, but you are absolutely correct in everything else you wrote. There is no way the ownership of either franchise with the current revenue coming in could afford the costs associated with playing in the OHL. Now some might say that a move to the OHL would in and of itself grow the fan base in their respective markets, but I have serious doubts that would be so. Perhaps Muskegon would fare a bit better as they would have two in state rivals and Michigan has some familiarity with the OHL but Youngstown Ohio? Just don't see it.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that it may become way cheaper to run a CHL program here in the near future. Right now the education package expires if a player doesnt use it in time or signs pro. If CHL players are allowed to go NCAA as expected, I can 100% seeing the CHL voiding (or NCAA rules prohibiting) education packages for players who sign NCAA scholarships to play hockey. I would assume the vast majority of CHLers who age out are going to attempt to play NCAA hockey if they have the grades for it, which could in turn see WAY fewer education package dollars being spent by CHL teams.

 

[Otto]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1852494738135425245

 

[Leviathan899]

Here is a question I have. What about the players who were undrafted in the OHL who are 2007 birthdays who now would consider playing in the league but previously were on an NCAA path? Players in the US and also the Prep Hockey Conference with hockey powers like Shattuck and St Andrews College. A young man from Missasauga on SAC last season is currently playing in the BCHL and was never drafted in the OHL. Would he have been a free agent to sign with any OHL team? Just postulating the influx of kids who now have the OHL as an option for next year but were undrafted. Thoughts appreciated

Yeah he could sign with an OHL team at anytime in that case. Born in Ontario makes you eligible automatically.

 

[Leviathan899]

If I were the OHL commissioner, I would be trying to find potential investors to buy out the Muskegon ownership group and move the team to Detroit and set up some type of affiliation with Little Ceasars and the Red Wings. I would definitely look at getting a team in Buffalo, preferably with some association with the Sabers and I would look at allowing Youngstown in with the intent of moving them to Columbus. Why? Because having NHL affiliations in the U.S. will go a loooooong way in raising the profile of your league in the U.S.
And yes, I would also approach the Steel (who are owned by the same company that owns the Blackhawks) and invite them into the league.

A Detroit Little Caesars OHL team would be awesome. I want this now.

 

[swoopster]

Now that I could see!!!

 

[EvenSteven]

A Detroit Little Caesars OHL team would be awesome. I want this now.

Would they get better attendance than Plymouth? Or would they need to with DLC ownership?

 

[Corso]

Would they get better attendance than Plymouth? Or would they need to with DLC ownership?

Having an association with the Red Wings would ensure financial stability and give the time needed to grow a solid fan base. I absolutely believe, that in time, they would have a much more robust fan support than the Plymouth Whalers ever did.

 

[Leviathan899]

Would they get better attendance than Plymouth? Or would they need to with DLC ownership?

No, you’re probably right. I more so reacted in haste there and just thought the idea of an OHL team in Little Caeser jerseys would be cool. But I don’t think it would work.

 

[Savard18]

Would they get better attendance than Plymouth? Or would they need to with DLC ownership?

No. Probably worse. Nobody went to Jr. Red Wing games before they became Plymouth and then Flint. It’s the American version of the GTA. It would be US Brampton. I remember going to see #1 OA NHL pick Brian Berard and nobody was there.

 

[Donnie740]

I would propose that goalies do not count towards either the underage or overage limits. Canada needs to develop goalies and this would in theory allow more time develop although a small part nonetheless.

That’s a fantastic idea, I’d advocate for it 100%.

I don’t see it having any impact on developing pro level goalies - - if they have that kind of talent they’ll already be drafted and in the AHL at a minimum - - but it will definitely improve the overall talent level in the OHL.

There’s definitely more OA goalie talent available than OA forward/defence talent. A guy like Jake Oster is the reigning top goalie of the OHL but can’t get an NHL contract.

There’s ZERO possibility of the league’s top forward or top defenseman being unsigned and playing in the OHL as an OA.

Then you have a guy like Liam Stuska who gets dumped on the scrap heap and has to go to the QMJHL as an OA. You can’t tell me Stuska isn’t better than at least 15 to 20 goaltenders currently in the OHL.

 

[Section7fan]

That’s a fantastic idea, I’d advocate for it 100%.

I don’t see it having any impact on developing pro level goalies - - if they have that kind of talent they’ll already be drafted and in the AHL at a minimum - - but it will definitely improve the overall talent level in the OHL.

There’s definitely more OA goalie talent available than OA forward/defence talent. A guy like Jake Oster is the reigning top goalie of the OHL but can’t get an NHL contract.

There’s ZERO possibility of the league’s top forward or top defenseman being unsigned and playing in the OHL as an OA.

Then you have a guy like Liam Stuska who gets dumped on the scrap heap and has to go to the QMJHL as an OA. You can’t tell me Stuska isn’t better than at least 15 to 20 goaltenders currently in the OHL.

Goalies can take longer to develop so making more spots available in the OHL could actually help.

 

[Otto]

Tell me again how the OHL will suffer from this?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853205540572209255

 

[leafs4life94]

Tell me again how the OHL will suffer from this?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853205540572209255

I don't think we'll be able to truly tell until players are able to start leaving before the end of of their OHL eligibility but I agree big picture I don't see how it's a negative.

I do wonder what the NHL's plan is for draft eligibility since if you're drafted out of the OHL I believe teams hold rights for a shorter period than if you go the college route.

 

[agillarda]

Tell me again how the OHL will suffer from this?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853205540572209255

The problem wouldn't be in the 16 year olds not coming to the league, it would be in the 18 and 19 year olds leaving for NCAA, like sure Montgomery is reporting now, but will be gone next year. If Valentini for example reported to the Rangers he could be gone after next season to NCAA.

 

[OMG67]

The problem wouldn't be in the 16 year olds not coming to the league, it would be in the 18 and 19 year olds leaving for NCAA, like sure Montgomery is reporting now, but will be gone next year. If Valentini for example reported to the Rangers he could be gone after next season to NCAA.

There would be zero reason for them to come to the OHL. The USHL is a better league for 16 year olds and in many cases 17 year olds as well. The argument against the USHL is the lack of development for 19 year olds.

If a player is committed to play NCAA as an 18 year old, they won’t come to the OHL. There is zero reason to do so.

I fail to see a reason why players would come to the OHL for 3 years, get to the point where they are ready to make an impact and then go to the NCAA and be a rookie all over again. They are better off staying that one extra year, play their proverbial “Senior” year and then play for four years in the NCAA.

 

[RB76]

There would be zero reason for them to come to the OHL. The USHL is a better league for 16 year olds and in many cases 17 year olds as well. The argument against the USHL is the lack of development for 19 year olds.

If a player is committed to play NCAA as an 18 year old, they won’t come to the OHL. There is zero reason to do so.

I fail to see a reason why players would come to the OHL for 3 years, get to the point where they are ready to make an impact and then go to the NCAA and be a rookie all over again. They are better off staying that one extra year, play their proverbial “Senior” year and then play for four years in the NCAA.

I agree wholeheartedly, stay and develop as a 19yr old playing big minutes and for a championship. NCAA teams will adjust and most likely will want players at 20yrs going forward.

 

[agillarda]

There would be zero reason for them to come to the OHL. The USHL is a better league for 16 year olds and in many cases 17 year olds as well. The argument against the USHL is the lack of development for 19 year olds.

If a player is committed to play NCAA as an 18 year old, they won’t come to the OHL. There is zero reason to do so.

I fail to see a reason why players would come to the OHL for 3 years, get to the point where they are ready to make an impact and then go to the NCAA and be a rookie all over again. They are better off staying that one extra year, play their proverbial “Senior” year and then play for four years in the NCAA.

Hayden Reid a now 18 year old who was drafted into the OHL in 2023 as a 17 year old is University of Minnesota committ just signed to join the Flint Firebirds after being in his 2nd year with the USHL. Press release even mentions the likelihood of him jumping next year. Mentioning how he currently wouldn't be allowed to jump to NCAA, however; there is a vote on it this week that could change it.

Players will want to play in the best league possible and with all due respect to the other leagues (USHL, BCHL, OJHL and the lost goes on) they are a cut below the CHL and the NCAA has said as much be up till now banning them for the NCAA because of a few hundred bucks a week.

Why would they want to play 3 years in the OHL and switch? Asides from the fact they already do? They play 2/3 years USHL for example and switch. Maybe they want to get an education in university for post career. Maybe they want to protect their right to play where they want; as of right now after 2 years I believe at the NCAA if they haven't signed with the team that drafted them they become college free agents. Maybe instead of moving to the US to play USHL, they can stay closet to home and play OHL. This maybe will also have an affect on the players who use the NCAA as a weapon to manipulate the draft (Ala Mitch Marner who was expected top of his draft, threatened to go NCAA then was drafted by London and reported).

 

[MJ5]

If a player is committed to play NCAA as an 18 year old, they won’t come to the OHL. There is zero reason to do so.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853542436326261060

Literally the first player to leave the USHL for the OHL is an 18 year old committed to play for Minnesota.

Hayden Reid - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Hayden Reid, 2006-06-21 Orono, ON, CAN Canada. Most recently in the OHL with Flint Firebirds. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com