i think last 5-8 years college and USA stopped caring about education , travel , expense in relation to kids hockey . I think from last year minny had more div 1 recruits , more nhl players than every state combined . I really feel bad for NE prep who has been best place for COMPLETE development of kids . No worries Canada numbers are falling faster than usa numbers in youth participation because of money and USA dramatically richer country .
CHL can now play NCAA - change everything !
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Appleyard
Registered User
Yeh, there is not a great solution... but there are definitely better ways than how it is right now. The Ad Hoc scheduling of 90% of the top teams means that travel is madness and extremely costly.
Take for example the New Jersey Rockets schedule. Pretty representative of a top programme and they are ideally located in terms of travel. They spent the first two months of the season traipsing up to MA, RI and NH... then spent half of January away in Minnesota and Detroit!
And ofc having to play 5 games in 3 days at times to make trips to upstate New York and elsewhere worthwhile.
Now lets say for example (in the easiest 2 areas nationwide) you have:
New Jersey Rockets
Long Island Gulls
North Jersey Avalanche
Mid-Fairfield Jr Rangers
Yale Jr Bulldogs
Jersey Hitmen
Philadelphia Jr Flyers
Black Bear Academy
PAL Jr Islanders
South Kent
Seacoast Performance Academy
Mount St. Charles
Boston Jr Eagles
Neponset Valley River Rats
East Coast Militia
Cape Cod Whalers
Lovell Academy
Boston Hockey Academy
Now, these teams if played in "division" to start season would have a pretty similar schedule quality wise, while having a lot less travel and expenses, as well as consistency to schedule. Ofc a lot of politics at play, and still not perfect, and it is arbitrary towards the bottom which teams it would be...
but would be better than what is happening now.
Combine that with some version of the HPHL in Detroit-Chicago area?
And then have the Ohio, West Penn and Upstate NY teams play each other?
Might save money, time, create consistency and improve product.
BUT ofc will never happen.
Best can hope for is expansion of NEPACK and maybe a new HPHL.
Vancouver Giants captain Mazden Leslie won't be back next year, opts for NCAA team instead
Mazden Leslie wants to play pro, but if not he'll go to Bowling Green instead of coming back to the Giants as a 20-year-old
theprovince.com
The pro angle is still very much in play. This is what teams will have to get use to now. Commitments will be contingent on pro opportunities.
WarriorofTime
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Much bigger story than a kid that might get passed over three times going pro or college is that it very much lays out that leaving before fulfilling all your junior years is on the table and it’s a wait and see.Vancouver Giants captain Mazden Leslie won't be back next year, opts for NCAA team instead
Mazden Leslie wants to play pro, but if not he'll go to Bowling Green instead of coming back to the Giants as a 20-year-old
The pro angle is still very much in play. This is what teams will have to get use to now. Commitments will be contingent on pro opportunities.
“The Giants have gotten me ready to move up a level, whether that’s pro or NCAA,” Leslie said via text message. “And my focus and commitment right now is still 100 per cent on the Giants and hopefully leading the team on a long playoff run.”
The majority of his teammates are eligible to return next season. Asked about how they responded to him saying that he’d be at Bowling Green next year if he didn’t go pro, Leslie replied: “I think all the guys are excited. I think everyone wants to move up in hockey and eventually end up in pro. So I think this is a step in that direction for sure.”
Sounds like kids are really looking to move up and view the ncaa as a harder place to play if the ncaa teams will take them early.
“On the flip side of all this, the Giants brass have talked about building around this age group featuring Leslie since they all first joined the team, and thought their squad would be at the top of its cycle when they were all wrapping their eligibility. Now they’re going to have to pivot.”
CHL teams will have to deal with this new reality that they could lose players earlier than they had originally planned now that they have more options.
Hockeyville USA
Registered User
Which means they'll be able to bring in talented youngsters in sooner &/or bring in talent from Junior A, MN HS, HS-Prep, etc. Tons of ripple effects coming
Not saying that you’re necessarily wrong or going to be wrong in terms of the outcome of the “new reality”, but this isn’t a very supportive example.
As a 10th overall draft pick there was every expectation that Mazden Leslie would have secured Pro attention and moved on after his 4 years of junior eligibility were completed. A 5th year, Overage season would been considered highly unlikely at the time and was almost certainly not something the GM would have planned for.
If the Giants were basing their Championship aspirations on this age group, then they would have been building for this year and they would have been “all in”.
But they’re not…
The fact that the Giants are not making a run this year means they’re building their run around a different age group (I can think of at least 2 superb reasons why).
Even before this new arrangement, overagers were alwways viewed in the CHL differently than I think a lot of NCAA fans understand; rosters are never built around them, it’s often uncertain if they’ll return and it doesn’t usually happen until after the start of the season, they’re a luxury to have (especially good ones) but for the most part, they’re replaceable from elsewhere around the league. And the fetch precious little on the trade market.
I don’t think the CHL brass and its fans are hugely concerned about the NCAA possibly poaching some Overage players. We’d prefer you didn’t, but they’ve been able to move on if they wanted to. For the NCAA, the big competition for these players is not the CHL, it’s the AHL, ECHL and probably Europe as well.
We’re most concerned about the 19 year olds, which is where the battleground will be
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I would assume a player of his stature most likely would have went pro if a contract was offered after his 4 years were completed if it were not for this rule change.
What is interesting (and very concerning) to me is the mind set of such players. Leslie fits the exact profile of a player who needs a little bit more seasoning that the NCAA could provide before embarking on a pro career. Yet for him, the NCAA is viewed more of a fall back position. He will play college hockey IF a pro contract is not presented at the conclusion of the season.
Such a mindset is exactly what the CHL is banking on. It is why most of the college coaches representing the more prominent programs were against lifting the ban on CHL players. It is far easier to convince a player to go on the college path at the age of 15 then it is at the age of 17 or 18. Previously you were only competing against the CHL and plethora of uncertainties for the players. Now you are competing against the interests of the the CHL and the opportunities of a NHL/AHL contract.
College Hockey Inc. will have to be completely remodeled. Instead if holding seminars at U-16 tournaments they must now be wining and dining player agents, become best friends with CHL GMs and establish very close ties with the NHL. Their main purpose starting TODAY must be to convince CHL GM and NHL GMs that playing college hockey after the CHL is the best course of action for all involved.
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WarriorofTime
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But ncaa teams always have to “compete” with a player signing a pro contract whether they are 17 and just got their name called or are looking to possibly leave after one year when they’re 20 because someone is offering them a contract. So to present any sort of shift there is a bit disingenuous. The real story is a kid that would have been a guaranteed OA without getting drafted and is now making it explicit that he’d leave to go play college instead of doing that since the college team would take him. That’s something that wasn’t an option until just now.
Kid like that is probably OA -> AHL Contract in the past. Now he’s saying he’d sign an ELC and join the other 05 born kids headed to the AHL but if he goes undrafted and isn’t picked up as a UDFA, he’s going to ncaa and will try again to get a contract.
Kid like that is probably OA -> AHL Contract in the past. Now he’s saying he’d sign an ELC and join the other 05 born kids headed to the AHL but if he goes undrafted and isn’t picked up as a UDFA, he’s going to ncaa and will try again to get a contract.
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Hockeyville USA
Registered User
Leslie could also get drafted by a team that loves/strongly supports the NCAA route (Boston comes to mind) and Don Sweeney could tell him "we'll sign you after you go to Bowling Green for at least a year, maybe two, assuming you play well".
landy92mack29
Registered User
Leslie is also a player that without a doubt would've been drafted if he was going the college path initially but teams didn't think his skating would be pro ready by the time his 2 years were up drafted out of the CHL vs 4 NCAA.
WarriorofTime
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Yeah good point. He could get drafted, delayed and then signed after a year or two with ncaa. If he’s undrafted and then there’s a “bidding war” so to spoke there as a UDFA that would force the issue of him signing.
This is where the NCAA path becomes the preferred route for those that need the time to further develop. We discussed this previously that the NCAA becomes the go to route for those drafted in the latter rounds that will need the extra few years to further refine their game.
You would assume that the team drafting him realizes that an extra year or two of college would be the most beneficial option. He and his agent, however, may have other ideas.
in addition , lot of great free agent signing every year from the college ranks . You go undrafted but go to college and dominate sophomore - junior year your in great position to find the right spot !
That is a double edges sword, however. Players and their advisors/agents love that line of thinking, but NHL GMs certainly do not. As mentioned previously, all things ( NHL draft CHL-NHL agreement, retention rights) are being looked at in no small part because of this rule change.
WarriorofTime
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No idea what this even means.
Anyways, the story here is a kid that would never have played NCAA Hockey now is likely going to play NCAA Hockey. The idea that he could potentially not play NCAA Hockey speaks nothing to someone that was always going to potentially play NCAA Hockey. Spinning it as "very concerning" for the NCAA's future is a bit bizarre. It's just a bonus player that has an opportunity to play an interim step.
