GDT: Chicago @ Carolina—Tuesday, October 15, 7 PM

golfpro827

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That first period was rough to watch. Cam bailed us out.

Need to find people who can put the puck in the net in shootouts. That has always plagued this team. It drives me nuts.
 

tarheelhockey

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I can get on board with criticizing Muller for our PP struggles, which are visibly a strategic issue. And I guess I can agree with holding him responsible for some of our chemistry issues, though IMO it has more to do with individual slumps than with coaching decisions.

But I don't see how you can walk away from last night's game and criticize his in-game adjustments. Last night was a fairly dramatic and obvious example of a team changing its approach during intermission. They got demolished for 20 minutes, took 15 to talk about it, and won the next 40. And probably should have won the game if the PP was worth a crap.

Also, if special teams are entirely on the coach then it's worth noting that we currently have a top-10 PK -- even with THAT group of defensemen and our apparently average goaltending. Credit where it's due, our PK is vastly improved since last season and that has a lot to do with Muller as well.
 

golfpro827

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I can get on board with criticizing Muller for our PP struggles, which are visibly a strategic issue. And I guess I can agree with holding him responsible for some of our chemistry issues, though IMO it has more to do with individual slumps than with coaching decisions.

But I don't see how you can walk away from last night's game and criticize his in-game adjustments. Last night was a fairly dramatic and obvious example of a team changing its approach during intermission. They got demolished for 20 minutes, took 15 to talk about it, and won the next 40. And probably should have won the game if the PP was worth a crap.

Also, if special teams are entirely on the coach then it's worth noting that we currently have a top-10 PK -- even with THAT group of defensemen and our apparently average goaltending. Credit where it's due, our PK is vastly improved since last season and that has a lot to do with Muller as well.

:handclap:

couldn't agree more.

I'm not one of these "our team is great yay!" type people, but considering we have only played one bad team, is anyone really truly upset with 7 points at this point? I know I'm not.
 

Blueline Bomber

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Does anybody wonder what these guys would do if they had a coach like Torterella demanding that they actually slam their bodies into other people and put them infront of pucks, and then savagely cursed them after the game if they failed to do so? I think Skinner and Eric would cry on each other's shoulders.

Which is kind of the problem. While Torts would definitely bring the accountability back to the players (something that Muller is attempting/has attempted to do), those type of ballbusting coaches get tuned out. Lavi here and Philly, Torts in Tampa and NY.

The hope was that, since Muller was in a very similar situation as Staal when he was a player, those two would connect and that connection would lead to a well managed team. Muller could criticize without being tuned out, since he'd have the captain on his side (and the team goes as Staal goes, for better or worse).

The problem is that most issues with this team over the past couple years probably hasn't been the coach on most nights. It's been the players' execution of the coach's gameplan and that falls on the leadership group, Eric and whoever wearing the As at the time.

The coach can get them prepared for games with practices and make adjustments in game, but in reality, once that puck hits the ice, it's a matter of execution.

Look no further than the Jersey game last year. Broduer's first game back from injury, Muller tells them to put everything in net since he's probably rusty. Sound advice that should have worked and led to an easy win (or at least, a competitive game). The problem was, the team put up 10 shots in the first 10 minutes, got frustrated that none went in, then put up only six in the remaining 50. That's a failure of execution. That's on the players.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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The problem with just assuming the players aren't following coaching in a single game is that they aren't playing in a vacuum, the other team has a say. I'm not saying the Canes played well in that NJ game by any means, but it's just as likely that NJ was extra motivated to keep the Canes at bay as well, given it was Brodeur's first game back, and doing everything they could to stop the Canes from peppering him.

That said, when all is said and done, it's up the the players to perform on the ice. Other than making subtle adjustments, line changes, or calling a T.O., the coach can't impact a game once it's started nearly as much as the players can.
 

golfpro827

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I'm not saying the Canes played well in that NJ game by any means, but it's just as likely that NJ was extra motivated to keep the Canes at bay as well, given it was Brodeur's first game back, and doing everything they could to stop the Canes from peppering him.

This reminds me of something that people often forget.

When we win, it's not always because we played good. Sometimes the other team played liked crap.

And when we lose, it's not always because we played bad. Sometimes the other team played great.

I know this is a pretty general statement, but I look at losses like LA and I wasn't upset at all with that performance.
 

spockBokk

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That first period was rough to watch. Cam bailed us out.

Need to find people who can put the puck in the net in shootouts. That has always plagued this team. It drives me nuts.

+1

Or better yet, the 4 on the ice just need to go balls to the wall and take chances in the attacking zone for the full 5 min OT to eliminate the need for the shoutout. Either way, we score the game winner or, more than likely, give it up. At least then we don't have to endure the team's pitiful shootout performances.
 

Blueline Bomber

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And keeping with the accountability issue, JR hasn't done much to help fix that. While I understand it's easier to fire a coach than it is to get rid of players, at some point, you've got to stick with the coach you've chosen and tell the players "This is your guy. Work with him or we'll find someone who will"
 

Vagrant

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Murphy made a bad decision on that 4 on 3, if we're going to have a criticism of how he played last night. The man in front of him had no way at all to stop the puck from moving through the triangle. You don't settle for a screened chance. You have to get the goaltender moving laterally and open up some net to shoot on. I saw him kind of slam his stick down after that muffin he fired into Crawford for the whistle. The puck has to move MUCH quicker and has to be a LOT closer to the net when you're basically on a 4 on 2. Walk that puck in a few steps and cut down the reaction time. There again, leaning on a 20 year old kid to lead your offensive unit in that situation was probably a mistake. I would have gone with 4 forwards considering there was a whole 2 minutes and time for a shift before the man came out of the box.

And insofar as shootouts are concerned, whenever Cam makes a save or two we have to convert because it's not often he can come up as big as he did those first two attempts against the quality of shooters he came up against. We needed to get him a lead. That attempt by Semin was just .....terrible. I don't know why shooters continue to insist upon coming in hot but if you watch the best it's like a game of chicken with the goaltender. Crosby comes down at a snail's pace deking left to right and the goaltender almost always sharts himself before he even gets close to the net. These situations are one of the reasons I was hoping Terry would make the club. He's amazing in the shootout and he wouldn't deny us anything Brett Sutter's four minutes a night give us.
 

geehaad

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now here's how to say what you should have then you would have had post after post in agreement and be a real Canes fan. 1- after watching the game closely tonight, I agree with ya'll that this team has no issues and has just been very unlucky. 2- Eric is a quiet fella and a great leader who is looked up upon by his peers and leads by example however, sometimes his intense emotions get him in trouble but everyone understands. 3- even though Skinner is not a rookie anymore he just has to grow up a little and needs more time. contrary to popular belief, the refs are not the best of any sport 4- Muller is the mostest bestest NHL coach to ever don a suit and is on track to lead this team to the Stanley Cup with his brilliant systems that he finally got to establish in his first training camp. the results are self-evident and the team has bought into it fully as is evident by the total lack of offense but a few less GA. 5- never, ever say anything positive about Alexander Semin. if you do, noone will say a thing until the very next time he makes a mistake, then point out what a mistake it was to sign the enigmatic Russian. 6- never say anything positive about a new guy like Hainsey when he's playing well. wait until he strings together three good games and becomes a local folk hero. 7- the team doesn't deflate. they are just a little fragile but Muller is feverishly working on that by playing grinders on the top line and through-out the line-up with tons of ice time, to send a message to the talented floaters. Tlusty is a good example here.

There is such opportunity in taking a jab at this board's silliness, but I'm afraid that this is neither funny nor accurate. That is a losing combination.
 

What the Faulk

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Outshot Chicago 29-21 the rest of the way and it looked like it. Some sloppy play in the defensive zone, but all said they looked way better in the second two periods. The powerplay still sucks, the shootout still sucks, Bellemore had a horrendous game, but everyone else shifted into another gear in the final forty, Eric included.

I have no complaints about how this game turned out after watching that first. Muller too seemed pretty pleased postgame.
 

Sens1Canes2

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There is such opportunity in taking a jab at this board's silliness, but I'm afraid that this is neither funny nor accurate. That is a losing combination.

If this board is ANYTHING, it's too hard on players sometimes. I didn't quite understand where he was coming from, at all. But that's nothing new.
 

Finlandia WOAT

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If this board is ANYTHING, it's too hard on players sometimes. I didn't quite understand where he was coming from, at all. But that's nothing new.

If this board is anything, it's too hard on poorly presented or poorly thought out dissenting opinions.

Rocky7 won't be the first poster to be chased out of here. I remember the "Trade Skinner for Adam McQuaid" thread.
 

Finlandia WOAT

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Not to defend Jordan, but I thought he had one of his best games as a Cane last night.

Agree. He was actually trying to be offensive and had some opportunities.

I would move Semin to the 2nd line, Tlusty back to the 1st and Dwyer to the 4th forever and ever and ever.
 

RodTheBawd

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Oct 16, 2013
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Man, after reading through this thread, I'm a bit disappointed I finally signed up here. Suffice to say it's like FB posters that think they know what they're talking about because they're now on a hockey forum. Are the majority of posters here Vagrants or rocky7s? Hopefully the former, and I can chalk this up to lolsamplesize
 
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Lazyking

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Oct 15, 2011
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Man, after reading through this thread, I'm a bit disappointed I finally signed up here. Suffice to say it's like FB posters that think they know what they're talking about because they're now on a hockey forum. Are the majority of posters here Vagrants or rocky7s? Hopefully the former, and I can chalk this up to lolsamplesize

Its a good group here but we don't take much seriously.. Don't let a few of the people that do take it too seriously and blame the coaches for everything.
 

CioCio

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May 13, 2006
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Or better yet, the 4 on the ice just need to go balls to the wall and take chances in the attacking zone for the full 5 min OT to eliminate the need for the shoutout. Either way, we score the game winner or, more than likely, give it up. At least then we don't have to endure the team's pitiful shootout performances.

To me it looked like we were playing for keeps in OT last night; shame how it ended. We rode that momentum after the Hainsey goal hard. I thought we deserved that one.

The first period was so bad, I could hardly watch. Our passes looked like they were moving through molasses. The ice has been terrible, but Chicago's were still connecting.

Semin's goal was GOH-geous, and to see Staal so happy in the celebration was nice because you know he's been frustrated. I remember Malkin embarrassing us with that blind behind-the-back goal in '09, dumbfounded over how he could roof it so close to the net. I love having a shooter that can do the same.
 

Vagrant

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Vagrant....I agree that Bellemore has looked bad lately. I was hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

He's a bit over his head right now. Carolina has a tendency for better and mostly worse of distributing minutes based a bit too much on effectiveness in the short term instead of competency in the long term. There isn't a lot of rhyme or reason there. If a defender is playing well inside the confines of his role, they expand that role instead of being happy that a player is having success in that position. Murphy is a fine example here. He goes from not getting a regular shift for most of the season to exploding for more than 20 minutes and it's like.... is there no middle ground here? The same kind of thing happened to Bellemore. He went from a long shot during camp to being thrust into a role that he wasn't prepared to play and it impacted his mental game. He would be more than adequate in a third pairing capacity but he's having to play over his head because of injuries. I still think he's an NHL caliber depth defender, but he's not being done any favors by being asked what he is being asked.

And the danger in that is that they either love you or hate you. You're either a Top 4 or you're in the pressbox. And it's looking more and more likely that's where Bellemore is going to end up in the short term. Just a few games back it looked incredibly likely that Murphy was going to go back to the AHL and now he's indispensable apparently if you go by minutes. I can't figure it out. Somebody has a good shift and they start sending them over the boards to play half the game.
 

golfpro827

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The only reason Murphy is playing like he is b/c of the Pitkanen injury.

I can't help but think the plan before that was for Murphy to play a full year in the AHL - probably play 10 games or so based on call ups - but mainly play 25 a night in all 3 situations in Charlotte.

Then this summer, we let Pitkanen walk and Murphy steps into that role. If he's not ready, we bring in a veteran on a one year contact - maybe even Pits in that - and push the plans ahead a year.

Now Pits is gone and we are one season ahead of a pace - Murphy doing what Pitkanen did.

So that's how you go from 7 games to 20 minutes with no middle ground. We basically skipped a year.
 

What the Faulk

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The problem is, Vagrant, somebody has to take those minutes. Faulk and Sekara can't play 27 every night while the others get table scraps. Last night I thought Murphy earned his minutes, even if he was a little careless at times in his own zone. He was making things happen, and down 2-0, that's kind of what you need.

When Gleason gets back, and it seems he's a week or so away, I figure things will sort themselves out. For now, I wouldn't mind swapping Harrison and Hainsey and running something like this:

Faulk // Sekara
Hainsey // Murphy
Harrison // Komisarek
Bellemore

The third pairing might be pretty terrible and slow, but would you rather have two C bottom four pairings or a B and a D?
 

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