All this talk about last years draft just made me realize that Stramel is basically what I viewed Sapovaliv as last year(aside from handedness), the player taken right after Haight(and who I wanted with that pick).
Prospect Info: Charlie Stramel, C, 21st Overall, 2023 NHL Draft
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The biggest what if is if Minnesota passed on Stramel and there was a run of centers and Minnesota got Perrault and two undersize wingers would we be happy?
Minnewildsota
He who laughs last thinks slowest
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Circulartheory
Registered User
You know what, this is a good point, and should be a point made by the team. I think my biggest gripe was they really did stress "skill/hockey sense over everything" then do the exact opposite.
But still, you make a great point. And I will concede to ONLY this argument as for picking Stramel a bit early.
We see that a lot especially in football where teams will sometimes over draft because if they don't, other teams will. I mean I think Rasmus would still be there but Heidt and Stramel gone.
I really think the consensus is that Stramel is athletic enough to bounce back.
Circulartheory
Registered User
But you are right - the spacing between 21-53 is huge and no matter how many mocks you run, there is only a list of like 6 talented centers left to pick from. The rest are clear tier below.
Technically you could trade the 53/64 to move up, but then you lost Heidt or also, with the lack of trades on Day 1, are you sure you are going to have a willing party when centerman are premium?
I do like Stramel but disagreed with the draft philosophy, but I now willing to accept that sometimes, you have to adjust your strategy to not only what's left on the board for 21 pick, but also what will be left for the 53 pick at the same time. Decisions are not made in a vacuum for the one pick.
ThatGuy22
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I am generally BPA regardless. But wild are in kind of a unique position. They have a consensus high end prospect pool(that prior to this draft was borderline consensus number 1) that's deep everywhere but C and with varying timelines of now to 3 years out.. But all the Cs that are in the system are mostly all undersized besides Bankier.
The pool is now officially well rounded basically everywhere, at all positions.
MuckOG
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There was also alot of fans upset we took Jonas Brodin instead of Duncan Siemans or Ryan Murphy who were picked immediately after.
BagHead
Registered User
I was one of them. I was an idiot that day, but it did teach me to not judge a prospect until I get to know them better (or at all, in Brodin's case),
Rumor is that Philly or New York were going to take Stramel so that's why they didn't move down. I can absolutely see one of them taking Stramel especially Philly with two picks.
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Yeah I mean I never expect anything amazing from a 20+ pick in the 1st.
He is big and moves well, has skill. Has upside.
A player that big with who can skate and has some IQ to his game is always welcome in the NHL so...
You may turn into a Tyler Biggs or perhaps you get a Ryan Gezlaf.
The truth is he will be somewhere in the middle probably.
He is big and moves well, has skill. Has upside.
A player that big with who can skate and has some IQ to his game is always welcome in the NHL so...
You may turn into a Tyler Biggs or perhaps you get a Ryan Gezlaf.
The truth is he will be somewhere in the middle probably.
The number of NHL draft picks on Wisconsin's roster will be a 30-year high
A large group of drafted players hasn't always meant big things for the Badgers, who had three incoming freshmen picked Thursday.
im fine with the pick; on wednesday i was hoping the wild would either trade up for moore or pick perreault. the wild picked three centers in a row, obviously targeting the position and trust their judgement for now, we will see how it turns out. charlie was a boarder line top ten prospect before the year, is a late 04, he turns 19 in october, a high school sr last year, been playing against older kids for a long time and with usndtp. he has upside and tested really well for athleticism at the combine. wisconsin was a flip show last year, hopefully hastings can right the ship and help turn the program into being respectable again and develop kids, good for the big 10, married to it now.
probability that a second half first round pick plays more than 200 games is ~ 25%, 4 players in a draft; its probably going to me a few more players n a good draft like this, but you cant expect a second half first rounder to be a sure thing. if you call them a bust if they dont have a 200 game career much less a serviceable fifteen year middle six year career is preposterous.
probability that a second half first round pick plays more than 200 games is ~ 25%, 4 players in a draft; its probably going to me a few more players n a good draft like this, but you cant expect a second half first rounder to be a sure thing. if you call them a bust if they dont have a 200 game career much less a serviceable fifteen year middle six year career is preposterous.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I think you guys got a great player at 21. This was the player I was hoping would fall to the Rangers at 23. As much as I like Perreault, Stramel was the player I really was targeting for the Rangers pick and I felt a little deflated when you guys picked him.
I think his reputation has been unfairly knocked down this season. I still believe he's a likely top 6 center eventually. I ranked him #10 on my list. Let me explain why.
Wisconsin was terrible this season and that effected him a lot. I know a lot of you guys follow college hockey, so you're probably familiar with the landscape at Wisconsin. I've long thought Granato was a terrible coach and does more bad than good for the prospects that go there. Every single good player that I see commit to Wisconsin I cringe and know it could be a bumpy ride. His brother is a much better coach. I'm glad that Granato is gone, so we can now see some real development from the prospects that play at Wisconsin.
And I think that effected Stramel a lot. He was their 6th leading scorer among forwards. He had 12 points. The 6th leading scorer amongst forwards at Minnesota had 25 points and the 6th leading scorer amongst forwards at Michigan had 32 points. If he was anywhere within the 25-32 range, I think there's little doubt he's picked within the top 10, and he may even be picked as high as top 5. He was ahead of Smith amongst the American players heading into the season, so it's not as unlikely as it might sound. They just had completely opposite seasons. That's not irrelevant, but one season doesn't define what a player will eventually become, good or bad.
Stramel looked really good at the World Juniors. I know 3 points in 7 games doesn't scream "really good", but I think pretty much everyone gave him credit for playing well there. He also had at least one goal called back I remember that was complete nonsense. And he was in general getting more chances than the totals suggest, so he was playing well, but a little snake-bit on the score-board. That's kind of similar to his season at Wisconsin where he couldn't buy one. Maybe you can say that's become a theme, and a bad one, but I think more than anything it's just one bad season. He didn't have these problems at the NTDP. And in general, his WJC role was a very defensive role, so maybe points aren't the fairest barometer for his WJC play. He was playing PK and 4th line. Energy, getting to the net, wasn't tasked with being an offensive guy for that team. Did well in his role anyway.
Overall, he was a top 6-7 forward for the NTDP age group that had Cooley, Gauthier, Snuggerud, Nazar, Howard, McGroarty, and all those other 6 ended up being first round forwards, so him being a first rounder too isn't the reach the box-score watchers thought. If he was picked based only on his time at the NTDP, he would've been a top 10 pick, at minimum, as I mentioned. He also looked good last year when he played some games with the 2005 age group. Stramel had a bad injury during his U18 season (21-22 season, not 22-23), and missed the first half of the season. During an off-week for his age group, they sent him down to get in some extra games with the 2005 age group, and he was really good there. He was better than all those guys that were high picks like Smith, Leonard, Moore, Perreault. It's fair to say those guys maybe weren't as physically developed and were generally at least a little younger, so that's part of it, but at the same time those were his draft peers, so it's not too unfair.
I think if you put Stramel in a junior league this year, he'd have scored 75+ points, and no one would have been questioning his offensive upside. He was one of the very youngest players in college hockey this past season, and did that for a terrible team. That's not easy. I'm not going to suggest he's actually the second coming of like Matthews or Draisaitl, but I think he will be a second line center with a similar play style to players like David Backes, Lawson Crouse, Charlie Coyle. He's a physical freak. He's like 6'3 215 already, skates well for his size, he's very physical, very good in the corners, he goes to the net and is good at deflecting pucks, he's a decent puck handler, and I think there's some offense there. A lot of it will be dirty goals around the net, but I also think he's good enough to make the pass when it's there or make the right decision in the offensive zone when it calls for it. The game doesn't move too quick for him or anything like that. And defensively, he's improved a lot the last year or two. Despite his low-point totals, I've thought he's become a very good defensive player, and one that'll have a big defensive role in the NHL, whether he ends up being as good as I think he can be offensively or not.
So I think at 21 he's a steal. You can't discount a bad offensive season as nothing. The fact that it's in there suggests that maybe he's not as much of a sure-thing offensively as previously thought, but I still think if you take the totality, he ends up being a second line center, and the exact type of forward with how he plays that teams covet and overpay for with 1st rounds picks and their best prospects each trade deadline. Having a player like that on an ELC will be very valuable for your team, and as a local Minnesota kid, I think he could potentially become a fan favorite and a long time player for your team.
I think his reputation has been unfairly knocked down this season. I still believe he's a likely top 6 center eventually. I ranked him #10 on my list. Let me explain why.
Wisconsin was terrible this season and that effected him a lot. I know a lot of you guys follow college hockey, so you're probably familiar with the landscape at Wisconsin. I've long thought Granato was a terrible coach and does more bad than good for the prospects that go there. Every single good player that I see commit to Wisconsin I cringe and know it could be a bumpy ride. His brother is a much better coach. I'm glad that Granato is gone, so we can now see some real development from the prospects that play at Wisconsin.
And I think that effected Stramel a lot. He was their 6th leading scorer among forwards. He had 12 points. The 6th leading scorer amongst forwards at Minnesota had 25 points and the 6th leading scorer amongst forwards at Michigan had 32 points. If he was anywhere within the 25-32 range, I think there's little doubt he's picked within the top 10, and he may even be picked as high as top 5. He was ahead of Smith amongst the American players heading into the season, so it's not as unlikely as it might sound. They just had completely opposite seasons. That's not irrelevant, but one season doesn't define what a player will eventually become, good or bad.
Stramel looked really good at the World Juniors. I know 3 points in 7 games doesn't scream "really good", but I think pretty much everyone gave him credit for playing well there. He also had at least one goal called back I remember that was complete nonsense. And he was in general getting more chances than the totals suggest, so he was playing well, but a little snake-bit on the score-board. That's kind of similar to his season at Wisconsin where he couldn't buy one. Maybe you can say that's become a theme, and a bad one, but I think more than anything it's just one bad season. He didn't have these problems at the NTDP. And in general, his WJC role was a very defensive role, so maybe points aren't the fairest barometer for his WJC play. He was playing PK and 4th line. Energy, getting to the net, wasn't tasked with being an offensive guy for that team. Did well in his role anyway.
Overall, he was a top 6-7 forward for the NTDP age group that had Cooley, Gauthier, Snuggerud, Nazar, Howard, McGroarty, and all those other 6 ended up being first round forwards, so him being a first rounder too isn't the reach the box-score watchers thought. If he was picked based only on his time at the NTDP, he would've been a top 10 pick, at minimum, as I mentioned. He also looked good last year when he played some games with the 2005 age group. Stramel had a bad injury during his U18 season (21-22 season, not 22-23), and missed the first half of the season. During an off-week for his age group, they sent him down to get in some extra games with the 2005 age group, and he was really good there. He was better than all those guys that were high picks like Smith, Leonard, Moore, Perreault. It's fair to say those guys maybe weren't as physically developed and were generally at least a little younger, so that's part of it, but at the same time those were his draft peers, so it's not too unfair.
I think if you put Stramel in a junior league this year, he'd have scored 75+ points, and no one would have been questioning his offensive upside. He was one of the very youngest players in college hockey this past season, and did that for a terrible team. That's not easy. I'm not going to suggest he's actually the second coming of like Matthews or Draisaitl, but I think he will be a second line center with a similar play style to players like David Backes, Lawson Crouse, Charlie Coyle. He's a physical freak. He's like 6'3 215 already, skates well for his size, he's very physical, very good in the corners, he goes to the net and is good at deflecting pucks, he's a decent puck handler, and I think there's some offense there. A lot of it will be dirty goals around the net, but I also think he's good enough to make the pass when it's there or make the right decision in the offensive zone when it calls for it. The game doesn't move too quick for him or anything like that. And defensively, he's improved a lot the last year or two. Despite his low-point totals, I've thought he's become a very good defensive player, and one that'll have a big defensive role in the NHL, whether he ends up being as good as I think he can be offensively or not.
So I think at 21 he's a steal. You can't discount a bad offensive season as nothing. The fact that it's in there suggests that maybe he's not as much of a sure-thing offensively as previously thought, but I still think if you take the totality, he ends up being a second line center, and the exact type of forward with how he plays that teams covet and overpay for with 1st rounds picks and their best prospects each trade deadline. Having a player like that on an ELC will be very valuable for your team, and as a local Minnesota kid, I think he could potentially become a fan favorite and a long time player for your team.
Backes was the 1st guy I thought of when i thought of his upside potential. Maybe a better skating Backes. Coyle had had better tools, but has ultimately been disappointing. Something missing in him.
Stramel needs to mature, and show consistency. I can see cutting him some slack because of the poor situation in WI, and also the premature death of his father, but he has to overcome those things and move on if he wants to be a NHL player.
Time will tell whether Ritchie, Stenberg, Edstrom, etc., will be better players.
I am curious to see what Perreault turns out to be. His numbers were near freakish, but some doubt that they will translate to pro hockey because of his lack of raw athletic tools.
Stramel needs to mature, and show consistency. I can see cutting him some slack because of the poor situation in WI, and also the premature death of his father, but he has to overcome those things and move on if he wants to be a NHL player.
Time will tell whether Ritchie, Stenberg, Edstrom, etc., will be better players.
I am curious to see what Perreault turns out to be. His numbers were near freakish, but some doubt that they will translate to pro hockey because of his lack of raw athletic tools.
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Coyle I think got neutered by the NHL. He played with an edge and there were shifts where you were like, holy cow. And then he got suspended and he never regained that edge.
He's never been suspended. He was a light switch when he was in MN. When he was on, everything was very good with his game. When he was off everything was bad with his game. There just wasn't any middle ground.
He just always seemed to be to be a big guy that had little guy aspirations.
DeagleJenkins
Registered User
Early on as a wing for the wild wearing 63(?) he got ejected for a high hit, but you’re right I don’t recall a suspension. Maybe that’s what he is talking about?
He never reached a point where everything was good with his game though. He was and still is today, the master of the flyby. Always flying past the crease when he should've been putting on the brakes, crashing the crease.
DANOZ28
Registered User
Minnewildsota
He who laughs last thinks slowest
- Jun 7, 2010
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BagHead
Registered User
Somebody doesn't watch figure skating 45 years ago.
It's a camel spin into a sit spin. And it's awesome!
You know what, I think you're right. I thought he got suspended, but I think the NHL gave him a call.
