Changes needed?

[notDatsyuk]

Why would we split up the best line on our team right now? I think some people here get an idea in their head and just run with it and not watch the games. Tavares has been more than adequate this year. His even strength production shows for itself, he and Nylander are playing fine together.

On the whole I think the team would be better served with JT and Willy each centering their own line.

But for the moment they are working well together - between them they have accounted for 7 of our last 16 goals, and 6 of the last 11 at even strength.

Unless you're desperate to swap Willy and Mitch to try to get Matty going, I wouldn't split up our (currently) most effective pair.

 

[wingman75]

Not sure if I am approaching this season with a different perspective or if some of you are not sharing the 'good stuff'?!

New guys on the roster need time to adjust...
Guys with changes to their personal life need time to adjust...
...and they all will.

I think accurately pointed out has been Sammy's weak start, but what about Marner? He's basically been a complete no show and the team is 5-2-1! The first line has been a shadow of their former selves, and we know that won't last all season.

I am concerned about D injuries, but rather them now than in April, May, June. Let's see what we have for depth. Tre needs all this info as he preps for the final moves (for this season).

 

[Strangle]

It's the same discussion every year. Many fans don't like the type of player but managements around the league continually try and add that type of player.

Seems like the best start in some time, not sure where the thirst for change is coming from this early in the year.

People seem to expect that every line score at least a goal every game.

That’s just not at all realistic. You’re not going to average 4 goals+ every game.

And if the first line puts you up 2-0 you’re not going to be flying down the ice on the 3rd line opening the game up to get your line a goal to appease some hfboards posters expectations of your personal season stats.

It’s a team game, the leafs are scoring enough, they don’t have a salary structure to have 4 lines of mediocre to decent players.

They have high end talent at the top and lower end players/young players to fill out the roster.

That’s just how the team needs to be constructed.

 

[Judas Tavares]

I think considering the turnover this isn't a bad start at all. Chemistry can take 10-20 games. Certain players haven't played up to standard, but it's 8 games in.

Yes, I think its inevitable changes will be needed. I think too much utility has been lost and was not replaced. Thus, relying on some unexpected players to do things such as PK. But those changes happen when the calendar switches to the next year, would be shocked to see anything of heavy substance in the next couple months. The deadline will complete Treliving's first year script so we will see what happens. You want to upgrade but not gut too much draft and prospect capital.

 

[egd27]

If Tavares and Nylander are better this year then there is even a bigger reason to break them apart. Then they might be even better then this(overall) apart. This is not a balanced team right now. Spread the fear. Dont keep it on two lines. I don't think they will suddenly be bad without each other. Probably be better in some ways.

Knies Matt Nylander
Bert Tavares Marner

Not a very well thought out argument.

 

[ZEBROA]

Not a very well thought out argument.

Yeah i know, stressed that one trough. Most of all i want Tavares away from Nylander, second i want to spread the best players. In both cases i belive it is for the best of the team. So if not three lines with a core player at least Nylander away from Tavares and vice versa.

 

[francis246]

It's the same discussion every year. Many fans don't like the type of player but managements around the league continually try and add that type of player.

Seems like the best start in some time, not sure where the thirst for change is coming from this early in the year.

It’s not that I don’t like the player. I don’t like his contract. His contract is preventing him from being removed from the line up if needed. That’s my issue. I don’t mind Reaves if you have depth to take him out of the line up to make more effective lines but that option isn’t even available to us because of how much he makes

 

[Strangle]

Yeah i know, stressed that one trough. Most of all i want Tavares away from Nylander, second i want to spread the best players. In both cases i belive it is for the best of the team. So if not three lines with a core player at least Nylander away from Tavares and vice versa.

This would just increase ice time for lesser players and decrease ice time for your best players.

Bad idea

 

[ACC1224]

It’s not that I don’t like the player. I don’t like his contract. His contract is preventing him from being removed from the line up if needed. That’s my issue. I don’t mind Reaves if you have depth to take him out of the line up to make more effective lines but that option isn’t even available to us because of how much he makes

Fair point. Guessing they had to go to that dollar or he signs elsewhere.

 

[mclaren55]

.688% Win; and some of you think we need to change things up? The only thing we need to change up is making Woll the starter and Sammy back-up this season.

 

[kevsh]

It will come down to the playoffs like it always does and it's more about the balance of scoring in the playoffs and grinding it out.

That's true but going into the season you'd have to been an eternal optimist (or just delusional) to think the bottom 6 was set up to contribute in the playoffs. Two unproven rookies, Reaves, Kampf, Jarnkrok and a PTO player.

The same weaknesses from the past are still here: Need a stud top pairing D-man and depth scoring. So far, neither has been addressed.

And even then, look at the trade deadline last year where Dubas actually came fairly close to filling those holes with a huge deadline getting ROR, McCabe, Acciari, Lafferty, Schenn. They got some depth scoring from that but not nearly enough (by my math ~9 goals total in 11 games) and were out in 5 in the second round.

This year's forward depth is worse, the blueline may end up being a bit better but I can't see Treliving going as "all in" as Dubas did last year. So I'm not sure what's going to be different this spring unless a few of those in the bottom 6 really step it up, at minimum.

 

[Nineteen67]

That's true but going into the season you'd have to been an eternal optimist (or just delusional) to think the bottom 6 was set up to contribute in the playoffs. Two unproven rookies, Reaves, Kampf, Jarnkrok and a PTO player.

The same weaknesses from the past are still here: Need a stud top pairing D-man and depth scoring. So far, neither has been addressed.

And even then, look at the trade deadline last year where Dubas actually came fairly close to filling those holes with a huge deadline getting ROR, McCabe, Acciari, Lafferty, Schenn. They got some depth scoring from that but not nearly enough (by my math ~9 goals total in 11 games) and were out in 5 in the second round.

This year's forward depth is worse, the blueline may end up being a bit better but I can't see Treliving going as "all in" as Dubas did last year. So I'm not sure what's going to be different this spring unless a few of those in the bottom 6 really step it up, at minimum.

The D is probably worse. Klingberg is great with the puck, but he can be his own worst enemy in the defensive end.

 

[Judas Tavares]

That's true but going into the season you'd have to been an eternal optimist (or just delusional) to think the bottom 6 was set up to contribute in the playoffs. Two unproven rookies, Reaves, Kampf, Jarnkrok and a PTO player.

The same weaknesses from the past are still here: Need a stud top pairing D-man and depth scoring. So far, neither has been addressed.

And even then, look at the trade deadline last year where Dubas actually came fairly close to filling those holes with a huge deadline getting ROR, McCabe, Acciari, Lafferty, Schenn. They got some depth scoring from that but not nearly enough (by my math ~9 goals total in 11 games) and were out in 5 in the second round.

This year's forward depth is worse, the blueline may end up being a bit better but I can't see Treliving going as "all in" as Dubas did last year. So I'm not sure what's going to be different this spring unless a few of those in the bottom 6 really step it up, at minimum.

I liked what was done at the deadline last year, but the cost of doing that business was also expensive. In the end, only McCabe was retained. So the loss of those players combined with also losing Kerfoot and Holl (yes, they needed to go, but they also did serve a utility purpose) means you kind of need to repeat last year's deadline again.

Maybe not 6 players worth, but I'd argue at least 2 of very high quality or maybe 3 of lesser quality. Either way, it will cost a lot and there's only so much draft capital to go around spending every year. Leafs have 9 picks in the 2024 draft (though 6 of them are round 5 or later) so there's a bit more than expected so that should help a bit. But not willing to throw away so many each year. The 2025 draft pool has already been dipped into significantly.

Maybe since there is a new GM, this is the year we see prospects go out the door rather than picks. The issue is, can't see them wanting to deal Cowan or Minten (for good reason), but the Niemela, Robertson, Grebenkin, Moldenhauer, Hirvonens of the world probably won't move then needle enough for other teams. Not an easy spot. We will see what Treliving can do.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I liked what was done at the deadline last year, but the cost of doing that business was also expensive. In the end, only McCabe was retained. So the loss of those players combined with also losing Kerfoot and Holl (yes, they needed to go, but they also did serve a utility purpose) means you kind of need to repeat last year's deadline again.

Maybe not 6 players worth, but I'd argue at least 2 of very high quality or maybe 3 of lesser quality. Either way, it will cost a lot and there's only so much draft capital to go around spending every year. Leafs have 9 picks in the 2024 draft (though 6 of them are round 5 or later) so there's a bit more than expected so that should help a bit. But not willing to throw away so many each year. The 2025 draft pool has already been dipped into significantly.

Maybe since there is a new GM, this is the year we see prospects go out the door rather than picks. The issue is, can't see them wanting to deal Cowan or Minten (for good reason), but the Niemela, Robertson, Grebenkin, Moldenhauer, Hirvonens of the world probably won't move then needle enough for other teams. Not an easy spot. We will see what Treliving can do.

Great post! The GM has to think about the now, but also the future. This is something which many people seem to forget as the TDL approaches and people say we need to "give the team the best chance to win". One comment I've seen hundreds of times is "whoever we draft won't be able to help until at least 3-4 years from now". Well for one thing, Knies didn't take that long, Minten looks like he might beat that timeline as well and even if they take 5 years (ie. Holmberg), it sure is nice when those players to enter the lineup isn't it? And I wonder, those people who were saying in 2019 that draft picks can't help for the next few years so who cares - are they the same people who are now blaming our woes on Dubas because he "left the cupboards bare"?

Like you said, we're not in an easy spot, we'll see what Tre does.

 

[WillyC]

It always goes back to swapping Marner and Nylander… IMO, Willy deserves to play on Auston’s wing.

We know JT and Mitch play well together… just do it.

Knies Matthews Nylander
Bertuzzi Tavares Marner

 

[nuck]

If Mitch, Bert and Sammy were just a little better they could be undefeated It doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement elsewhere but Reaves, Kampf and probably Jarnkrok and Klinger are untradeable so they reap what they sew for now and wait for things get better. There has to be some urgency and there just isn't any yet. If I was the Leafs I wouldn't have started the season with any of these four but the die is cast and any or all of them could turn it around (within the context of their ability).

Its counter intuitive to make any real changes when you have 5 wins in 8 games. Winning means they have the luxury of trying to get the passengers going. I think Keefe has to get Bertuzzi going but that is maybe a coaching and use thing rather than an indictment of the player being in the lineup.

Change is often good but an 8 game sample is too small.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Gregor/AM/MM

Everything you typed was absolutely irrelevant because you also typed this

 

[nuck]

?

 

[hobarth]

Bunting had 14 points in 26 games prior to signing with Toronto. By comparison, Gregor has 52 points in 186 NHL GP. Hoping to receive top six production from the latter seems to be the far riskier proposition among the two options.

Totally missed my point, eh?

 

[hobarth]

How many times have we seen TO losing in the last period or last 5 minutes so Keefe makes a line, WN, MM & AM, he sends them out 1 or 2 shifts, nothing happens so that line is finished, why not use that line to generate a lead, leave it together for awhile to develop chemistry, TO's version of Pastrnak/Bergeron/Marchment?

There's many different options as to how TO can be constructed, I'd like to see them all if what is currently being iced isn't working. That TO loses to Nashville in itself isn't significant except that Nashville is in a tank year, they don't want to win and TO couldn't dominate, that's concerning.

MM and AM together in the playoffs hasn't resulted in TO winning anything in the playoffs except last year, is that a good pairing, great regular seasons are been there, done that, it's time to move on.

Maybe breaking up those automatic pairings might enable TO to go further in the playoffs, is it too early to get our undies in a knot, the big 4 have been together for 5 years so it's not too early.

 

[Ciao]

Shit.

The Leafs haven't won the Stanley Cup yet and it's already the end of October.

In fact, they're only 2nd in their division and 6th in the league. How much worse can things get?

Time to make big changes. It's definitely now or never.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Wait until American Thanksgiving even if they frustrate you in the mean time.

 

[notDatsyuk]

How many times have we seen TO losing in the last period or last 5 minutes so Keefe makes a line, WN, MM & AM, he sends them out 1 or 2 shifts, nothing happens so that line is finished, why not use that line to generate a lead, leave it together for awhile to develop chemistry, TO's version of Pastrnak/Bergeron/Marchment?

There's many different options as to how TO can be constructed, I'd like to see them all if what is currently being iced isn't working. That TO loses to Nashville in itself isn't significant except that Nashville is in a tank year, they don't want to win and TO couldn't dominate, that's concerning.

MM and AM together in the playoffs hasn't resulted in TO winning anything in the playoffs except last year, is that a good pairing, great regular seasons are been there, done that, it's time to move on.

Maybe breaking up those automatic pairings might enable TO to go further in the playoffs, is it too early to get our undies in a knot, the big 4 have been together for 5 years so it's not too early.

First, you would have two right wingers out at the same time. Yes, Nylander is good enough to play the left side, but that's not optional.

Second, if you put the three best players on one line, that weakens your options for the other lines, particularly defensively.

In case you haven't noticed, there have been discussions about the effectiveness of the Matthews/Marner and Tavares/Nylander pairings for years. The only person who doesn't seem to be interested in trying different pairs is Keefe, who just happens to be the only person who actually matters.

Told you guys you'd miss Dubas!

Wrong again!

 

[Burnie97]

That's true but going into the season you'd have to been an eternal optimist (or just delusional) to think the bottom 6 was set up to contribute in the playoffs. Two unproven rookies, Reaves, Kampf, Jarnkrok and a PTO player.

The same weaknesses from the past are still here: Need a stud top pairing D-man and depth scoring. So far, neither has been addressed.

And even then, look at the trade deadline last year where Dubas actually came fairly close to filling those holes with a huge deadline getting ROR, McCabe, Acciari, Lafferty, Schenn. They got some depth scoring from that but not nearly enough (by my math ~9 goals total in 11 games) and were out in 5 in the second round.

This year's forward depth is worse, the blueline may end up being a bit better but I can't see Treliving going as "all in" as Dubas did last year. So I'm not sure what's going to be different this spring unless a few of those in the bottom 6 really step it up, at minimum.

yeah that's mostly true but I guess we will have to wait and see what Treliving does at the trade deadline and how the bottom 6 ends up performing. Lots of time to see until then.

 

[ToneDog]

Shit.

The Leafs haven't won the Stanley Cup yet and it's already the end of October.

In fact, they're only 2nd in their division and 6th in the league. How much worse can things get?

Time to make big changes. It's definitely now or never.

It is coming to 56.5 years since Army hoisted the SC on May 2, 1967.