GWT: Champions League Round of 16
- Thread starter Halladay
- Start date
How was Lyon a Big Team in 2005? A good team yes but a big team no and a big name even less.
3-4 years later when they had some big wins under their belt (Real) and one 1/2 yes but certainly not in 2005.
It was a real 50/50 at the time this matchup.
3-4 years later when they had some big wins under their belt (Real) and one 1/2 yes but certainly not in 2005.
It was a real 50/50 at the time this matchup.
Lyon was such not a big team that :
- they were part of the G14.
- Aulas was even president of G14.
- OL lost to CL champs in the QF as early as 2004.
- Lyon was totally dominant in 2005, having the biggest ELO score in L1 history.
- That same year, they finished top of their CL group in front of United.
- That same year, they demolished Bremen 10-2 in the knockout stage.
- They featured several of their best all-time players, including Essien, Wiltord, Govou, Juninho and many others.
- The year after, they finished top of their CL group again, this time in front of Real Madrid. They beat them 3-0 at home.
- They kicked PSV's ass 5-0.
- Two years later, they ONCE again finished ahead of Real in the group stage. This time they beat them 2-0 at home. Only then did they start to crumble by losing to Roma in the knockout stage. They had that "weak" period for 3 years where they always got out of the group stage but lost in the knockout round.
- Then they went to the semis beating Madrid again in the knockout stage.
Lyon was easily a top 8 team for 5-6 years. Including that matchup against PSV. If you feel being a top 8 team is not being a big team, more power to you.
Not a single team took them for granted.
- they were part of the G14.
- Aulas was even president of G14.
- OL lost to CL champs in the QF as early as 2004.
- Lyon was totally dominant in 2005, having the biggest ELO score in L1 history.
- That same year, they finished top of their CL group in front of United.
- That same year, they demolished Bremen 10-2 in the knockout stage.
- They featured several of their best all-time players, including Essien, Wiltord, Govou, Juninho and many others.
- The year after, they finished top of their CL group again, this time in front of Real Madrid. They beat them 3-0 at home.
- They kicked PSV's ass 5-0.
- Two years later, they ONCE again finished ahead of Real in the group stage. This time they beat them 2-0 at home. Only then did they start to crumble by losing to Roma in the knockout stage. They had that "weak" period for 3 years where they always got out of the group stage but lost in the knockout round.
- Then they went to the semis beating Madrid again in the knockout stage.
Lyon was easily a top 8 team for 5-6 years. Including that matchup against PSV. If you feel being a top 8 team is not being a big team, more power to you.
Not a single team took them for granted.
YNWA14
Onbreekbaar
- Dec 29, 2010
- 34,543
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I think there's a difference between a 'big' team and a 'good/great' team.
A 'big' team is a team with huge marketing power, vast influence in the footballing world, a huge name and history, etc. etc. I wouldn't say that Lyon fit in with that crowd when you consider it's the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Manchester United, Liverpool, Bayern Munich, etc. etc.
A 'big' team is a team with huge marketing power, vast influence in the footballing world, a huge name and history, etc. etc. I wouldn't say that Lyon fit in with that crowd when you consider it's the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Manchester United, Liverpool, Bayern Munich, etc. etc.
When PSV-Lyon faced off in 2005 none of them was looked at as a "big name" in the sense that a referee would protect the said "big team" that's just what I'm saying. That was the basic argument.
I'm taking nothing away from what they did in that time frame especially in the years after...
I'm taking nothing away from what they did in that time frame especially in the years after...
Any chance Lyon comes back to be a factor in Europe again, or the new economics of the game prevents it?
I don't believe they will anytime soon. They have a diamond in Fekir but he'll be gone soon.
Lacazette won't last much longer and even with their talented youth, it won't last long. These guys go for the money and/or trophies as soon as they're considered good enough (and quite often before that).
Sounds like many other teams today...
The graphic in the thread proves it...
More and more it will be always only a few teams from a couple of leagues with 90% foreigners...
That's why Europa is often more interesting more unpredictable these days.
The graphic in the thread proves it...
More and more it will be always only a few teams from a couple of leagues with 90% foreigners...
That's why Europa is often more interesting more unpredictable these days.
Power Man
Grrrr
Mah boy Madjer was one of the 3 Porto foreginers in 87 
And 91 Red Star was pretty much the Yougoslavian NT, probably the same thing with Steua/Romania
And 91 Red Star was pretty much the Yougoslavian NT, probably the same thing with Steua/Romania
YNWA14
Onbreekbaar
- Dec 29, 2010
- 34,543
- 2,560
Evilo I was always talking about stature, marketing, etc. I mean, Tottenham right now I think most would agree is a better team than United, as is Leicester, but when they play who do you think will get the majority of the favourable calls? The same goes with Liverpool against most teams ahead of them right now in the PL -- they will still get the calls more often than not because they are Liverpool. A 'big' team is more about the name, history, stature and financial power than it is about how good they are on the pitch necessarily at that time.
From 2005 even to now I don't think there'd really be bias in favour of PSV or Lyon when they play really (unless the ref has a personal bias). Neither of them are really 'big' teams by today's or 2005's standards.
Wow...how Milan have fallen. It's always hard to see graphics like that which illustrate how successful and dominant they were as a team for so long. Jeez.
From 2005 even to now I don't think there'd really be bias in favour of PSV or Lyon when they play really (unless the ref has a personal bias). Neither of them are really 'big' teams by today's or 2005's standards.
Wow...how Milan have fallen. It's always hard to see graphics like that which illustrate how successful and dominant they were as a team for so long. Jeez.
That's where I disagree. Lyon was seen as a bigger team than PSV by a wide margin because they were contenders. PSV wasn't expected to be there.
In the big picture Lyon was still seen as up and comers who hadn't proven themselves yet with a "big win" like Porto had the previous year by winning it and by dumping Manchester Utd out in the process...
Like a boxer or a tennis player who is climbing the rankings but hasn't yet had the big win or a big marquee win...
Like a boxer or a tennis player who is climbing the rankings but hasn't yet had the big win or a big marquee win...
And the 2005 PSV side was very good with a great mix of youth and experience and gave Milan a real test in the 1\2's and easily could have won the trophy that year. And if anything PSV was is and probably always will be seen as a bigger "team" than Lyon...European Cup Winner Uefa Cup winner at the time had just seen guys like Robben Van Nistelrooy Ronaldo Romario play for them...and all the other very good Dutch players. I don't agree that Lyon was seen has a more major force in 2005 and certainly not in referees eyes...
In terms of talent and potential known to experts and hardcore fans yes, not in the big picture for casuals and not in the sense that referees would be tempted to give them some calls because they are seen as a big team big name.
Your original point was that PSV got lucky this time and got a big call their way against a big team, that isn't the case at all. They got a dubious call for them in what was seen probably at the time as the weakest 1/4 on paper...And even if Lyon did have some better success in the years to come beating some big clubs reaching a 1/2 still they didn't win anything not even made a final...
Your original point was that PSV got lucky this time and got a big call their way against a big team, that isn't the case at all. They got a dubious call for them in what was seen probably at the time as the weakest 1/4 on paper...And even if Lyon did have some better success in the years to come beating some big clubs reaching a 1/2 still they didn't win anything not even made a final...
Liverpool-Juventus
Inter-AC Milan
Psv-Lyon
Chelsea-Bayern
You can be sure what 1/4 was seen as the weak one then...and which team everyone wanted in the 1/2...
Inter-AC Milan
Psv-Lyon
Chelsea-Bayern
You can be sure what 1/4 was seen as the weak one then...and which team everyone wanted in the 1/2...
Anyway I don't care the point is the teams that did and will still get calls their way based on 'power" are Barcelona Real Madrid Chelsea Manchester Utd Bayern and especially Juventus Inter Ac Milan. Those are the ones. And at the end of the day it's referees who decide if they have balls or not if they have integrity or not.
CL all-time club rankings: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles...Publications/02/28/56/90/2285690_DOWNLOAD.pdf
Or you can take the document for what it is, a ranking of points.
There is also a column for "titles" if you look closely enough.
