GWT: Champions League Round of 16

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les Habs

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
22,707
4,152
Wisconsin
To sum up, Bayern toyed with Juventus for an hour. They should have scored 3, 4 maybe 5 goals.
And then they seemed to become disinterested. They tried to play gimme football without ever trying to be dangerous and Juventus then tried to pressure those midfield balls. Turns out Bayern couldn't do this for 30 minutes witout being in danger and I'd say Juve could even have won it in the end.

I was only following the scoreline from work. I was quite surprised that Juventus brought it back. If Bayern should have had more goals then I think Juventus won't pose as much a threat back in Munich.

How did Pogba do? Not sure I'll watch this. Would prefer to see the rest of that PSG match from last week.
 

maclean

Registered User
Jan 4, 2014
8,814
2,838
I HATE DIVERS

Just out of curiosity, how much football do you actually play? I don't condone diving but it is not a black and white issue. The fact is there is a lot of physical play and jostling that goes on and a lot of it is over the line and the fact is, generally speaking, if you don't fall down, the ref doesn't call it. I see it in my son's games, especially when the other team has some older or bigger kids, players will take a lot of physical liberties. Again, I reiterate that as a spectator I also see too much diving in the sport and yell at the screen as much as the next guy, but I also understand that on the field you can only take getting hip-checked off the ball so many times before you let gravity take its course.

When I play with friends we play for fun and we do not play clean and there's no ref and that's just understood as part of the game. There's a couple of guys that take it too far and sometimes we have to call them out on that, but we're all friends and the group works it out. When you are playing professionally against another team though, the situation is radically different and this isn't hockey where you can send your bruiser to go start a fight with someone if he's taking liberties with your stars.
 

BMann

Registered User
May 18, 2006
1,961
512
Watford
Maradona lost to a superior german side after dragging his team to the WC final to...

If I remember rightly a team that were so superior they dived to win against the then Czechoslovakia and did so again in the final. Not to mention the officiating of Codesal. Superior indeed. :laugh:
 

BMann

Registered User
May 18, 2006
1,961
512
Watford
Messi's greatness and quality notwithstanding, you have to remember that he's playing with the core of Spain's national team in an era where more than ever the best players are almost all in a few select clubs. It wasn't like this before, there was more competition and depth in leagues and Europe. He's the best I've seen quality wise BUT outside of Barcelona, with Argentina a very good national team he hasn't proven himself at all. In fact he has proven time and time again that he can't do it without the top guys from Barcelona. Not a fan of Maradona but would have loved a scenario where Messi starts or has a few years in a club like Napoli or Sevilla maybe and show he can win by himself before joining the giant.

Until he delivers for Argentina, I'm not talking trophy only but great performances and goals in big games, he won't have the same recognition as some of the past legends, because as I've said before almost all of the past legends have done well for both club AND country.


Here we go again. It's the old argument without Xavi & Iniesta Messi is nothing. Under Sabella Messi was his normal self. He had a big role to play in 2014 and 2015. He cannot be faulted for Higuain missing two sitters although he missed his own chance and Crapacio also fluffed his lines.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
61,284
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If I remember rightly a team that were so superior they dived to win against the then Czechoslovakia and did so again in the final. Not to mention the officiating of Codesal. Superior indeed. :laugh:

germany.jpg
 

Corto

Faceless Man
Sep 28, 2005
16,056
992
Braavos
Rakitic said before the game they wanted to finish the matchup in the first leg.
You can't have it both ways. Either you're heavy favourites and target a blowout or you're not and then your players are cocky and over-confident.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Noone can possibly target a "blowout" against Arsenal at their own home ground. And I don't think that's what Rakitic wanted to say, nor was it implied.

But winning 2-0 is a pretty comfortable result which allows for serious room for error in Barca's home game - and what's more, Arsenal will have to open up if they want to chase the result.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
63,393
9,345
France
Huh? Whatever Rakitic said is irrelevant to what you're quoting. I was talking about at least one post I read in this thread, what people have said to me in person and what I've read from other football fans online about the match who thought it'd be a blowout. Again, I never thought it would be. And finishing the tie in the first leg doesn't necessarily equate to a blowout.
It really is not irrelecant.
Rakitic said he wanted the two leg tie to be over after one single leg. Thus he expected a blowout, didn't he?


I'm talking about the play in the 45th minute. You can watch it here. At about 44:20 Bellerin passes it to Ramsey who gives it away.

Ah, not me.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
63,393
9,345
France
How did Pogba do? Not sure I'll watch this. Would prefer to see the rest of that PSG match from last week.

Pogba was meh. He needs a better cast around him. He is disappointing right now and need to move to a team with much better quality.
 

Vipers31

Advanced Stagnostic
Aug 29, 2008
20,388
2,190
Cologne, Germany
To sum up, Bayern toyed with Juventus for an hour. They should have scored 3, 4 maybe 5 goals.
And then they seemed to become disinterested. They tried to play gimme football without ever trying to be dangerous and Juventus then tried to pressure those midfield balls. Turns out Bayern couldn't do this for 30 minutes witout being in danger and I'd say Juve could even have won it in the end.
Good summary, IMO. Agreed.

How did Pogba do? Not sure I'll watch this. Would prefer to see the rest of that PSG match from last week.

Pogba was meh. He needs a better cast around him. He is disappointing right now and need to move to a team with much better quality.

Yeah, mixed bag for Pogba. He struggled with Bayern's pressing game in the first 60, just like the rest of the team, where they could barely hang on to the ball for more than three passes or 30 seconds. He had some nice scenes, though, where he created a lot of room for himself and/or his teammates. He certainly doesn't allow for turnovers to affect his confidence. Overall, "meh" fits pretty well.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Just out of curiosity, how much football do you actually play? I don't condone diving but it is not a black and white issue. The fact is there is a lot of physical play and jostling that goes on and a lot of it is over the line and the fact is, generally speaking, if you don't fall down, the ref doesn't call it. I see it in my son's games, especially when the other team has some older or bigger kids, players will take a lot of physical liberties. Again, I reiterate that as a spectator I also see too much diving in the sport and yell at the screen as much as the next guy, but I also understand that on the field you can only take getting hip-checked off the ball so many times before you let gravity take its course.

When I play with friends we play for fun and we do not play clean and there's no ref and that's just understood as part of the game. There's a couple of guys that take it too far and sometimes we have to call them out on that, but we're all friends and the group works it out. When you are playing professionally against another team though, the situation is radically different and this isn't hockey where you can send your bruiser to go start a fight with someone if he's taking liberties with your stars.

As someone who plays as a forward, and who has quick feet, I can attest to the lack of calls or protection of the players as a big reason that players embellish (personally I don't go down often, but I quite often get frustrated with the number of times I'm kicked, tripped up, impeded, jostled, etc. with no call unless it has taken me to the ground). I think that there is a difference between just going down and some of the theatrics pulled by a lot of players, but the reality is that often time going down is the only way to bring light to a foul being committed. On top of that it doesn't take much to trip up someone who is in full flight either.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Also really looking forward to the games today. PSV need to play like they did at home to Wolfsburg to get anything from this match -- not playing with a lesser team complex, but go out there and attack from the get-go. They have a good team and a good coach. They can put a lot of pressure on Atletico with a win today.

Unfortunately the PSV youth side lost to Roma (on penalties), but a much better youth side in Ajax is against Lyon (it's all single elimination at this point). This is a really good Ajax youth side so based on that I think they should go far (and I guess the round of 16 is already pretty far), but it's hard to say since all the other youth sides are relatively foreign to me.
 

Pouchkine

Registered User
May 20, 2015
2,731
294
The amount of diving is on the rise again because referees have stupidly stopped giving yellow cards for simulation. Overall though it's not that bad and Barcelona can't be singled out.

One thing is sure though today's players, the stars, have it very easy compare to past eras where defenders could take liberties and the tackling was dirty. Guys like Maradona Best Van Basten Cruyff etc in those eras, especially in Serie A it was very tough for the big stars.

Since we're on a hockey board, Messi today is literally playing in an era without clutching grabbing and even shall we say without bodycheking compare to what the guys had to endure before the Mario Lemieux's of the time...
 

Pouchkine

Registered User
May 20, 2015
2,731
294
I think Psv-Atletico will be a real classic and I feel an upset is possible, certainly there will be a better atmosphere at the game than at the Emirates yesterday!
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
MaraDonny and Nouri showing why they're special talents. Both combining and having a goal and assist each as they lead Lyon 2 - 0 so far.

EDIT: Ajax score a third from Nouri, and while they're up 3 - 0, Lyon get a straight red card. Looks like Ajax will advance pretty easily to the quarterfinals.
 
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cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
61,284
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w/ Renly's Peach
Pogba was meh. He needs a better cast around him. He is disappointing right now and need to move to a team with much better quality.

This line of reasoning would be more convincing if Dybala and Marchisio weren't outperforming him regularly this season. Though it doesn't help that their idiot coach keeps playing Pogba out on the left.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
61,284
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w/ Renly's Peach
Ah, yeah. Allegri's stupid insistence on forcing them into a 4-4-2 really is a ********* in all respects. Abandoning that shape to the more appropriate (for their squad) 3-5-2 and Bayern switching off is what opened that game back up. Their attacking play was still poorly organized, but at least at was functional with Pogba in the midfield trio and the full-/wing-backs pushing forward more aggressively. With Bonucci and soon Rugani to play the ball out of the back and Marchisio shining in Pirlo's old role, that team has the piece to feed Dybala and Mandzo/Morata consistently; they just aren't coached well enough to do it.
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

In the hands of Genius
Aug 8, 2006
46,486
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Pogba was meh. He needs a better cast around him. He is disappointing right now and need to move to a team with much better quality.

I thought he was supposed to be a guy that's a catalyst in driving the offence, not complimentary guy.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
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France
Clearly he's not ready to imply a whole team's tactic.
Playing negative football most of the time doesn't make technical players shine.

I think as an argentinian fan, you should understand this.
 

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
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Ah, yeah. Allegri's stupid insistence on forcing them into a 4-4-2 really is a ********* in all respects. Abandoning that shape to the more appropriate (for their squad) 3-5-2 and Bayern switching off is what opened that game back up. Their attacking play was still poorly organized, but at least at was functional with Pogba in the midfield trio and the full-/wing-backs pushing forward more aggressively. With Bonucci and soon Rugani to play the ball out of the back and Marchisio shining in Pirlo's old role, that team has the piece to feed Dybala and Mandzo/Morata consistently; they just aren't coached well enough to do it.

They didn't really switch to a 3-5-2 in the second half. They just pressed higher and more effectively.
 

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
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2,397
Clearly he's not ready to imply a whole team's tactic.
Playing negative football most of the time doesn't make technical players shine.

I think as an argentinian fan, you should understand this.

It's not just the fault of the system. Pogba does a couple of extraordinary things per match, but he's a little erratic and not always strategically sound. It's different than the case of Hazard imo.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
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France
It's not just the fault of the system. Pogba does a couple of extraordinary things per match, but he's a little erratic and not always strategically sound. It's different than the case of Hazard imo.
Indeed, not always.
But again, on a possession team with talent around him, with a system that has a different approach than playing negative football all the time, he'd look much better and his moments of brilliance would be highlighted.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
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They didn't really switch to a 3-5-2 in the second half. They just pressed higher and more effectively.
They pressured higher only because Bayern stopped trying to build something offensively but tried to keep the ball in midfield. That allowed Juventus to play higher up the pitch and pressure the ball handlers.
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

In the hands of Genius
Aug 8, 2006
46,486
9,972
Clearly he's not ready to imply a whole team's tactic.
Playing negative football most of the time doesn't make technical players shine.

I think as an argentinian fan, you should understand this.

Oh I definitely understand this but they don't play negative football every game. I assume this is what they did against Munich although I didn't see the match.

Keeper took Vietto out,(after the fact) could've been a pk no?
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
63,393
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France
They do play negative football most of the time I watch them.
Pogba is still developping and he's far from a finished product.
But he's not going to take the next step on that Juve team IMO.
 

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