GWT: Champions League Round of 16

[IU Hawks fan]

Ummmm, I can give you one.....Laporte. He's got a buyout clause that is under the 200 million pound war chest and I don't think he would be opposed to joining Arsenal. It's not like he's coming from Barca, Juventus, or Bayern. There are like 15,000 players in Europe who are better than Mertesacker, hell Gabriel who's on the bench is better than him as well.

Are you really suggesting buying a just under 200M CB?

Great use of resources.

 

[bluesfan94]

Ummmm, I can give you one.....Laporte. He's got a buyout clause that is under the 200 million pound war chest and I don't think he would be opposed to joining Arsenal. It's not like he's coming from Barca, Juventus, or Bayern. There are like 15,000 players in Europe who are better than Mertesacker, hell Gabriel who's on the bench is better than him as well.

Gabriel has been injured. Definitely not match fit. I enjoy your over-exaggeration though. Hyperbole is not your friend in having a rational conversation, although I've seen that that is rarely your goal.

Case in point, spending that much on a center back.

 

[cgf]

??? Sure they have some injury woes, but they are on par with any club outside the top 5 or 6. I can't name 8 clubs better than Juve.

Agreed. Bayern and Barca are in a Tier of their own, and have been since Real won la Decima/Neymar-Messi-Suarez became a thing/Bayern got Lewy settled in. But Juve, especially after adding Dybala, are absolutely in the same class as Real, PSG, Athleti, Dortmund, and whichever english club's supporters are going to gripe about not being included.

Busquets? Not diving? Hahahahahahaha.

A Real fan, living in the past? Hahahahahahaha.

That's the same thing that Bayern does.

No. Bayern create chances constantly, they don't need to rely on individual efforts and set pieces to get their goals.

 

[Pouchkine]

Messi's greatness and quality notwithstanding, you have to remember that he's playing with the core of Spain's national team in an era where more than ever the best players are almost all in a few select clubs. It wasn't like this before, there was more competition and depth in leagues and Europe. He's the best I've seen quality wise BUT outside of Barcelona, with Argentina a very good national team he hasn't proven himself at all. In fact he has proven time and time again that he can't do it without the top guys from Barcelona. Not a fan of Maradona but would have loved a scenario where Messi starts or has a few years in a club like Napoli or Sevilla maybe and show he can win by himself before joining the giant.

Until he delivers for Argentina, I'm not talking trophy only but great performances and goals in big games, he won't have the same recognition as some of the past legends, because as I've said before almost all of the past legends have done well for both club AND country.

 

[Cassano]

2-2 still a great result for Bayern. Juve won't win or score 3 goals in Munich.

I think Juve can win - going to need to be really lucky though. Bayer should advance.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Agreed. Bayern and Barca are in a Tier of their own, and have been since Real won la Decima/Neymar-Messi-Suarez became a thing/Bayern got Lewy settled in. But Juve, especially after adding Dybala, are absolutely in the same class as Real, PSG, Athleti, Dortmund, and whichever english club's supporters are going to gripe about not being included.

They're capable of being in that group but they haven't been as strong domestically this season as those teams and haven't been particularly strong in the CL either.

 

[Pouchkine]

Anybody feeling the two home teams might surprise tomorrow?

 

[bluesfan94]

Messi's greatness and quality notwithstanding, you have to remember that he's playing with the core of Spain's national team in an era where more than ever the best players are almost all in a few select clubs. It wasn't like this before, there was more competition and depth in leagues and Europe. He's the best I've seen quality wise BUT outside of Barcelona, with Argentina a very good national team he hasn't proven himself at all. In fact he has proven time and time again that he can't do it without the top guys from Barcelona. Not a fan of Maradona but would have loved a scenario where Messi starts or has a few years in a club like Napoli or Sevilla maybe and show he can win by himself before joining the giant.

Until he delivers for Argentina, I'm not talking trophy only but great performances and goals in big games, he won't have the same recognition as some of the past legends, because as I've said before almost all of the past legends have done well for both club AND country.

That Spanish core of iniesta and busquets

 

[Deficient Mode]

Never mind

 

[YNWA14]

Anybody feeling the two home teams might surprise tomorrow?

I think City will be fine in their tie, but PSV might surprise; they've been playing very well lately, and look even better with the addition of van Ginkel.

Obviously PSV are still heavy underdogs though.

 

[cgf]

They're capable of being in that group but they haven't been as strong domestically this season as those teams and haven't been particularly strong in the CL either.

Mostly when Conte's used that stupid 4-4-2 with Pogba on the left, or earlier in the year when they were adapting to all of the change. Lately when they've played with a midfield trio, flanked by wing backs, with their back three behind them; they've been a very strong side in that top non-FCB tier.

Mertesacker starting... I mean what did you expect?
Koscileny is already risky enough, Mertesacker is just asking for trouble.

Merte isn't risky. He just sucks.

That's a really dumb rule, you'll actually get more goal scoring opportunities and exciting games if you don't let that happen IMO. The goalkeeper should only be able to pick up balls when it comes from directly an opponent's foot, or if it is deflected off a teammate via a shot from any part of the body. Able to actually pick it up during times of trouble is the easiest "OJ Simpson Monopoly get out of jail for free card" I've seen in sports.


Maybe you need to look through the Hubble because that was the most intentional back pass I've seen in my life.

Drawing the line between a deflection and intentionally playing it back with a part of the body other than the foot is why the rule is how it is. There's just too many close calls that people would start *****ing about not getting penalties for. This keeps games flowing more smoothly and avoids the unnecessary additional referee influence.

And there's enough goals scored in this game, this isn't hockey...

Messi's greatness and quality notwithstanding, you have to remember that he's playing with the core of Spain's national team in an era where more than ever the best players are almost all in a few select clubs. It wasn't like this before, there was more competition and depth in leagues and Europe. He's the best I've seen quality wise BUT outside of Barcelona, with Argentina a very good national team he hasn't proven himself at all. In fact he has proven time and time again that he can't do it without the top guys from Barcelona. Not a fan of Maradona but would have loved a scenario where Messi starts or has a few years in a club like Napoli or Sevilla maybe and show he can win by himself before joining the giant.

Until he delivers for Argentina, I'm not talking trophy only but great performances and goals in big games, he won't have the same recognition as some of the past legends, because as I've said before almost all of the past legends have done well for both club AND country.

Maradona lost to a superior german side after dragging his team to the WC final to...

 

[Hadoop]

Barca, Real, Bayern, PSG, Atletico are locks and not really debatable IMO.
After that, it's a matter of opinion, but I'd say a few teams are better.
Last year Juventus should have been knocked out by Monaco in the QF if the ref had called it like he should have.
Doesn't scream top team to me.
And obviously, playing Bayern is showing that.

Barca, Bayern, PSG, Dortmund, Atletico, and Real. After that, I can't think of a team clearly better than Juve. Bayern are just Bayern.

I don't see 8 teams from either list. Therefore, Juventus are a top-8 team in Europe.

 

[Pouchkine]

A goalie picking an intentional back pass with his hands results in an indirect free kick not a penalty. And those are usually quite funny to watch and not often result in goals.

The rule is just fine as it is, the real problem in football these days is all those teams playing counter attack and playing almost everyone behind the ball.

The rules of the game have seen a MAJOR improvement from what they were in the 60's 70's 80's. Most of the big changes have come in the 90's. Now the game is fine the spirit is good, it's time for coaches to find ways to create offense.

 

[S E P H]

Are you really suggesting buying a just under 200M CB?

Great use of resources.

Read again, I said he would be under 200 million. He wouldn't be cheap, but enough being cheap. Being cheap has won Arsenal how many titles or CL Round of 16 games? None. Getting spanked by Monaco and AC Milan is more of the norm.

Gabriel has been injured. Definitely not match fit. I enjoy your over-exaggeration though. Hyperbole is not your friend in having a rational conversation, although I've seen that that is rarely your goal.

Case in point, spending that much on a center back.

I would rather have hyperbole, but accurate pinpoints in a conversation, than to be delusional. Arsenal could have won this game and the loss is a direct result of the lack of spending by Wenger.

Just look at the sequences of what happened.

0. Starting Ramsey, OX, and Mertesacker.....first mistake.

1. Mertesacker is caught out of position and because he doesn't have the speed or any talent whatsoever, he's useless. Again at Barca's first goal.

2. So Wenger takes off Giroud and puts on Welbeck. Danny Welbeck, he's been a good signing when he's played, but honestly...against Barcelona you want him to get the tying goal? I appreciate your faith if you thought he would get one.

3. Should take off Coquelin for a more offensive midfielder, anybody with a brain would know that being down 1-0, doesn't require a CDM anymore. But since he has nobody ****in' else because he doesn't buy anybody, he puts on Flamini to give Coq a rest.

4. Minutes later, Mertesacker brings the ball down and gives the dumbest pass to a garbage player who shouldn't be on the field for the first place.

This is ****in' Arsenal, not ****in' Las Palmas.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I don't see 8 teams from either list. Therefore, Juventus are a top-8 team in Europe.

I wasn't agreeing with Evilo. They are a top 8 team.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Read again, I said he would be under 200 million. He wouldn't be cheap, but enough being cheap. Being cheap has won Arsenal how many titles or CL Round of 16 games? None. Getting spanked by Monaco and AC Milan is more of the norm.


I would rather have hyperbole, but accurate pinpoints in a conversation, than to be delusional. Arsenal could have won this game and the loss is a direct result of the lack of spending by Wenger.

Just look at the sequences of what happened.

0. Starting Ramsey, OX, and Mertesacker.....first mistake.

1. Mertesacker is caught out of position and because he doesn't have the speed or any talent whatsoever, he's useless. Again at Barca's first goal.

2. So Wenger takes of Giroud and puts on Welbeck. Danny Welbeck, he's been a good signing when he's played, but honestly...against Barcelona you want him to get the tying goal? I appreciate your faith if you thought he would get one.

3. Should take off Coquelin for a more offensive midfielder, anybody with a brain would know that being down 1-0, doesn't require a CDM anymore. But since he has nobody ****in' else because he doesn't buy anybody, he puts on Flamini to give Coq a rest.

4. Minutes later, Mertesacker brings the ball down and gives the dumbest pass to a garbage player who shouldn't be on the field for the first place.

This is ****in' Arsenal, not ****in' Las Palmas.

Arsenal wish they were as good as Las Palmas.

 

[cgf]

A goalie picking an intentional back pass with his hands results in an indirect free kick not a penalty. And those are usually quite funny to watch and not often result in goals.

...and I just watched Schalke botch one this past weekend...no clue why I typed penalty there.

 

[kov]

Who would you play in place of Mertesacker?

They've also got Gabriel but honestly I think Barca would've taken advantage of his youth and aggressiveness. Not sure I'd play him over Mertesacker either, in spite of his ... Mertesackerness.

(Basing this more on seeing him in Villarreal than in Arsenal).

 

[S E P H]

Arsenal wish they were as good as Las Palmas.

Hell, they were able to at least score a goal against Barca last weekend. Better than whatever Arsenal did.

And it's not like Barcelona's backline is this amazing Carbon-Nanotube-Kevlar-Anti-Superman resistant material. It was shaky in this game and ter Stegen isn't close to being Buffon 2.0. Only player who I thought was really, really good tonight was 32 year old Alves for their defender/goalkeeper.

 

[YNWA14]

It would be interesting to see a Bayern/Barcelona final. That said I don't agree that Dortmund are better than Juventus and certainly not clearly.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Are you really suggesting buying a just under 200M CB?

Great use of resources.

Read again, I said he would be under 200 million. He wouldn't be cheap, but enough being cheap. Being cheap has won Arsenal how many titles or CL Round of 16 games? None. Getting spanked by Monaco and AC Milan is more of the norm.

Are you really arguing about the difference between "just under 200M" and "under 200M"?

GMAFB.

 

[Hadoop]

Not sure why everyone is so critical of Arsenal. They were playing Barca who

1) Has make both Real and Atletico look weak domestically
2) Has the best player in the world, and the second best, and the third best
3) With Bayern and Juve's injury woes also currently have the best back-4 in the world
4) Have either the best or second best midfield in the world

2-0 is a an expected scoreline when both teams bring their B+ games.

Even if Arsenal had a better CB, CDM and ST they would still lose, but perhaps Barca would then have had to bring their A game to win.

 

[Hadoop]

It would be interesting to see a Bayern/Barcelona final.

Agreed. Seems a healthy Bayern is the closest thing to Barca's equal this year

 

[Deficient Mode]

It would be interesting to see a Bayern/Barcelona final. That said I don't agree that Dortmund are better than Juventus and certainly not clearly.

They have more points per match in a tougher domestic competition this season. That's all I mean. All those other clubs have put in better performances domestically and/or in Europe than Juve this season.

Comparable individual talent I guess but Dortmund are better collectively imo.

 

[cgf]

I'd rather see two legs of healthy Bayern v healthy Barca, if the football gods are taking requests.