CFL 2024

[bellagiobob]

I generally agree with the comments about MBT. He's done everything you'd expect in the starts this season with only 2 games being below average (2nd Ottawa game and 1st Hamilton game). His relief appearance Saturday was also pretty bad, but I'm not sure how much of that was the recievers also getting flustered by the Winnipeg secondary as they (Gitten in particular) seemed to be getting confused about where to be on the field and when to look back at the ball.

For Ford the jury is still out. His good games have been very good and very entertaining, but he's also had several stinkers both last year and this year.

I am a bit hesitant, however, to read too much into Saturday's game. It was his first start in awhile, and it was vs. a team that's been to 3 straight Grey Cups and currently the best pass defense in the league and it's not particularly close. This same defense held Vernon Adams to 0 points and 4 first downs in an entire game. Have no doubt, I think Ford was bad on Saturday and was calling for MBT to relieve him even before the INT, but I'm just not sure how much of it was him vs how much of it was Winnipeg getting to him.

Big picture, I'd probably start Ford as ultimately a Cup run is a pipe dream this year and we may be better off developing him for next year and another try against an elite defense should benefit him in how to read it in future years. But small picture, I'd start MBT as he might give them a better chance at having some kind of passing game on Friday.

Ford may or may not be the answer long term, but we know for sure that MBT is not, so I'd start Ford again, but with a shorter leash. At some point the team has to show some sort of confidence in the player, something they just refuse to do. Give him the same opportunity that they've given the last few QB's who have ranged from awful to mediocre.

 

[bone]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838642589257601455

This is a pretty lazy oversimplification of the current situation. The offense had been humming along very well with MBT all season but lost most of those games for reasons beyond MBT. It's also extremely deceptive to basically attribute Cornelius' losses to MBT when trying to draw attention to the bigger picture especially when those decisions weren't made by this coach.

Under JJ's watch, MBT is 3-3, and Ford is 2-1 (though one of those Ford wins was basically a 50/50 split in game play), so the gap for the current coach is pretty much negligible.

Also, in the four games prior to Ford returning the group was much more in sync than it was on Saturday.

I certainly can see the argument for sticking with Ford and have made those arguments in this thread but Gregor's barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That post from Gregor is beyond stupid. MBT for instance getting the W in the game Ford was again injured in. Ford is also getting the team when the improvements have been made in lineup and coaching change and the team ready to roll.

Ford Isn't the reason for all these W's. he's maybe been a big factor in a few of them. He's had as many games or more when he's the reason a team is losing, for instance last game where the Elks were hanging with Winnipeg in every facet of play. Indeed the fumble and one of the picks when the game was still close were major reasons we lost. It was 10-10 when Ford threw up that awful ball, and unpressured. Bombers took it in to score 7 and take the game right there.

Records only show so much. MBT has been hands down better than Ford this season. Would anybody even argue differently?

MBT has been the starting QB in GC win as well. he can be the answer. Not sure why it would be concluded that he cannot be.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This is a pretty lazy oversimplification of the current situation. The offense had been humming along very well with MBT all season but lost most of those games for reasons beyond MBT. It's also extremely deceptive to basically attribute Cornelius' losses to MBT when trying to draw attention to the bigger picture especially when those decisions weren't made by this coach.

Under JJ's watch, MBT is 3-3, and Ford is 2-1 (though one of those Ford wins was basically a 50/50 split in game play), so the gap for the current coach is pretty much negligible.

Also, in the four games prior to Ford returning the group was much more in sync than it was on Saturday.

I certainly can see the argument for sticking with Ford and have made those arguments in this thread but Gregor's barking up the wrong tree.

Spector straight up simplifying. Agreed.

i get that people want Ford to be the great hope but is he really? Is he really such a factor that wins and losses revolve around him? He's a good sparkplug and maybe even good coming off bench (not substantiated yet) but as a starter theres been hits and misses.

MBT is the best we've had at quick reads in sometime. He's not costing the club and throwing lots of picks or anything. He's been the best passing QB we got, by miles really.

Indeed the team was never better in the 4 games and MBT really took it over. How do you not start with the kind of passing stats he's getting?

 

[bellagiobob]

This is a pretty lazy oversimplification of the current situation. The offense had been humming along very well with MBT all season but lost most of those games for reasons beyond MBT. It's also extremely deceptive to basically attribute Cornelius' losses to MBT when trying to draw attention to the bigger picture especially when those decisions weren't made by this coach.

Under JJ's watch, MBT is 3-3, and Ford is 2-1 (though one of those Ford wins was basically a 50/50 split in game play), so the gap for the current coach is pretty much negligible.

Also, in the four games prior to Ford returning the group was much more in sync than it was on Saturday.

I certainly can see the argument for sticking with Ford and have made those arguments in this thread but Gregor's barking up the wrong tree.

I think his point is more that the coaches have given plenty of runway to our last two starting QB's, but when it comes to Ford, the runway is pretty much non existent. At least pretend you have confidence in the player.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Spector straight up simplifying. Agreed.

i get that people want Ford to be the great hope but is he really? Is he really such a factor that wins and losses revolve around him? He's a good sparkplug and maybe even good coming off bench (not substantiated yet) but as a starter theres been hits and misses.

MBT is the best we've had at quick reads in sometime. He's not costing the club and throwing lots of picks or anything. He's been the best passing QB we got, by miles really.

Indeed the team was never better in the 4 games and MBT really took it over. How do you not start with the kind of passing stats he's getting?

I think the team would be better creating specific packages to get ford in the game

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think the team would be better creating specific packages to get ford in the game

Provided Ford does what got him here. Somebody must've told him he's a pass first QB. I don't know if he's getting away from his bread and butter. To me Ford gains confidence running with the ball or buying time back there and then throwing a strike. Its happening less often. he's still scampered but there was none of it this weekend. His threat and ability to run the ball is the most salient reason for him even being in the league. It ain't his arm or reads.

 

[bone]

I think his point is more that the coaches have given plenty of runway to our last two starting QB's, but when it comes to Ford, the runway is pretty much non existent. At least pretend you have confidence in the player.

Jackson's first move as OC was turfing Cornelius and never again giving him any meaningful playing time. That's my issue with his comment. Ford has started 13 of 24 games since JJ was OC with 4 more of those games being ones where Ford was injured and Ford also getting snaps in 3 of the games he didn't start.

Jackson has shown plenty of confidence Ford. You are putting the sins on Chris Jones on the wrong guy. He's just thinking about who he believes gives them the best chance on Friday. Likely nothing more and likely nothing less.

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838642589257601455

It's also a different head coach who has actually won a game as opposed to the coach who's team went 0-7

 

[bellagiobob]

Jackson's first move as OC was turfing Cornelius and never again giving him any meaningful playing time. That's my issue with his comment. Ford has started 13 of 24 games since JJ was OC with 4 more of those games being ones where Ford was injured and Ford also getting snaps in 3 of the games he didn't start.

Jackson has shown plenty of confidence Ford. You are putting the sins on Chris Jones on the wrong guy. He's just thinking about who he believes gives them the best chance on Friday. Likely nothing more and likely nothing less.

Hope you're right, I'm thinking back to when JJ was promoted to HC, and one of the first things he mentioned was some dig at Ford, thought that wasn't the best way to start his tenure. As OC he likely had a lot of input on who to start, and chose to stay with the guy who started the season 0-7. I'm just thinking long term on this, that come next year we will be starting all over again looking for a QB.

 

[bone]

Hope you're right, I'm thinking back to when JJ was promoted to HC, and one of the first things he mentioned was some dig at Ford, thought that wasn't the best way to start his tenure. As OC he likely had a lot of input on who to start, and chose to stay with the guy who started the season 0-7. I'm just thinking long term on this, that come next year we will be starting all over again looking for a QB.

For sure. But I'm also looking at his time as coach. Since he's been coach, Tre has started 3 of 9 games and played in 6 of 9 games despite Ford dealing with an injury during this time frame. I think he's willing to be hard on Ford but has shown to be much more quick to give him another chance to prove himself than Jones or McAdoo.

As for whether or not it's the right decision for Friday, I see both sides of the argument and likely lean towards Ford as I'm looking at it from a perspective of long term and the impact that would be for next year. Jackson can't look at it that way as anything that prioritizes next year over this year, makes him lose the room. So I understand the decision and hope he's right on it and we're still playing meaningful football in October.

 

[joestevens29]

For sure. But I'm also looking at his time as coach. Since he's been coach, Tre has started 3 of 9 games and played in 6 of 9 games despite Ford dealing with an injury during this time frame. I think he's willing to be hard on Ford but has shown to be much more quick to give him another chance to prove himself than Jones or McAdoo.

As for whether or not it's the right decision for Friday, I see both sides of the argument and likely lean towards Ford as I'm looking at it from a perspective of long term and the impact that would be for next year. Jackson can't look at it that way as anything that prioritizes next year over this year, makes him lose the room. So I understand the decision and hope he's right on it and we're still playing meaningful football in October.

Jackson may or may not be here next year either, so doing what's best on the field for this year is going to be his priority.

Now whether or not MBT or Ford is the answer doesn't matter. He's making his decisions and will have to live with them

 

[OfCorsiDid]

That post from Gregor is beyond stupid. MBT for instance getting the W in the game Ford was again injured in. Ford is also getting the team when the improvements have been made in lineup and coaching change and the team ready to roll.

Ford Isn't the reason for all these W's. he's maybe been a big factor in a few of them. He's had as many games or more when he's the reason a team is losing, for instance last game where the Elks were hanging with Winnipeg in every facet of play. Indeed the fumble and one of the picks when the game was still close were major reasons we lost. It was 10-10 when Ford threw up that awful ball, and unpressured. Bombers took it in to score 7 and take the game right there.

Records only show so much. MBT has been hands down better than Ford this season. Would anybody even argue differently?

MBT has been the starting QB in GC win as well. he can be the answer. Not sure why it would be concluded that he cannot be.

I mean that discussion is impossible to have since Ford has literally had only 63 passing attempts all season.

We talk about giving some players some "runway" to prove they belong, but this season Ford hasn't been given a runway, he hasn't even been given a driveway. Injuries or not.

 

[bone]

I mean that discussion is impossible to have since Ford has literally had only 63 passing attempts all season.

We talk about giving some players some "runway" to prove they belong, but this season Ford hasn't been given a runway, he hasn't even been given a driveway. Injuries or not.

He's been behind centre for portions of every game that Jackson has coached except for 2 games he didn't dress and 1 more which was his first game coming off injury. I'd also be shocked if he doesn't get at least a couple series on Friday.

Jackson is using him exactly the way many would have expected once they signed a veteran to run the offense. The first 5 games tainted that picture as Jones did his best to run him out of town, but Jackson has clearly had an eye on developing Ford while trying to win games at the same time.

Friday's decision may prove to be right or prove to be wrong, but at least Jackson's giving Tre chances.

 

[Stoneman89]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838642589257601455

Jeezus, relax Jason. Because last game went so well. Let's give them a little different look and see how it goes. Put in Ford shortly after things don't seem to be working out.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Gregor throws out the dumbest stats. They “won 13 out of 50”… Apparently that means they shouldn’t try and put the lineup out that gives them the best chance to squeak into the playoffs.

What a stupid argument. Losses from 3 seasons aren’t relevant to this current playoff push.

 

[bone]

Gregor throws out the dumbest stats. They “won 13 out of 50”… Apparently that means they shouldn’t try and put the lineup out that gives them the best chance to squeak into the playoffs.

What a stupid argument. Losses from 3 seasons aren’t relevant to this current playoff push.

What are you talking about?

Of course the fact we lost some games in 2021 with a completely different starting 45, different coaches, different GMs, different presidents and different owners is relevant to who is starting Friday night.

The funny thing is that if he agreed with the move he'd totally blast a caller for talking about things that previous teams and leadership did in terms of being relevant to a single game day decision.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

What are you talking about?

Of course the fact we lost some games in 2021 with a completely different starting 45, different coaches, different GMs, different presidents and different owners is relevant to who is starting Friday night.

 

[bone]

I know. I'm teasing as I agree with you. Gregor talking about games from 3 years ago as if they are relevant tomorrow is pretty dumb.

 

[Stoneman89]

I mean that discussion is impossible to have since Ford has literally had only 63 passing attempts all season.

We talk about giving some players some "runway" to prove they belong, but this season Ford hasn't been given a runway, he hasn't even been given a driveway. Injuries or not.

One of Ford's biggest issues though in his "development" is that everytime he does seem to get some runway, he gets injured. It's pretty hard to develop and get more playing time when you're constantly coming back from the infirmary.

Where does Gregor get that they think MBT is the long term answer? Now he's just making up conjective shit to try to emphasize a weak point.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

One of Ford's biggest issues though in his "development" is that everytime he does seem to get some runway, he gets injured. It's pretty hard to develop and get more playing time when you're constantly coming back from the infirmary.

Fair enough. I'm still pissed at him being held out early in the year. If we're talking about development, him getting zero snaps this season under Jones did not help lol.

 

[bone]

Where does Gregor get that they think MBT is the long term answer? Now he's just making up conjective shit to try to emphasize a weak point.

Also where does he think an interim coach reporting to an interim GM has the flexibilty to worry more about next year than next week.

I agree with his logic that long term Ford starting may be the better move with an eye to next season and beyond, but neither Gregor or my jobs are on the line based on the actual result from Friday's game.

And if any player in that room thought JJ was prioritizing next year over next week when the team is still in the hunt, they would quit on him and wouldn't want to come back next year anyways.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

He's been behind centre for portions of every game that Jackson has coached except for 2 games he didn't dress and 1 more which was his first game coming off injury. I'd also be shocked if he doesn't get at least a couple series on Friday.

Jackson is using him exactly the way many would have expected once they signed a veteran to run the offense. The first 5 games tainted that picture as Jones did his best to run him out of town, but Jackson has clearly had an eye on developing Ford while trying to win games at the same time.

Friday's decision may prove to be right or prove to be wrong, but at least Jackson's giving Tre chances.

Yep, Jackson's in a tough spot. You want to develop your young QB, but this team needs to win. Just makes him getting zero playing time when the team was on the 8 game losing streak even more ridiculous.

 

[bone]

Yep, Jackson's in a tough spot. You want to develop your young QB, but this team needs to win. Just makes him getting zero playing time when the team was on the 8 game losing streak even more ridiculous.

You mean last year here, correct? If so, I agree that was the dumbest thing ever by Jones.

He got his first reps this year the first game after Jones was fired and that was likely limited moreso as it was coming off a extremely short week with no time to change much of the strategy. This occured after 5 losses.

 

[K1984]

Fair enough. I'm still pissed at him being held out early in the year. If we're talking about development, him getting zero snaps this season under Jones did not help lol.

Bringing in MBT was extremely stupid.

Now we're in a position where we don't know whether we need to re-sign the 36 year old QB and move on from the promising QB, or overpay the promising QB to retain him only for him to potentially flop and start over. The worst part in a weird way is that Ford has shown just enough in limited action to potentially draw a bigger pay day out of somebody despite the small book of work. At this point it might not even matter, he probably wants to move on to an organization that will give him a semblance of clear direction.

This year would have been perfect to test drive Ford for the season to see what he can actually do with a full season as the named starter. If he works, great, if he doesn't, at least we know. Instead they chose not to, then he got hurt after 2.5 games, and now they have to play MBT because they aren't in a standings position to risk a repeat performance from last week by Ford.

Then going a step further - if MBT finishes the season well, is the organization really in a position to potentially go backwards taking a risk with Ford? The "let's just get through the year without losing our shirt" business decision probably leans towards MBT.