CFL 2024

[MoontoScott]

An important season but you want to move forward with an old and declining QB over ford. What about after this season when Ford is else where and our QB is pushing 40?

We could always go with Corey Perry or Derek Ryan once their Oiler contracts are done.

 

[bone]

No, thank you for the answers. I wasn't questioning your Commonwealth take, I was just asking for more information.

I will question that people didn't attend the college clash on account of the Elks sucking. The Elks were on a 5-1 heater going into the Sept 21 game against the Bombers. So that performance was certainly not the reason the College clash didn't work. I just checked back and the tickets were 15 bucks. Practically giving them away.

Students! Campus Clash is back - Get your $15 ticket now - Edmonton Elks

CAMPUS CLASH IS BACK ON SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 21 AT COMMONWEALTH STADIUM! ENJOY A NIGHT OUT WITH FRIENDS AND CHEER ON THE ELKS IN OUR EXCLUSIVE STUDENT SECTIONS! YOUR $15 ELKS TICKET IS YOUR CHANCE TO WIN A TRIP TO AMSTERDAM DURING THE 2025 FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN DUTCH GRAND PRIX. WEAR YOUR SCHOOL...

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There was concern from the org and pundits how poorly the College clash was received and there were no answers from the brass on why the promotion failed. It was a topic of concern.

Yeah, I can remember this game and was surprised there wasn't a bigger crowd after the virtual sellout vs. Calgary, though the people who were there were well engaged despite very little action on the field.

Going into it, it was being talked about as a potential battle for first place as Edmonton had won 5 of 6 and were in a postion to catch the Bombers for first if they could muster a sweep of the two game series and the weather was decent being 15 degrees at kickoff with no precipitation in sight. All this plus the hype from them announcing two weeks prior that they were giving Ford the start.

That game would have been one of the biggest concerns I'd have if I'm LT because that's about as good a scenario as you could ask for going into that game and it didn't really catch on.

 

[bone]

I think that a factor in the poor attendance in the fall despite their stronger play at the time is multi faceted.

1 - when the team effectively eliminates themselves from contention early, people have already moved on by the fall. 5-1 in their last 6 doesn't matter when people aren't paying attention.

2 - Oilers camp starts and sucks all the air out of the local sports landscape. Elks could be 12-0 at that point and the start of Oiler camp would still lead the headlines. "We might maybe make the playoffs if we win this game and a bunch more" doesn't get on the front page.

If the team starts well when there is no hockey and no other sports in the summer then I think that there might be staying power as far as attention goes into the fall. When they go 0-5 every year, they're written off by 80% of fans until next year.

Decent point about the Oilers camp for the game on September 21st, but at that point they still hadn't even played an exhibition game yet so while it could have had an impact it shouldn't have been massive yet.

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

I'd already answered I would have MBT as starter or somebody like Vernon Adams who was available. People don't want to hear it but its a crucial season for the Elks to try to get fanbase traction back. It is a risk going with a starter with limited experience that has had some injury problems and has never been healthy for more than 5 games.

Heres the deal. In BC there is an attendance record of Rourke elevating attendance, putting bums in the seats. He's that good, and good enough to attract NFL attention. I don't put Ford in that category, and theres been no commensurate increase in attendance on games where it was announced Ford would be starting. Theres talk online supporting this deal, people saying they like it etc. But theres been a lot of talk about people going to games and growing interest for several years here and all the "new fans" never showed up in significant amounts. Maybe Ford will put bums in the seats. At this point its an unknown. The Elks attendance had cratered to20K average and thats even with the Stamps LD rematch factored in.

I get that the team has to spend money to make money and have good players on the field. Its not a given the fans show up in anycase. People are assuming that. Even during a winning streak this year there wasn't much of an effect.

The fans didn't and don't want MBT. It's why we were all chanting "We Want Ford" at numerous games. The fanbase had no confidence in him.
MBT might be able to limp the team along to a .500 record (maybe), but it does absolutely nothing to inspire the fans. LT is trying to built a team for the future, engage fans, old & new, and create a buzz about the team. MBT is about as exciting as watching my neighbour paint his fence.

Ford might not be the second coming of Tracy Ham or Ricky Ray, but he also might be. At the end of the day, he was the best option available to the Elks.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeah, I can remember this game and was surprised there wasn't a bigger crowd after the virtual sellout vs. Calgary, though the people who were there were well engaged despite very little action on the field.

Going into it, it was being talked about as a potential battle for first place as Edmonton had won 5 of 6 and were in a postion to catch the Bombers for first if they could muster a sweep of the two game series and the weather was decent being 15 degrees at kickoff with no precipitation in sight. All this plus the hype from them announcing two weeks prior that they were giving Ford the start.

That game would have been one of the biggest concerns I'd have if I'm LT because that's about as good a scenario as you could ask for going into that game and it didn't really catch on.

Exactly. I dare say as that was a bellwether moment that people weren't coming, and that Ford was announced as starter, and the team went into the game 5-1. In Business school they would call that a case study. The College promotion has been considered very important, and just to get new and younger fans in the stands. beautiful fall day, Best Western Club in attendance, feelings of playoffs in the air. I don't know tht this game attendance also had a deleterious impact on some players. They had been busting their butts to try to get some more action and gate at Commonwealth. If that College promotion was a success then I would feel differently about the fortunes. Just that theres been no indication to this point attendance will go up. My guess is it does a little. Maybe we get a slight uptick. But as others have suggested it might be hundreds rather than thousands of more fans per game.

The new ownership and everything should have a postive impact on attendance forthcoming.

I know if I was looking down the barrel of estimated 5M in losses for this season that I wouldn't be a bit nervous. Those in the know, and I've asked, how much is he prepared to lose? Obviously he knew what he was getting into as the club had been averaging 4M losses per season.

 

[bone]

I'd already answered I would have MBT as starter or somebody like Vernon Adams who was available. People don't want to hear it but its a crucial season for the Elks to try to get fanbase traction back. It is a risk going with a starter with limited experience that has had some injury problems and has never been healthy for more than 5 games.

Heres the deal. In BC there is an attendance record of Rourke elevating attendance, putting bums in the seats. He's that good, and good enough to attract NFL attention. I don't put Ford in that category, and theres been no commensurate increase in attendance on games where it was announced Ford would be starting. Theres talk online supporting this deal, people saying they like it etc. But theres been a lot of talk about people going to games and growing interest for several years here and all the "new fans" never showed up in significant amounts. Maybe Ford will put bums in the seats. At this point its an unknown. The Elks attendance had cratered to20K average and thats even with the Stamps LD rematch factored in.

I get that the team has to spend money to make money and have good players on the field. Its not a given the fans show up in anycase. People are assuming that. Even during a winning streak this year there wasn't much of an effect.

MBT as the starter wouldn't have moved the needle whatsoever for attendance. With how many people felt about him, he may have negatively impacted season ticket sales. He had already played a season with little team succes with him behind centre, albeit he had some personal success.

Vernon Adams, I see your point, but I'm also not convinced he's much of a game breaker or a guy that can bring a team out of a funk on his own. His only prolonged success came playing for a team that was firing on all cylinders before their starter got injured and he parlayed that into a second quality season where the team around him was still top notch. Would he have sold tickets in the offseason, maybe, but I don't think he'd create as much excitement going into the season as Ford. Maybe he has an edge in the likeliness to succeed once the season started, though, which would help sales going into Labour Day and beyond.

Ford, I'm with you that there's a lot of risk here both from an injury perspective and that it's still unknown how he'll be able to handle the games once teams have a lot of game film on him. But from a ticket sale perspective if we want pre-season hype, he's probably the best option they could have got. The real question will be whether he can carry that hype into early season wins to build on any of that hype, and hopefully he can stay healthy and productive.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The fans didn't and don't want MBT. It's why we were all chanting "We Want Ford" at numerous games. The fanbase had no confidence in him.
MBT might be able to limp the team along to a .500 record (maybe), but it does absolutely nothing to inspire the fans. LT is trying to built a team for the future, engage fans, old & new, and create a buzz about the team. MBT is about as exciting as watching my neighbour paint his fence.

Ford might not be the second coming of Tracy Ham or Ricky Ray, but he also might be. At the end of the day, he was the best option available to the Elks.

Yeah, I'd already acknowledged earlier the fans got what they wanted. But I think MBT wasn't given a fair shake either. first 7 games the team wasn't competitive on all sides of the ball and losing 7-0 straight despite MBT passing for some of the highest yds in the league to that point and having multiple +300passing games the first 3 games. McLeod was possibly the best player on the field those games. He also passed for 486yds one game. The perception that he's some kind of awful is a distortion, and its a long going distortion. The fanbase haven't liked any QB we've had since Reilly. They like ford currently, yes.

In anycase we've batted this around. having taken deep look at QB contracts its not any out of the ballpark contract. just a bit much I feel for a QB that has not had too many starts and isn't Bourke. Its positive though that people are speaking of transactions the club is making, at least online. The crux is for interest to translate to ticket sales.

I certainly see from the Elks pov that they heard the fans speak and gave em what they wanted. I'm not certain however such decisions should come from fan opinion. just saying.

 

[Drivesaitl]

MBT as the starter wouldn't have moved the needle whatsoever for attendance. With how many people felt about him, he may have negatively impacted season ticket sales. He had already played a season with little team succes with him behind centre, albeit he had some personal success.

Vernon Adams, I see your point, but I'm also not convinced he's much of a game breaker or a guy that can bring a team out of a funk on his own. His only prolonged success came playing for a team that was firing on all cylinders before their starter got injured and he parlayed that into a second quality season where the team around him was still top notch. Would he have sold tickets in the offseason, maybe, but I don't think he'd create as much excitement going into the season as Ford. Maybe he has an edge in the likeliness to succeed once the season started, though, which would help sales going into Labour Day and beyond.

Ford, I'm with you that there's a lot of risk here both from an injury perspective and that it's still unknown how he'll be able to handle the games once teams have a lot of game film on him. But from a ticket sale perspective if we want pre-season hype, he's probably the best option they could have got. The real question will be whether he can carry that hype into early season wins to build on any of that hype, and hopefully he can stay healthy and productive.

Yeah. As per always appreciate your responses. Agreed that MBT himself likely doesn't move ticket sales. But I think too the fans turned on him early and despite him starting here chucking 1000yds in his first 3 games. That the boobirds were already out I think had also to do with frustration of longstanding fans seeing the Elks lose all the time. As QB you end up wearing the got horns for that. Thing is two of the losses at least were strictly due to botched FG kicking and abysmal special teams. The D as well were awful in team stats throughout much of season. Lots of reasons why a football club wins or loses as we know.

I think MBT was the right play despite it not working out in W's this season. It was a wise decision to bring in somebody proven and MBT is right up there with anybody for stats. Vernon Adams is the next right play and I'm not even a huge fan. Just that you know what you're getting with that guy and he has tons of experience in this league and seems resilient. We haven't seen Ford play a lot, and we haven't seen how it is if he's getting a lot of starts and if he's gonna take the banging game to game. A lot of QB's in this league have come in on a diet of less starts and been able to light things up. Doesn't mean they can take the season grind. Other risk with Ford is he's more subject to fumbles, we've been fortunate to have recovered a lot of the fumbles but he doesn't protect the ball when running in traffic. The last concern unmentioned is Ford is on the slight side for a 6ft1QB. He's 195lbs. For perspective MBT is 40lbs more. Collaros is same height as ford and 20lbs more on him. Not all that equates to everthing but physics wise when Ford is getting hit by big defenders he's getting tossed around. you don't see that as much with bigger QB's

 

[trick91]

Does MBT even want to play another year in the CFL?

 

[bone]

Does MBT even want to play another year in the CFL?

I think he would but only for starter's money which he isn't going to get at this point. So I bet he's done.

 

[brentashton]

I think he would but only for starter's money which he isn't going to get at this point. So I bet he's done.

Hey Bone, I posed our discussion from yesterday to Rob Vanstone and he got back to me this afternoon. The guy is such a wealth of information and just a darn good guy as well to even investigate the question and respond!

He suggested Bob Dyce as another candidate for a guy that was CIS player, trained, coached and then assumed a HC gig in the CFL. By golly I believe he’s correct. Manitoba bison wide receiver, coached at the UofM and then had HC gigs in Regina and Ottawa. He also had some time in Canadian junior but the other aspects do check out.

 

[bone]

Hey Bone, I posed our discussion from yesterday to Rob Vanstone and he got back to me this afternoon. The guy is such a wealth of information and just a darn good guy as well to even investigate the question and respond!

He suggested Bob Dyce as another candidate for a guy that was CIS player, trained, coached and then assumed a HC gig in the CFL. By golly I believe he’s correct. Manitoba bison wide receiver, coached at the UofM and then had HC gigs in Regina and Ottawa. He also had some time in Canadian junior but the other aspects do check out.

Thanks for sharing. I went digging on the weekend, and found out that about him. It's cool that there's two of them in the league right now. Good for the CIS, you'd think. Maciocia was also one, though he didn't even play CIS.

Maksymic would have also been a similar situation had he got the job with BC. Got his start in football by being Tom Higgins neighbour in St. Albert.

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

If the owner of the Elks can WFH in his underwear why can’t I?

 

[bellagiobob]

A bunch of not no subtle shots at the previous clown show running the team. Gotta feel good for him to actually feel wanted by the GM and coach.

 

[Stoneman89]

Yeah. As per always appreciate your responses. Agreed that MBT himself likely doesn't move ticket sales. But I think too the fans turned on him early and despite him starting here chucking 1000yds in his first 3 games. That the boobirds were already out I think had also to do with frustration of longstanding fans seeing the Elks lose all the time. As QB you end up wearing the got horns for that. Thing is two of the losses at least were strictly due to botched FG kicking and abysmal special teams. The D as well were awful in team stats throughout much of season. Lots of reasons why a football club wins or loses as we know.

I think MBT was the right play despite it not working out in W's this season. It was a wise decision to bring in somebody proven and MBT is right up there with anybody for stats. Vernon Adams is the next right play and I'm not even a huge fan. Just that you know what you're getting with that guy and he has tons of experience in this league and seems resilient. We haven't seen Ford play a lot, and we haven't seen how it is if he's getting a lot of starts and if he's gonna take the banging game to game. A lot of QB's in this league have come in on a diet of less starts and been able to light things up. Doesn't mean they can take the season grind. Other risk with Ford is he's more subject to fumbles, we've been fortunate to have recovered a lot of the fumbles but he doesn't protect the ball when running in traffic. The last concern unmentioned is Ford is on the slight side for a 6ft1QB. He's 195lbs. For perspective MBT is 40lbs more. Collaros is same height as ford and 20lbs more on him. Not all that equates to everthing but physics wise when Ford is getting hit by big defenders he's getting tossed around. you don't see that as much with bigger QB's

Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but based on all of your assessments of Cornholio during his time here, I will take your QB assessments with a grain of salt. As the late great John Short used to say, "you have a democratic right to be wrong".

P.S. I should also add that you trashed Patrick Mahomes when he lost a playoff game to Tom Brady and his Patriots back in the day (who didn't?), and since then, he's tacked on 2 more Superbowls.

 

[bellagiobob]

Pretty much confirms that he was gone if the old crew came back.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

If the owner of the Elks can WFH in his underwear why can’t I?

They’ve got a beautiful house in the Bahamas.

You’ll notice how everything is Double E now. Step one.

 

[MoontoScott]

Pretty much confirms that he was gone if the old crew came back.

But Ford knew they weren't coming back. Thompson essentially said as much in interviews. When I heard LT say "we have a lot of work to do" it was obvious what he meant. It was time to get out the broom.

LT knows that if the club is going to be viable going forward then you have to sell tickets in a gate driven league. Who is the one player who people want to see? Of course its Ford despite the fact that he hasn't really established himself as a full time starter. I think he will but we will see. He may or may not be the new Russ Jackson.

No way was the fan base going to accept the fact that it was a "new era so come be part of it" if you were going with a guy who is 37 years old and has the mobility of a spruce tree. That wasn't in the cards.

Now we sit back and see how many free agents come to play for the EE. Suddenly, Edmonton is back on the radar in terms of desirable destinations.

 

[K1984]

They’ve got a beautiful house in the Bahamas.

You’ll notice how everything is Double E now. Step one.

The John Deere logo has to just get scrapped.

Everything about the new ownership and leadership has felt so good, then my stomach twists when I see the John Deere every now and again. Just get rid of it. I can almost live with the "Elk" name if they just scrap the branding.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The John Deere logo has to just get scrapped.

Everything about the new ownership and leadership has felt so good, then my stomach twists when I see the John Deere every now and again. Just get rid of it. I can almost live with the "Elk" name if they just scrap the branding.

Its bad enough on Jersey or merchandising. Doesn't even work on the field. From the start it was just an ugly poorly conceived logo. I don't know anybody that actually likes the design. It probably could be possible to come up with some better design for an Elk, or not do it all and just classic EE as you say. Maybe for the kids or lasses they can continue with some Elk themed merchandise. They might like it, not sure why other than kids being attracted to animals..

 

[K1984]

Its bad enough on Jersey or merchandising. Doesn't even work on the field. From the start it was just an ugly poorly conceived logo. I don't know anybody that actually likes the design. It probably could be possible to come up with some better design for an Elk, or not do it all and just classic EE as you say. Maybe for the kids or lasses they can continue with some Elk themed merchandise. They might like it, not sure why other than kids being attracted to animals..

Especially with how it was pushed.

Look here! New logo! ITS REALLY COOL RIGHT! RIGHT!? We said we wouldn't rebrand, but would you look at those antlers! ELKS CHARGE!!!! EOOOOOOOONNNGNGG!!! (elk call). LIKE IT. PLEASE LIKE IT. Lots of people are buying merch!

I, like a lot of people, absolutely hate being compelled to agree with something or like something. Had they just done nothing with the uniforms and logo (like they promised) I might have forgotten about the name change by now. However, when I see John Deere and the needlessly redesigned EE logo and uniforms it's like tasting soap every time I engage with the team in any way.

 

[Drivesaitl]

But Ford knew they weren't coming back. Thompson essentially said as much in interviews. When I heard LT say "we have a lot of work to do" it was obvious what he meant. It was time to get out the broom.

LT knows that if the club is going to be viable going forward then you have to sell tickets in a gate driven league. Who is the one player who people want to see? Of course its Ford despite the fact that he hasn't really established himself as a full time starter. I think he will but we will see. He may or may not be the new Russ Jackson.

No way was the fan base going to accept the fact that it was a "new era so come be part of it" if you were going with a guy who is 37 years old and has the mobility of a spruce tree. That wasn't in the cards.

Now we sit back and see how many free agents come to play for the EE. Suddenly, Edmonton is back on the radar in terms of desirable destinations.

Is it completely a positive that Ford needed these changes in order to stay here? Jarious I thought did a decent job in the difficult situation of stepping in. Turned a team that dead in the water to one with some belief and that was competing on field. Seems like the only reason Ford wouldn't want JJ is that he felt he wasn't getting enough starts, even though he would be likely to in a new season.

Some of the problems is we have a new starting QB compounded by a new head coach, a new offensive cooridinator, and all this on a team that wasn't consistently winning anyway. The learning curve is severe and as per reports Ford isn't great at learning indepth playbooks. Sure the Elks cleaned house on everything. But that means starting fresh and what precedents are there to have so many changes and then put a playoff team on the field the same year. As frustrated fans I get the notion that sometimes we just want flushing, we want change. I've been more inclined to keep what works and lose what doesn't. This is a board (not just this thread) calling for coaching change every other day. coaches are cannon fodder on the board. The give the fans what they want can be dangerous sometimes. Many of the fans here would've traded Draisaitl multiple times. Some fans would have even traded McD. Just making the point that none of us, myself included, have enough information or expertise to make such calls. Strikes me that listening to fans to an overt degree is something an expansion club would do initially. Just in a desperate ploy to sell short term tickets.

I see that there could be potential positives but what the Elks have done is lock into a risky play lacking incumbent experience across multiple positions. This is a hell of a lot of changeover.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Especially with how it was pushed.

Look here! New logo! ITS REALLY COOL RIGHT! RIGHT!? We said we wouldn't rebrand, but would you look at those antlers! ELKS CHARGE!!!! EOOOOOOOONNNGNGG!!! (elk call). LIKE IT. PLEASE LIKE IT. Lots of people are buying merch!

I, like a lot of people, absolutely hate being compelled to agree with something or like something. Had they just done nothing with the uniforms and logo (like they promised) I might have forgotten about the name change by now. However, when I see John Deere and the needlessly redesigned EE logo and uniforms it's like tasting soap every time I engage with the team in any way.

For sure. I'm a fairly resistant consumer. None of that false leader was going to sell to me. Make my own interpretation and I'm not swayed by the marketing, which seemed infantile. I'd still be wearing my Eskimos Jersey, just how I roll with that.

At Commonwealth do people wear tons of the new Jerseys or older ones as well. Just curious.

 

[bone]

For sure. I'm a fairly resistant consumer. None of that false leader was going to sell to me. Make my own interpretation and I'm not swayed by the marketing, which seemed infantile. I'd still be wearing my Eskimos Jersey, just how I roll with that.

At Commonwealth do people wear tons of the new Jerseys or older ones as well. Just curious.

It's a mix really. Tough to put a number on it really, but my gut would say it's around 50/50, possibly a slight edge to newer ones.

Keep in mind the old jerseys and gear have now been out of production for nearly 5 years as I doubt many bought gear in the cancelled season. So slowly peoples clothing gets updated except those who have a traditional "uniform" that they've been wearing sometimes for decades.

There did seem to be a decent amount of this year's 3rds in the crowd as they were a decent looking jersey up close even though the numbers didn't present nicely on TV.

 

[Stoneman89]

But Ford knew they weren't coming back. Thompson essentially said as much in interviews. When I heard LT say "we have a lot of work to do" it was obvious what he meant. It was time to get out the broom.

LT knows that if the club is going to be viable going forward then you have to sell tickets in a gate driven league. Who is the one player who people want to see? Of course its Ford despite the fact that he hasn't really established himself as a full time starter. I think he will but we will see. He may or may not be the new Russ Jackson.

No way was the fan base going to accept the fact that it was a "new era so come be part of it" if you were going with a guy who is 37 years old and has the mobility of a spruce tree. That wasn't in the cards.

Now we sit back and see how many free agents come to play for the EE. Suddenly, Edmonton is back on the radar in terms of desirable destinations.

Maybe he knew they weren't coming back, or maybe he didn't, we don't know for sure. But the fact that he waited until all the other ducks were in a row before he signed, means he wanted to be damned sure first.