CFL 2024

[Tobias Kahun]

Let me guess who tapped your PM box. lol.

I didn't mind Cornelius as much as most here. He wasn't the reason the team was losing, the team was horrible. Even GC champ MBT who is among the better QB's in the league couldn't make this club have regular success.

In anycase regardless of personnel on the field the club is in dire trouble. Biggest decreases in attendance in the whole league and a team that had average attendance of20K, numbers that would be considered lousy decades ago in Clarke Stadium. lol. In CFL only 9home games a year. you Need a helluva lot more gate than that to get the club to stop the 4M per year bleeding. Audit on this season not done yet but given massive decreases in attendance its likely over a 5M operational loss this season. The team is in trouble. Its great that an owner stepped in but how much is he interested in losing?

It's just weird seeing the outcry on Ford getting paid.

When Cornelius got paid and couldnt even win games.

He was part of the reason the team sucked, he definitely contributed to it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's just weird seeing the outcry on Ford getting paid.

When Cornelius got paid and couldnt even win games.

He was part of the reason the team sucked, he definitely contributed to it.

Nah. The Elks arguably are making he same mistake. They overpaid Cornelius, they overpaid ARbuckle and gave a lot of term, and now theyr'e overpaying Ford. ALL were overpays. I mean who do the Elks think they're competing with? Its a Canadian QB that is less than Nathan Rourke . I wouldn't pay ANY QB this kind of money and especially if the org is bleeding funds. I don't what market there is for Ford and suspect its only CFL. So that the only offers Elks had to contend with in this deal is any other club even looking for a QB which might be 2-3 teams. Did the Elks really believe some other team was going to paying this?

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

Nah. The Elks arguably are making he same mistake. They overpaid Cornelius, they overpaid ARbuckle and gave a lot of term, and now theyr'e overpaying Ford. ALL were overpays. I mean who do the Elks think they're competing with? Its a Canadian QB that is less than Nathan Rourke . I wouldn't pay ANY QB this kind of money and especially if the org is bleeding funds. I don't what market there is for Ford and suspect its only CFL. So that the only offers Elks had to contend with in this deal is any other club even looking for a QB which might be 2-3 teams. Did the Elks really believe some other team was going to paying this?

So what would, in your mind, be an appropriate number for an exciting young QB that the fans are cheering for and want to see as the starter? The hills you seem to die on are quite interesting.

If you aren't paying Ford (which is not an exorbitant salary) who are you signing that will excite the fans and put bums in the seats? Fajardo? Mitchell? Maier? all older, boring and cost you more. The going rate for a starting QB is right where he is. We can pay more and bring Corn back or MBT. Both were and would be a disaster.

So tell us, if not Ford, then who?

 

[Drivesaitl]

So what would, in your mind, be an appropriate number for an exciting young QB that the fans are cheering for and want to see as the starter? The hills you seem to die on are quite interesting.

If you aren't paying Ford (which is not an exorbitant salary) who are you signing that will excite the fans and put bums in the seats? Fajardo? Mitchell? Maier? all older, boring and cost you more. The going rate for a starting QB is right where he is. We can pay more and bring Corn back or MBT. Both were and would be a disaster.

So tell us, if not Ford, then who?

I'm more than fine with MBT who is experienced, and a better QB. We're now paying over 1.3M for a QB with limited experience, starter money, and to a player that is running QB that has injury trouble. Ideally it works out but its odd to pay him THIS much. The consideration is reasonable and other people are asking. How much do you think other teams would pay. If not this much, then why did the Elks feel they had to go so high on the contract? What were other clubs prepared to pay? These are just obvious questions.

How is MBT a disaster when he had almost all the best passing games of the two QB's just last season? MBT was fine. To start the year the team was still awful. lots of new players, took awhile for the team to align at all.

In anycase do you have citation for what QB's are paid around league. I'm surprised theres been a lot of inflation in numbers I'm seeing. But in BC the Nathan Rourke situation is unique in that they have to pay the guy what he could otherwise make in NFL just carrying a clipboard. I think the Leos are payng too much and that the CFL doesn't justify such numbers but in the BC case it is the case that Rourke increases bums in seats. Theres no indication that Ford does that here or that he's good enough to generate sales like that. BC attendance has gone up immensely. Elks attendance has plummeted and WITH Ford as a QB here.

just found a decent link. QB pay higher than I would have expected for CFL. Seems to have been some rampant inflation there. Still, we're paying unproven Ford more than Vernon Adams, a starring vet, is getting.

https://3downnation.com/2024/05/07/the-cfls-15-highest-paid-quarterbacks-for-the-2024-season/

 

[bellagiobob]

It's just weird seeing the outcry on Ford getting paid.

When Cornelius got paid and couldnt even win games.

He was part of the reason the team sucked, he definitely contributed to it.

Not a peep when Cornelius was paid that ridiculous money or when he completely sucked.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Nah. The Elks arguably are making he same mistake. They overpaid Cornelius, they overpaid ARbuckle and gave a lot of term, and now theyr'e overpaying Ford. ALL were overpays. I mean who do the Elks think they're competing with? Its a Canadian QB that is less than Nathan Rourke . I wouldn't pay ANY QB this kind of money and especially if the org is bleeding funds. I don't what market there is for Ford and suspect its only CFL. So that the only offers Elks had to contend with in this deal is any other club even looking for a QB which might be 2-3 teams. Did the Elks really believe some other team was going to paying this?

Who in the hell are you paying to QB this team next year then?

 

[Stoneman89]

Nah. The Elks arguably are making he same mistake. They overpaid Cornelius, they overpaid ARbuckle and gave a lot of term, and now theyr'e overpaying Ford. ALL were overpays. I mean who do the Elks think they're competing with? Its a Canadian QB that is less than Nathan Rourke . I wouldn't pay ANY QB this kind of money and especially if the org is bleeding funds. I don't what market there is for Ford and suspect its only CFL. So that the only offers Elks had to contend with in this deal is any other club even looking for a QB which might be 2-3 teams. Did the Elks really believe some other team was going to paying this?

At least Ford has some type of track record for success, which Cornelious never had. Probably one of the worst contracts this organization has ever doled out.

 

[abootzky]

Younger fans in the stands on their own or with parents? I'm asking because the college discount night was a complete bust. Hardly any of those were sold. I check ticket sales regularly. Just something I like to follow.

Theres unfortunately a chance that once Ford is the guy he could have struggles. Unknown how patient the ticket buying fanbase will be with that.
We've got a lot of untried here. An untried starter, an untried HC, its likely theres gonna be hiccups.

With all due respect Mr. Drive, I think I have a better feel for the atmosphere and crowd composition in & around Commonwealth on gamedays than someone conducting "research" within the comfy confines of their own home. My educated opinion is that last season there was a far more youthful vibe at the games than during the so-called good old days.

Again my opinion, but any hiccups from the untried HC & QB1 won't come close to the gigantic patience-trying debacle created by the Sunderland/Elizondo/Jones 18-50 W-L record of the last 4 seasons. We die-hards have been through a lot, man.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Who in the hell are you paying to QB this team next year then?

Sounds like he wants to pay a 37 y/o MBT.

 

[MoontoScott]

It will be interesting to see if Killam can coax some life into the special teams.

You would think that during an 18 game schedule-- that just once---the opposition coverage would get caught out of their lanes and the EE would run it back for a TD?? It should probably happen by default. How many teams in the NFL/CFL have gone a whole year without a TD return? I don't know the answer but I think its pretty rare.

I have never seen a team with poorer kick returners. That's a good place to start for the new coach.

 

[K1984]

It will be interesting to see if Killam can coax some life into the special teams.

You would think that during an 18 game schedule-- that just once---the opposition coverage would get caught out of their lanes and the EE would run it back for a TD?? It should probably happen by default. How many teams in the NFL/CFL have gone a whole year without a TD return? I don't know the answer but I think its pretty rare.

I have never seen a team with poorer kick returners. That's a good place to start for the new coach.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the EE have only had a single return TD since COVID.

 

[bone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the EE have only had a single return TD since COVID.

Pretty sure it's only been 1 return TD since 2015. Deontez Alexander in 2023, and he's only played 2 CFL games in total.

 

[K1984]

Pretty sure it's only been 1 return TD since 2015. Deontez Alexander in 2023, and he's only played 2 CFL games in total.

I was originally going to suggest since 2015, but thought that timeline was so incredibly long that it couldn't possibly be accurate and that I would be mistaken.

I remember the one last season, and that's it since 2015. That has to be a record in Canadian Football that is unbreakable to the degree of Gretzky 50 in 39. I struggle to comprehend how that is even possible in the Canadian game. Even the worst team will return 2 or 3 by accident in a near 10 year span.

 

[bone]

I was originally going to suggest since 2015, but thought that timeline was so incredibly long that it couldn't possibly be accurate and that I would be mistaken.

I remember the one last season, and that's it since 2015. That has to be a record in Canadian Football that is unbreakable to the degree of Gretzky 50 in 39. I struggle to comprehend how that is even possible in the Canadian game. Even the worst team will return 2 or 3 by accident in a near 10 year span.

Over that same span, they've allowed 16 against. 16-1 over the last 8 complete seasons.

 

[Drivesaitl]

With all due respect Mr. Drive, I think I have a better feel for the atmosphere and crowd composition in & around Commonwealth on gamedays than someone conducting "research" within the comfy confines of their own home. My educated opinion is that last season there was a far more youthful vibe at the games than during the so-called good old days.

Again my opinion, but any hiccups from the untried HC & QB1 won't come close to the gigantic patience-trying debacle created by the Sunderland/Elizondo/Jones 18-50 W-L record of the last 4 seasons. We die-hards have been through a lot, man.

I wasn't questioning your knowledge. I was asking if the young crowd you were referrring to was kids with families or youth on their own? I'd mentioned the game the Elks had 20buck tickets for post secondary students was poorly attended. The sections available for that, hardly any of it was sold. I don't have to be there to know that it shows up on the ticketmaster map. Right?

 

[MoontoScott]

I was originally going to suggest since 2015, but thought that timeline was so incredibly long that it couldn't possibly be accurate and that I would be mistaken.

I remember the one last season, and that's it since 2015. That has to be a record in Canadian Football that is unbreakable to the degree of Gretzky 50 in 39. I struggle to comprehend how that is even possible in the Canadian game. Even the worst team will return 2 or 3 by accident in a near 10 year span.

I knew it was bad but not that bad. 1 TD return in essentially a decade? It just illustrates how the club has had difficulty in recruiting special team players/coaches to get the job done. You couldn't do worse if you tried.

Once upon a time, Gizmo and Larry Highbaugh were a threat to score every time they returned a kick. It usually amounted to a minimum 7 points per game. Apply that +7 points to the EE's first 8 games this season and they are in the playoffs.

Its such an exciting play too. Just one more thing on the "fix it" list for the team.

 

[abootzky]

I wasn't questioning your knowledge. I was asking if the young crowd you were referring to was kids with families or youth on their own? I'd mentioned the game the Elks had 20buck tickets for post secondary students was poorly attended. The sections available for that, hardly any of it was sold. I don't have to be there to know that it shows up on the ticketmaster map. Right?

I guess I didn't directly answer your question. The majority of the young crowd I saw at the Elks games in '24 was kids with families. However, I saw a higher than ever number of younger adult males, females, & groups there as well. Yes, the college student night was poorly attended - by EVERYONE because of the team's unceasing on-field suckage. Finally, I've looked at a ton of online Ticketmaster seating maps and failed every single time to get any sense of the atmosphere in any event venue. Even TV can't provide that sense of vibe as effectively as being there does.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not a peep when Cornelius was paid that ridiculous money or when he completely sucked.

BS. Albeit years later you still post like Cornelius kicked your dog or something. Corn wasn't paid all that much considering he made only 65K, league minimum his rookie year. Seems like you're getting confused with the Arbuckle contract,

Heres info on the respective contracts:

https://3downnation.com/2022/01/06/edmonton-elks-rework-quarterback-nick-arbuckles-contract-for-2022-season/#:~:text=New%20deal%20pays%20him%20same,negotiation%20list%20QB%20Chad%20Kelly.

https://3downnation.com/2022/09/21/contract-details-edmonton-elks-pay-qb-taylor-cornelius-over-100000-to-sign-extension/#:~:text=General%20manager%20and%20head%20coach,gold's%20active%20roster%20on%20Jan.

So that if one looks at Corn contracts in total its not near what Elks paid Arbuckle or now Ford.

Anyway I'm sure you'll still be posting about Cornelius a decade from now. Carry on.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I guess I didn't directly answer your question. The majority of the young crowd I saw at the Elks games in '24 was kids with families. However, I saw a higher than ever number of younger adult males, females, & groups there as well. Yes, the college student night was poorly attended - by EVERYONE because of the team's unceasing on-field suckage. Finally, I've looked at a ton of online Ticketmaster seating maps and failed every single time to get any sense of the atmosphere in any event venue. Even TV can't provide that sense of vibe as effectively as being there does.

No, thank you for the answers. I wasn't questioning your Commonwealth take, I was just asking for more information.

I will question that people didn't attend the college clash on account of the Elks sucking. The Elks were on a 5-1 heater going into the Sept 21 game against the Bombers. So that performance was certainly not the reason the College clash didn't work. I just checked back and the tickets were 15 bucks. Practically giving them away.

Students! Campus Clash is back - Get your $15 ticket now - Edmonton Elks

CAMPUS CLASH IS BACK ON SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 21 AT COMMONWEALTH STADIUM! ENJOY A NIGHT OUT WITH FRIENDS AND CHEER ON THE ELKS IN OUR EXCLUSIVE STUDENT SECTIONS! YOUR $15 ELKS TICKET IS YOUR CHANCE TO WIN A TRIP TO AMSTERDAM DURING THE 2025 FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN DUTCH GRAND PRIX. WEAR YOUR SCHOOL...

www.goelks.com

There was concern from the org and pundits how poorly the College clash was received and there were no answers from the brass on why the promotion failed. It was a topic of concern.

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

BS. Albeit years later you still post like Cornelius kicked your dog or something. Corn wasn't paid all that much considering he made only 65K, league minimum his rookie year. Seems like you're getting confused with the Arbuckle contract,

Heres info on the respective contracts:

https://3downnation.com/2022/01/06/edmonton-elks-rework-quarterback-nick-arbuckles-contract-for-2022-season/#:~:text=New%20deal%20pays%20him%20same,negotiation%20list%20QB%20Chad%20Kelly.

https://3downnation.com/2022/09/21/contract-details-edmonton-elks-pay-qb-taylor-cornelius-over-100000-to-sign-extension/#:~:text=General%20manager%20and%20head%20coach,gold's%20active%20roster%20on%20Jan.

So that if one looks at Corn contracts in total its not near what Elks paid Arbuckle or now Ford.

Anyway I'm sure you'll still be posting about Cornelius a decade from now. Carry on.

$238,500 was still too much for that scrub. The money they're giving Ford is fine and will draw fans out to watch. Something Cornhole never did.

I think the question was asked. If you aren't paying Ford, then who are you paying and how much?

 

[Drivesaitl]

$238,500 was still too much for that scrub. The money they're giving Ford is fine and will draw fans out to watch. Something Cornhole never did.

I think the question was asked. If you aren't paying Ford, then who are you paying and how much?

I'd already answered I would have MBT as starter or somebody like Vernon Adams who was available. People don't want to hear it but its a crucial season for the Elks to try to get fanbase traction back. It is a risk going with a starter with limited experience that has had some injury problems and has never been healthy for more than 5 games.

Heres the deal. In BC there is an attendance record of Rourke elevating attendance, putting bums in the seats. He's that good, and good enough to attract NFL attention. I don't put Ford in that category, and theres been no commensurate increase in attendance on games where it was announced Ford would be starting. Theres talk online supporting this deal, people saying they like it etc. But theres been a lot of talk about people going to games and growing interest for several years here and all the "new fans" never showed up in significant amounts. Maybe Ford will put bums in the seats. At this point its an unknown. The Elks attendance had cratered to20K average and thats even with the Stamps LD rematch factored in.

I get that the team has to spend money to make money and have good players on the field. Its not a given the fans show up in anycase. People are assuming that. Even during a winning streak this year there wasn't much of an effect.

 

[abootzky]

No, thanks for the answers. I wasn't questioning your take, I was just asking for more information.

I will question your take,that people didn't attend the college clash on account of the Elks sucking. The Elks were on a 5-1 heater going into the Sept 21 game against the Bombers. So that performance was certainly the reason the College clash didn't work. I just checked back and the tickets were 15 bucks. Practically giving them away.

Students! Campus Clash is back - Get your $15 ticket now - Edmonton Elks

CAMPUS CLASH IS BACK ON SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 21 AT COMMONWEALTH STADIUM! ENJOY A NIGHT OUT WITH FRIENDS AND CHEER ON THE ELKS IN OUR EXCLUSIVE STUDENT SECTIONS! YOUR $15 ELKS TICKET IS YOUR CHANCE TO WIN A TRIP TO AMSTERDAM DURING THE 2025 FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN DUTCH GRAND PRIX. WEAR YOUR SCHOOL...

www.goelks.com

You got me there. I didn't check to see which game was the one with the failed college night. I do remember showing up and being quite disappointed in the overall attendance for that Winnipeg game - given the EE's 5-1 heater that you mentioned. Those who stayed away were onto something given that game was the beginning of the end of the home team's playoff aspirations and eventually the interim Simon/Jackson regime.

 

[K1984]

I think that a factor in the poor attendance in the fall despite their stronger play at the time is multi faceted.

1 - when the team effectively eliminates themselves from contention early, people have already moved on by the fall. 5-1 in their last 6 doesn't matter when people aren't paying attention.

2 - Oilers camp starts and sucks all the air out of the local sports landscape. Elks could be 12-0 at that point and the start of Oiler camp would still lead the headlines. "We might maybe make the playoffs if we win this game and a bunch more" doesn't get on the front page.

If the team starts well when there is no hockey and no other sports in the summer then I think that there might be staying power as far as attention goes into the fall. When they go 0-5 every year, they're written off by 80% of fans until next year.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I'd already answered I would have MBT as starter or somebody like Vernon Adams who was available. People don't want to hear it but its a crucial season for the Elks to try to get fanbase traction back. It is a risk going with a starter with limited experience that has had some injury problems and has never been healthy for more than 5 games.

Heres the deal. In BC there is an attendance record of Rourke elevating attendance, putting bums in the seats. He's that good, and good enough to attract NFL attention. I don't put Ford in that category, and theres been no commensurate increase in attendance on games where it was announced Ford would be starting. Theres talk online supporting this deal, people saying they like it etc. But theres been a lot of talk about people going to games and growing interest for several years here and all the "new fans" never showed up in significant amounts. Maybe Ford will put bums in the seats. At this point its an unknown. The Elks attendance had cratered to20K average and thats even with the Stamps LD rematch factored in.

I get that the team has to spend money to make money and have good players on the field. It’s not a given the fans show up in anycase. People are assuming that. Even during a winning streak this year there wasn't much of an effect.

An important season but you want to move forward with an old and declining QB over ford. What about after this season when Ford is else where and our QB is pushing 40?

 

[bellagiobob]

$238,500 was still too much for that scrub. The money they're giving Ford is fine and will draw fans out to watch. Something Cornhole never did.

I think the question was asked. If you aren't paying Ford, then who are you paying and how much?

We ended up paying Corn 445,000 for his zero win performance in 2023, 335k in 2023 and his 100k that was guaranteed in 2024. I have a good feeling that Ford will get us at least one win while earning less money than that. Ford is also moving here full time in January, nice to see that commitment, been awhile since our starter was all in like he is.