Value of: Cernak to TOR

[Legion34]

Actually i believe Sandin will need protecting, this season will be his 3rd as pro

Rasmus Sandin Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
2018-19 Toronto Marlies AHL 44 6 22 28 16 -10 13
2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs 28 1 7 8 10 -7
2019-20 Toronto Marlies AHL 21 2 13 15 17 -2

Expansion Draft FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
First & Second Year Pros
All players who have accrued two or less professional seasons at the end of the 2020-21 season, as well as all unsigned draft choices appearing on the teams reserve list, will be exempt from the upcoming expansion draft.

his under 20 don’t count as pro unless I. The AHL. He would not have been allowed to play AHL if he wasn’t euro.
He slides. It’s confirmed

 

[joe dirte]

there is no cap room on tampa for matthews or nylander. therefore no match even if it is an overpayment.

Its really not the point. "They dont have the assets" doesnt apply here

 

[nuck]

ok maybe we are circling closer to a complete set of distinctions

per this, despite the FanSided article, Engvall would then be at risk?
at age 22, he played a full pro season, in AHL, on his NHL ELC in '18-19

Yes Engval needs to be protected. i suspect they would deal one of Kapanen, Johnsson or Kerfoot and expose players like Holl, Guathier and Engval

 

[cwede]

The wording from NHL.com is 2 years of “NHL” experience:

Seattle 2021 NHL Expansion Draft rules same as Golden Knights followed

thanks.
Looking at the Vegas list, though, there definitely are players with NO (or very minimal) NHL experience, who were vulnerable in Vegas draft
so @nuck mentioned consideration, of teenage pro seasons, may have impact here too
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-golden-knights-expansion-draft-protection-list-1.4166262

thanks all

 

[Boondock]

I see so offer sheet may be the best avenue. Which Dubas likely won’t do. The leafs are tight on the cap but once Ceci and Barrie come off the books that’s 7.25 mill free and if you trade AJ that’s 10.65 mill free. So the leafs aren’t in the worse situation, even if they let AJ go below market value

Not really an accurate breakdown of the Leafs cap for next year. The Leafs have $76.9 million and 17 players committed to the salary cap for next season. Most teams carry 23 players meaning the Leafs have $4.6 cap space to sign 4-5 players. This number already calculates the loss of Barrie and Ceci. If they move AJ and get no salary in return, they would have $8million in cap space, but they would need to sign an additional player to fill the AJ roster spot.

 

[Legion34]

Not really an accurate breakdown of the Leafs cap for next year. The Leafs have $76.9 million and 17 players committed to the salary cap for next season. Most teams carry 23 players meaning the Leafs have $4.6 cap space to sign 4-5 players. This number already calculates the loss of Barrie and Ceci. If they move AJ and get no salary in return, they would have $8million in cap space, but they would need to sign an additional player to fill the AJ roster spot.

leafs won’t carry 23 to start the year. They already confirmed that last year. They can do a 20’ man roster with emergency call ups if they are short, provided they make basically league min.

that’s why they signed a million AHL players on 1 way Deals for 700-800k last year.

 

[Boondock]

leafs won’t carry 23 to start the year. They already confirmed that last year. They can do a 20’ man roster with emergency call ups if they are short, provided they make basically league min.

that’s why they signed a million AHL players on 1 way Deals for 700-800k last year.

You can't play an entire season with a 20 player roster and emergency call ups. I could see 20 for opening night, but after that you need to have an extra body in the event of illness, injury (not long term). I understand the math of it, but its poor planning if that's how they are going to get around there cap issues.

 

[Legion34]

You can't play an entire season with a 20 player roster and emergency call ups. I could see 20 for opening night, but after that you need to have an extra body in the event of illness, injury (not long term). I understand the math of it, but its poor planning if that's how they are going to get around there cap issues.

not the full season. But cap space accrues. They just have to start like that. They planned to do it last year and were able to do it. Heck they even retained salary on lehner to get a 5th.

the rules changed since Calgary went short handed. A team can use unlimited emergency call
Ups so that they aren’t short. It was the plan and discussed at length last year.

I think this year they get to an 81 million 20 man roster and then let it accrue for 15 ish games. Heck I honestly think the schedule will be altered to do more “series type games” and they will be allowed expanded rosters like the bubble. But we will see

 

[Boondock]

not the full season. But cap space accrues. They just have to start like that. They planned to do it last year and were able to do it. Heck they even retained salary on lehner to get a 5th.

the rules changed since Calgary went short handed. A team can use unlimited emergency call
Ups so that they aren’t short. It was the plan and discussed at length last year.

I think this year they get to an 81 million 20 man roster and then let it accrue for 15 ish games. Heck I honestly think the schedule will be altered to do more “series type games” and they will be allowed expanded rosters like the bubble. But we will see

Playoff rosters are expanded every year, playoff have no cap, and with the "bubble" they had to be expanded further because of the quarantine time required for someone new entering the bubble. I can't see they carrying this forward, and if they do, it will still need to count against the cap. I can't see any way there are just random NHL players sitting in wait for a team that don't count against the cap.

 

[Legion34]

Playoff rosters are expanded every year, playoff have no cap, and with the "bubble" they had to be expanded further because of the quarantine time required for someone new entering the bubble. I can't see they carrying this forward, and if they do, it will still need to count against the cap. I can't see any way there are just random NHL players sitting in wait for a team that don't count against the cap.

And if the AHL doesn’t play? Juniors? NCAA?Then what? They all just sit out Until the pandemic is under control?

there is so much to figure out. No one knows how it’s going to go. But the juniors/AHL heck half the NHL can’t function without fans in the stands.

There will be much more flexibility then we originally thought. Teams will want their players to develop. Teams might play 3 in 3s due to a condensed season. Travel will be limited. I think all these lead to expanded rosters. But that’s my guess.

Either way. Last year the leafs made it pretty clear their strategy was 20 man with call
Ups.

 

[Leafs87]

Not really an accurate breakdown of the Leafs cap for next year. The Leafs have $76.9 million and 17 players committed to the salary cap for next season. Most teams carry 23 players meaning the Leafs have $4.6 cap space to sign 4-5 players. This number already calculates the loss of Barrie and Ceci. If they move AJ and get no salary in return, they would have $8million in cap space, but they would need to sign an additional player to fill the AJ roster spot.

AJ sport does not need to be replaced per say. He was out with injuries and he has been replaced by Engval making 1.25. Also Robertson is expected to take over 3rd line on an ELC and Engval going to the 4th. Those extra spots will all be filled with min salaries. Probably Spezza at league min too. We need ideally 2 RHD. Moving AJ and having 8 mill for those two should be okay.

 

[kenfury]

If you are looking for a good fit for Cernak that works for Tampa, Buffalo would be a Better fit. BUF sends a RHD (50% retained) for Cernak and Johnson. TB ships out 7M (5M in Johnson + 2M for Cernak) and takes back something around 2M. I'm not saying that would be the deal but that's the type of need that TB has.

 

[Boondock]

AJ sport does not need to be replaced per say. He was out with injuries and he has been replaced by Engval making 1.25. Also Robertson is expected to take over 3rd line on an ELC and Engval going to the 4th. Those extra spots will all be filled with min salaries. Probably Spezza at league min too. We need ideally 2 RHD. Moving AJ and having 8 mill for those two should be okay.

you still need to calculate the cap hit for the internal player that is replacing AJ and if it's league minimum that's cool, but it's still $700k against the cap that eats into that 8 million. If the Leafs actually go with a 20 player roster, they currently need to resign Mikheyev, Forward #2, Dermott (or other defender. Mikheyev will be about $2, AJ's replacement - Robertson $850k, League minimum forward $700k - That leaves $5.5 for a defensive add if you don't re-sign Dermott and roll with a 20 player roster.

 

[kabidjan18]

If they resign and extend Hyman, that could be a trade for Cernak.

 

[joe dirte]

You can't play an entire season with a 20 player roster and emergency call ups. I could see 20 for opening night, but after that you need to have an extra body in the event of illness, injury (not long term). I understand the math of it, but its poor planning if that's how they are going to get around there cap issues.

minimum active roster is 21, not 20. You have to have 21 players on the active roster under the CBA.

 

[Golden_Jet]

minimum active roster is 21, not 20. You have to have 21 players on the active roster under the CBA.

Unless it changed its 20.

 

[joe dirte]

Unless it changed its 20.

Hmm, just looked it up. I thought it was 21 to 23. You're right, my mistake. it's 20 to 23.

 

[duckpuck]

I didn't explain it properly. I meant salary back by means of an additional player. The Cernak replacement would probably be considered an upgrade. From Anaheim's perspective something like Manson and a prospect or pick for Cernak and Palat.

A trade like this sheds a good $4m for TB at the very least when all is said and done and brings in a more established defender for another couple seasons of their window of contention.

I think most ducks fans are open to trading Manson - possibly the team as well. This return seems a little light since I wouldn't expect the ducks to take a fairly hefty contract back in a deal for Manson. That being said, I like Cernak and think a deal centered on Manson/Cernak makes sense. I'm just not sure what other pieces make sense to balance value. I guess it depends on what others would offer for Manson.

What about a swap of Manson for Cernak with the ducks retaining a bit? Ducks could add a cheap LHD.

 

[belair]

I think most ducks fans are open to trading Manson - possibly the team as well. This return seems a little light since I wouldn't expect the ducks to take a fairly hefty contract back in a deal for Manson. That being said, I like Cernak and think a deal centered on Manson/Cernak makes sense. I'm just not sure what other pieces make sense to balance value. I guess it depends on what others would offer for Manson.

What about a swap of Manson for Cernak with the ducks retaining a bit? Ducks could add a cheap LHD.

I'm not a fan of either team so I'm not really the person to speak about need. What I'm saying is that Tampa's #1 priority this summer is to shed salary to ultimately pay their RFAs.

In regards to the last offer, Palat's contract may be hefty, but he's not exactly unworthy of it.

 

[duckpuck]

I'm not a fan of either team so I'm not really the person to speak about need. What I'm saying is that Tampa's #1 priority this summer is to shed salary to ultimately pay their RFAs.

In regards to the last offer, Palat's contract may be hefty, but he's not exactly unworthy of it.

$5.3M AAV for a player who has never scored more than 23 goals and projects as scoring around 40-50 points seems a little spendy. And that's on a high scoring TB team. He's also missed a fair number of games in the past. I'm not all that familiar with the player, so I could be wrong.

Also, I just realized Palat has a NTC. I wonder if he would waive?

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

$5.3M AAV for a player who has never scored more than 23 goals and projects as scoring around 40-50 points seems a little spendy. And that's on a high scoring TB team. He's also missed a fair number of games in the past. I'm not all that familiar with the player, so I could be wrong.

Also, I just realized Palat has a NTC. I wonder if he would waive?

Palat is a good player, but I'd be concerned he'd be wasted on Anaheim if you don't expect to make the playoffs while he's under contract. Then again, maybe you shop him in his last year at the trade deadline...