Value of: Cernak to TOR

[duckpuck]

elc players that can contribute in 20-21, not have to be protected, and save cap space. Cap space is the priority and I don't see Cernak making over 3m.

The ducks might be a match. Zegras would not be on the table (probably not Comtois either) but they have some cheap NHL talent/prospects in the system. Any interest in Boston's late round 2020 first round pick and a prospect like Jones or Larsson? Maybe Heinen if they like him?

Someone of similar age to replace Cernak and for that team to take one of Palat, Killorn or Tyler Johnson's entire contract, sending no salary back the other way.

Not many teams can take 7-9M in salary (Cernak plus one of the other guys) and not send any back. And if they do, they are not sending back a cheap NHL ready replacement for Cernak. I could see the ducks taking Palat as part of a deal - the other two contracts have too much term.

 

[Leaf Fans]

A second round pick? Did they re sign Clifford?

Even if they had, the second rounder is in 2021.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

I believe Sandin doesn't have to be kept in ED so it starts with him and add on.

I wouldn’t even move Nylander or Rielly for Cenerak let alone Sandin who is the future of the leafs Dline.

 

[Petrus]

The Leafs don’t have the assets to get this guy.

TB will likely want prospects and / cap relief.

If TB wants propects, Toronto has Sandin, Robertson and Liljegren. Further to that Toronto has all of of the 2021 draft picks.Would Tampa Bay be interested in any of those?

That being said, Toronto cannot make this deal without clearing cap space first.

Genuinely curious, Is Toronto your 2nd fave team after VanCity?

 

[Flyer lurker]

The reality is Cernak is going nowhere for bos pick or 2021 tml pick or 3.5 million mid 6 forwards off knee injuries etc. Its possible he has to be part of a trade to dump salary cap but that is pretty far down the list. And if TML fan replies you don't trade quality elc players in frozen cap land, I would agree .

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Saying the leafs don’t have that is inaccurate. We do in Nick Robertson. Saying we won’t give it up, yes that’s true as we also need ELC players who can contribute.

Cernak is almost exactly what we need. What’s his draft pick value?

Well he was a 2nd round pick and he’s outperformed that so I doubt a 2nd rounder would get it done for Tampa. They would probably prefer to lose him to an offer sheet because the compensation to pry him away would be higher.

Toronto and Tampa are both in the same boat in many ways.

1. Tight against the cap and in need of players on ELC deals that can contribute

2. Strong on LHD but not deep on RHD

3. Lots of offensive talent and if anything they need to make space by clearing out a secondary forward or two

4. Division rivals who are competitive at the same time

You add all of that up and I don’t see there being a great fit as trade partners

 

[joe dirte]

The Leafs don’t have the assets to get this guy.

You dont think auston matthews returns cernak?

How about nylander?

 

[Fatass]

You dont think auston matthews returns cernak?

How about nylander?

Assets that make sense to both teams. AM is a top five player in the league, and TBay doesn’t need Nylander.

 

[Leafs87]

Well he was a 2nd round pick and he’s outperformed that so I doubt a 2nd rounder would get it done for Tampa. They would probably prefer to lose him to an offer sheet because the compensation to pry him away would be higher.

Toronto and Tampa are both in the same boat in many ways.

1. Tight against the cap and in need of players on ELC deals that can contribute

2. Strong on LHD but not deep on RHD

3. Lots of offensive talent and if anything they need to make space by clearing out a secondary forward or two

4. Division rivals who are competitive at the same time

You add all of that up and I don’t see there being a great fit as trade partners

I see so offer sheet may be the best avenue. Which Dubas likely won’t do. The leafs are tight on the cap but once Ceci and Barrie come off the books that’s 7.25 mill free and if you trade AJ that’s 10.65 mill free. So the leafs aren’t in the worse situation, even if they let AJ go below market value

 

[joe dirte]

Assets that make sense to both teams. AM is a top five player in the league, and TBay doesn’t need Nylander.

The idea that they dont have the assets for a player like cernak is laughable. Every team in the league has the assets. Thats where you go so dreadfully wrong with your posts.

Tampa and toronto are probably not good trade partners because they are dealing with similar issues.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I see so offer sheet may be the best avenue. Which Dubas likely won’t do. The leafs are tight on the cap but once Ceci and Barrie come off the books that’s 7.25 mill free and if you trade AJ that’s 10.65 mill free. So the leafs aren’t in the worse situation, even if they let AJ go below market value

And Muzzin gets 1.6m raise and Campbell 1m raise.
76.9m 17 players signed Toronto Maple Leafs - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
If Leafs want to trade one 3m player be it Kerfoot or AJ they make cap. Now if they add Gudas they means another players probably goes.

 

[cwede]

I believe Sandin doesn't have to be kept in ED so it starts with him and add on.

Add on to Sandin? How good is this Cernak guy?

Actually i believe Sandin will need protecting, this season will be his 3rd as pro

Rasmus Sandin Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
2018-19 Toronto Marlies AHL 44 6 22 28 16 -10 13
2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs 28 1 7 8 10 -7
2019-20 Toronto Marlies AHL 21 2 13 15 17 -2

Expansion Draft FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
First & Second Year Pros
All players who have accrued two or less professional seasons at the end of the 2020-21 season, as well as all unsigned draft choices appearing on the teams reserve list, will be exempt from the upcoming expansion draft.

 

[joe dirte]

I believe Sandin doesn't have to be kept in ED so it starts with him and add on.

Lol.

The leafs wouldnt trade him 1 for 1.

Chances they trade him at all are near zero.

 

[Fatass]

The idea that they dont have the assets for a player like cernak is laughable. Every team in the league has the assets. Thats where you go so dreadfully wrong with your posts.

Tampa and toronto are probably not good trade partners because they are dealing with similar issues.

How is the concept wrong, when you agree with it in your statement the they “are probably not good trade partners”?
No, the Lightening don’t want what the Leafs would offer, because the Leaf’s don’t have the right assets.

 

[joe dirte]

considering we're in the same division i dont think wed make such a deal

Particularly two teams in the same division with similar cap issues and the same needs.

 

[Fatass]

And Muzzin gets 1.6m raise and Campbell 1m raise.
76.9m 17 players signed Toronto Maple Leafs - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
If Leafs want to trade one 3m player be it Kerfoot or AJ they make cap. Now if they add Gudas they means another players probably goes.

I thought Dubas recently said the Leafs don’t have a cap problem, so adding Cernak, or Gudas, or whomever shouldn’t be an issue - with the cap?

 

[joe dirte]

How is the concept wrong, when you agree with it in your statement the they “are probably not good trade partners”?
No, the Lightening don’t want what the Leafs would offer, because the Leaf’s don’t have the right assets.

Lol. They have the assets. They even have the right assets, in draft picks, if they want.

You dont seem to get it. "They dont have the assets" and "theyre not good trade partners" are very different.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Actually i believe Sandin will need protecting, this season will be his 3rd as pro

Rasmus Sandin Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
2018-19 Toronto Marlies AHL 44 6 22 28 16 -10 13
2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs 28 1 7 8 10 -7
2019-20 Toronto Marlies AHL 21 2 13 15 17 -2

Expansion Draft FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
First & Second Year Pros
All players who have accrued two or less professional seasons at the end of the 2020-21 season, as well as all unsigned draft choices appearing on the teams reserve list, will be exempt from the upcoming expansion draft.

Players Ineligible to Be Drafted
Five notable Leafs who could be big components of their 2020-21 roster are all ineligible to be drafted: Rasmus Sandin, Timothy Liljegren, Nick Robertson, Ilya Mikheyev, and Pierre Engvall. All five players will be either in their first or second year of NHL experience, thus rendering them ineligible to be taken in the expansion draft.
Conversely, Leaf captain John Tavares has a no-move clause in his contract, therefore forcing Toronto to protect him the draft. The Toronto Maple Leafs and the 2021 Seattle Expansion Draft

 

[belair]

The ducks might be a match. Zegras would not be on the table (probably not Comtois either) but they have some cheap NHL talent/prospects in the system. Any interest in Boston's late round 2020 first round pick and a prospect like Jones or Larsson? Maybe Heinen if they like him?



Not many teams can take 7-9M in salary (Cernak plus one of the other guys) and not send any back. And if they do, they are not sending back a cheap NHL ready replacement for Cernak. I could see the ducks taking Palat as part of a deal - the other two contracts have too much term.

I didn't explain it properly. I meant salary back by means of an additional player. The Cernak replacement would probably be considered an upgrade. From Anaheim's perspective something like Manson and a prospect or pick for Cernak and Palat.

A trade like this sheds a good $4m for TB at the very least when all is said and done and brings in a more established defender for another couple seasons of their window of contention.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I thought Dubas recently said the Leafs don’t have a cap problem, so adding Cernak, or Gudas, or whomever shouldn’t be an issue - with the cap?

Hockey gm's blowing smoke. There is a stunner.

 

[nuck]

Actually i believe Sandin will need protecting, this season will be his 3rd as pro

Rasmus Sandin Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
2018-19 Toronto Marlies AHL 44 6 22 28 16 -10 13
2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs 28 1 7 8 10 -7
2019-20 Toronto Marlies AHL 21 2 13 15 17 -2

Expansion Draft FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
First & Second Year Pros
All players who have accrued two or less professional seasons at the end of the 2020-21 season, as well as all unsigned draft choices appearing on the teams reserve list, will be exempt from the upcoming expansion draft.

Sandin and Lijegren are exempt, same as Nylander in the Vegas draft. Seasons before a player turns 20, if they do not play more than 9 NHL games, a player's ELC "slides" and does not earn a year of service time towards UFA status.

 

[cwede]

Players Ineligible to Be Drafted
Five notable Leafs who could be big components of their 2020-21 roster are all ineligible to be drafted: Rasmus Sandin, Timothy Liljegren, Nick Robertson, Ilya Mikheyev, and Pierre Engvall. All five players will be either in their first or second year of NHL experience, thus rendering them ineligible to be taken in the expansion draft.
Conversely, Leaf captain John Tavares has a no-move clause in his contract, therefore forcing Toronto to protect him the draft. The Toronto Maple Leafs and the 2021 Seattle Expansion Draft

thanks, that is curious to me,
and given this from CapFriendly, I am still a bit skeptical of its accuracy,
"First & Second Year Pros: All players who have accrued two or less professional seasons at the end of the 2020-21 season, as well as all unsigned draft choices appearing on the teams reserve list, will be exempt from the upcoming expansion draft."
Expansion Draft FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

this would seem to put all of Sundin, Engvall AND Liljegren at risk ...

that text does not discriminate whether the years on the NHL contract were spent in NHL or minors

 

[TBF1972]

You dont think auston matthews returns cernak?

How about nylander?

there is no cap room on tampa for matthews or nylander. therefore no match even if it is an overpayment.

 

[Petrus]

thanks, that is curious to me,
and given this from CapFriendly, I am still a bit skeptical of its accuracy,
"First & Second Year Pros: All players who have accrued two or less professional seasons at the end of the 2020-21 season, as well as all unsigned draft choices appearing on the teams reserve list, will be exempt from the upcoming expansion draft."
Expansion Draft FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

this would seem to put all of Sundin, Engvall AND Liljegren at risk ...

that text does not discriminate whether the years on the NHL contract were spent in NHL or minors

The wording from NHL.com is 2 years of “NHL” experience:

Seattle 2021 NHL Expansion Draft rules same as Golden Knights followed

 

[cwede]

Sandin and Lijegren are exempt, same as Nylander in the Vegas draft. Seasons before a player turns 20, if they do not play more than 9 NHL games, a player's ELC "slides" and does not earn a year of service time towards UFA status.

ok maybe we are circling closer to a complete set of distinctions

per this, despite the FanSided article, Engvall would then be at risk?
at age 22, he played a full pro season, in AHL, on his NHL ELC in '18-19