Confirmed with Link: CDH and Saarela to CHI for Forsling and Anton Forsberg

[zman77]

Don Waddell will be making some big moves this week.
Maybe an offer sheet for Johnsson?

 

[ONO94]

I’m not following. Are you suggesting that the Canes could have gotten a 1st and 3rd for de Hann, who is having shoulder surgery for the 2nd straight season and won’t be ready to start the season? If that is what you are saying, then I disagree with your valuation.



Maybe they wanted to control where he went (ie, not in the Metro) .

No, I don't think they could have gotten a first an a third for de Haan by himself. My issue is with the statement that we should think of this move as part of the marleau trade. That first round pick means nothing for this move. Thinking of it that way is nothing more than justification for a move that doesn't make sense. It wasn't part of the trade and since de Haan isn't currently being paid in the odd season, the need to rush isn't imperative. I do think de Haan is worth a 3rd and I don't think moving him west at that price would be all that difficult

 

[Navin R Slavin]

And that’s fine and dandy, and I’m all for nabbing as many of those as we can, but I’m kind of tired of being excited for the future. I’d much rather be excited for the present, and this offseason has made that kind of difficult.

How about being excited for the recent past, in which we made it to the ECF in our first full rebuilding year *and* won our first ever Calder Cup, brought to you by the exact same people who are making these deals right now?

 

[bleedgreen]

What's your take on forsling?

Great skater, you’ll like that part about him. He looked like he was for sure going to be part of their future but then stalled. A bad look when they were so desperate for D. Mobile and skilled, a work in progress in his own end. I would’ve placed him over Bean a year ago pretty easily, but with Bean’s growth they’re probably similar now with Forsling having more NHL experience.

I would’ve liked getting him and giving him a fresh start if it hadn’t cost us DeHaan. Chicago under Q made a mess of some dmen, there’s a chance this guy can still turn out. You’d think someone isn’t staying because Fleury is in competition with this guy too. Forsling is way more mobile. One of the three is likely to be trade bait.

I haven’t seen the goalie much. He didn’t impress when I did.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I do think de Haan is worth a 3rd and I don't think moving him west at that price would be all that difficult

Fair enough. Maybe the Canes like the pieces that they got back more than a 3rd? Can’t say.

 

[vorbis]

Only if his name is Marchessault.



The de Haan signing did come out of nowhere last season, and makes a *ton* of sense if Faulk was gone. It's fairly obvious that the reason we traded for Hamilton was to *replace* Faulk, and when Faulk didn't go, it made less sense. Maybe we showed interest in de Haan on the same contingency (that Faulk was going to get traded). It's starting to feel that we did a lot of things last summer based on the expectation that Faulk would get moved, only to have to "undo" some of them now that he's still around.

to me, cutting bait so obviously on 26 year old Skinner only to hang onto 26 year old Faulk all year was perplexing at first (if you were to look at them both as big picture roster decisions ahead of contract talks), but it helped me realize over the past year how the org 1) recognizes 2) assesses and 3) prioritizes value when it comes to contracts vs role on team.

the team simply valued what Faulk had to offer to the extent that they would carry an extra top 4 contract for a year, rather than accept less than x value of return. and both moves (keeping Faulk, moving Skinner) panned out IMO.

now we'll see what they do with Faulk. I imagine he'll go for trade or move protection of some sort, and I wonder if that's the sort of thing they'll put their foot down about.

 

[bleedgreen]

I'd rather pencil Bean into our top four in 2020-21 than de Haan.

That’s just dumb. That doesn’t even make sense.

And if this is more nonsense about his shoulders, a team that desperately needs defenseman and will play him a ton just traded for three years of his contract. They are obviously not concerned about the shoulder. There’s no way they didn’t do the homework on that either.

 

[My Special Purpose]

How about being excited for the recent past, in which we made it to the ECF in our first full rebuilding year *and* won our first ever Calder Cup, brought to you by the exact same people who are making these deals right now?

Dude, that was *last* month. Oh wait, no it wasn't.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

This off-season has barely begun. And I’d much rather be excited for the present AND the future.

You’re right, this offseason has barely begun. And so far we’ve lost both our goalies from last year and a defenseman that spent most of the season in our Top 4. We’ve acquired a player that we expect to be buying out. And negotiations with our free agents aren’t (apparently) going well. But hey, we got a 1st!

So yeah, sorry if I’m not super hyped about the present at the moment. Apologies if that’s too negative for you.

Look, I realize things will change over the offseason. And hopefully the team will figure it out. But for now, it sucks. I hate the way things have played out thus far, especially after the success of last year.

 

[My Special Purpose]

That’s just dumb. That doesn’t even make sense.

And if this is more nonsense about his shoulders, a team that desperately needs defenseman and will play him a ton just traded for three years of his contract. They are obviously not concerned about the shoulder. There’s no way they didn’t do the homework on that either.

And yet, I *still* would. Jake Bean is good. A pairing with him and Pesce could be fun to watch for many years. I'm trying to give RF some credit here and you don't want it.

 

[My Special Purpose]

You’re right, this offseason has barely begun. And so far we’ve lost both our goalies from last year and a defenseman that spent most of the season in our Top 4. We’ve acquired a player that we expect to be buying out. And negotiations with our free agents aren’t (apparently) going well. But hey, we got a 1st!

So yeah, sorry if I’m not super hyped about the present at the moment. Apologies if that’s too negative for you.

Look, I realize things will change over the offseason. And hopefully the team will figure it out. But for now, it sucks. I hate the way things have played out thus far, especially after the success of last year.

But the question remains, why can't you find one ounce of trust for the guys who brought last season to you? Why can't they get the benefit of the doubt even one time? Why is it constant negativity?

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

If the Preds are about to move forward with Fabbro is place of Subban in their Top 4, the Canes can move forward with Bean, Fleury or Forlsing on the 3rd pairing.

Aho's extension has consequences. Svechnikov's extension will have consequences 2 years from now. ELCs don't last forever.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

This is a *massive* overreaction. WE TRADED CALVIN FREAKIN' DE HAAN. How on earth does that signal kicking off another rebuild?

I feel like you intentionally misinterpreted my post here. I never said trading DeHann signals a rebuild. I said that, unless the plan is to kick off a rebuild, the focus should be trying to acquire players that help now instead of picks and prospects that may or may not help in the future.

We had 10 picks in the past draft. Certainly some of them could have been leveraged to help our newly emerged goaltending situation, or some scoring help, or even a new PP option. Instead, we kept them all and acquired more. Now we’re trading a top 4 defenseman for essentially a 1st round pick (if we’re going with that interpretation).

Now, none of that was necessarily wrong to do. More picks, more prospects are great. But they’re moves you don’t typically see from teams wanting to compete for the Cup. Rather, they’re moves you see from teams looking to rebuild.

But hey, maybe we can act like the New England Patriots are an apt comparison to the Carolina Hurricanes again and that’ll make it all better.

 

[Ole Gil]

DeHaan was going to be a 3rd pair dman for 4.5m for 3 more years coming off another shoulder thing.

I definitely see why they would want to move on from him even though he was really good for the Canes. The return was no bueno, but not the best time to get value for him being injured and teams up against cap days before free agency opens.

I wonder if this may be related to that Washington prospect that Sara Civ tweeted about a few days ago.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

You’re right, this offseason has barely begun. And so far we’ve lost both our goalies from last year

Not yet we haven’t. Both of them were never going to be back in the first place.

and a defenseman that spent most of the season in our Top 4.

Most? I thought once Dougie got healthy and they moved Pesce to the left side, CDH was with TVR. Wasn’t that right around New Years?

We’ve acquired a player that we expect to be buying out.

And a 1st round pick for doing so.

And negotiations with our free agents aren’t (apparently) going well.

just like almost every other team? Because the cap was just released days ago? Did I miss the Marner, Point, Connor, Laine, Boeser, Rantanen signings?

But hey, we got a 1st!

So yeah, sorry if I’m not super hyped about the present at the moment. Apologies if that’s too negative for you.

Look, I realize things will change over the offseason. And hopefully the team will figure it out. But for now, it sucks. I hate the way things have played out thus far, especially after the success of last year.

Then how about waiting until the changes occur to assess the whole offseason rather than overreacting to every single move, rumor, or tweet? unless of course you enjoy the negativity, and if so, have at it.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Dundon is doing unconventional things. More at 11.

Either get on board or GTFO

 

[bleedgreen]

And yet, I *still* would. Jake Bean is good. A pairing with him and Pesce could be fun to watch for many years. I'm trying to give RF some credit here and you don't want it.

I like Bean fine, I think he’s a very good prospect. I’ve been watching you talk about DeHaan for awhile and I’m generally baffled by your take on him. There were many games were DeHaan was our best defender imo. Slavin didn’t have his best year being forced to play with Dougie and Pesce didn’t really take off till the back half. Faulk was up and down. DeHaan busted his ass every night and was a glue guy. He was one of the best ufa signings we’ve ever had sadly.

If this means Faulk is staying and Pesce moves to the left....and is happy then that’s something.

I just think we’re a better team with DeHaan than without. Bean is a maybe to be ready to be eased in. It was only one game but he looked lost defensively up here, that’s going to be an adjustment.

I also don’t think we got much back here. I like Forsling fine but our goalie situation really hasn’t improved other than we have a warm body there now. Maybe we’re the place he comes into his own but my expectations aren’t very high there.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

But the question remains, why can't you find one ounce of trust for the guys who brought last season to you? Why can't they get the benefit of the doubt even one time? Why is it constant negativity?

I trust Brindamour. The other two, not so much. Waddell’s been very hit or miss with his trades, and I’m still not happy with how he got the job. And Dundon utilizes doublespeak too often for me to really get a handle on him. And obviously, with his history, it’s hard to take anything he says at face value.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Most? I thought once Dougie got healthy and they moved Pesce to the left side, CDH was with TVR. Wasn’t that right around New Years?

I could be misremembering things, but I thought the pairings for most of the year were trying to force Slavin and Hamilton as a pairing (to varied success), having Faulk and DeHann as the 2nd, and Pesce and TVR as the 3rd

That changed due to DeHann’s injury in the playoffs, but it may have happened sooner? My memory’s a little wonky, so you’ll have to tell me.

 

[bleedgreen]

I could be misremembering things, but I thought the pairings for most of the year were trying to force Slavin and Hamilton as a pairing (to varied success), having Faulk and DeHann as the 2nd, and Pesce and TVR as the 3rd

That changed due to DeHann’s injury in the playoffs, but it may have happened sooner? My memory’s a little wonky, so you’ll have to tell me.

That’s how I remember the first half of the year but at some point during the run Faulk and Pesce played together for awhile and it went well. For Pesce especially. They did some juggling in the playoffs too.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I feel like you intentionally misinterpreted my post here. I never said trading DeHann signals a rebuild. I said that, unless the plan is to kick off a rebuild, the focus should be trying to acquire players that help now instead of picks and prospects that may or may not help in the future.

We had 10 picks in the past draft. Certainly some of them could have been leveraged to help our newly emerged goaltending situation, or some scoring help, or even a new PP option. Instead, we kept them all and acquired more. Now we’re trading a top 4 defenseman for essentially a 1st round pick (if we’re going with that interpretation).

Now, none of that was necessarily wrong to do. More picks, more prospects are great. But they’re moves you don’t typically see from teams wanting to compete for the Cup. Rather, they’re moves you see from teams looking to rebuild.

But hey, maybe we can act like the New England Patriots are an apt comparison to the Carolina Hurricanes again and that’ll make it all better.

I like Bean fine, I think he’s a very good prospect. I’ve been watching you talk about DeHaan for awhile and I’m generally baffled by your take on him. There were many games were DeHaan was our best defender imo. Slavin didn’t have his best year being forced to play with Dougie and Pesce didn’t really take off till the back half. Faulk was up and down. DeHaan busted his ass every night and was a glue guy. He was one of the best ufa signings we’ve ever had sadly.

If this means Faulk is staying and Pesce moves to the left....and is happy then that’s something.

I just think we’re a better team with DeHaan than without. Bean is a maybe to be ready to be eased in. It was only one game but he looked lost defensively up here, that’s going to be an adjustment.

I honestly think Dundon is trying, and I'm willing to bet he's frustrated with the pace of making deals in the NHL. But while frustrated, he's managed *not* to overspend on lesser players who would likely not move the needle as much as he'd like. I'm frustrated, too. I really wish we didn't make 12 picks in the draft. I'd have liked to have seen a trade for an established center or a No. 1 goalie. But in the absence of those deals, the best course of action is to be ready when those rare opportunities present themselves.

If we do sign Duchene, that's great. We were prepared with cash and cap space. If he signs in Nashville, we'll be prepared with prospects/picks/cap space to trade for Kyle Turris. Or if he signs elsewhere, we'll be ready to scoop somebody up. Plus, there are still cap situations around the league that will need to get solved. And we'll be ready to help. We still may not get exactly what we want, but at least we'll be in the discussions and won't be hamstrung by one issue or another like most teams in the league. We have so much that everybody wants. At some point, that will pay off for us, like it did with Teravainen.

As for de Haan, I don't dislike the guy, obviously. He's a great guy and a great teammate. But the signing seemed weird to me from Day 1 and I just didn't see a ton of value to another d-man when we already had five we could count on. His signing didn't add a ton of value to me. And as for the "many games when he was our best defender stuff," I just think that's revisionist history. We have Jaccob Slavin and Brett Pesce on this team, along with Dougie Hamilton and Justin Faulk. Calvin de Haan was *never* our best defenseman. Either he or Faulk really *had* to go.

I think we're a better team with de Haan than without, as well, but there's literally no value there. He simply doesn't move the needle $4.55 million worth playing on our bottom pairing. Bean can do that for $800k and be ready for a bigger role if Faulk leaves next summer.

If we had moved Faulk last summer, I'd be totally against trading de Haan. But as it is, somebody had to go.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

You guys I think will like Forsling. He has talent just needs consistency and fresh start likely does him good

Forsberg on other hand is trash. Gives up goals that Leighton would be laughing about and the goals he gives up are back breaking and seemed to sap life out of team in front of him

He had chance to prove himself with Hawks and fell apart to point we were cheering on an AHL journeyman who was outplaying him until his luck ran out. Forsberg faltering when Crawford went down was turning point of 17-18 season. We were in playoff spot when Crawford went out with injury and Forsbergs play took team out of playoff picture

 

[bleedgreen]

I assume we’re keeping Faulk now. I also assume Pesce is a LD. If they move Faulk now I’d be pretty confused.

Also seems like we’re not using a RD to get ourselves a big forward now?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

DeHaan busted his ass every night and was a glue guy. He was one of the best ufa signings we’ve ever had sadly.

If this means Faulk is staying and Pesce moves to the left....and is happy then that’s something.

I just think we’re a better team with DeHaan than without. Bean is a maybe to be ready to be eased in. It was only one game but he looked lost defensively up here, that’s going to be an adjustment.

I also don’t think we got much back here. I like Forsling fine but our goalie situation really hasn’t improved other than we have a warm body there now. Maybe we’re the place he comes into his own but my expectations aren’t very high there.

No doubt de Hann was steady and stabilizing back there. I agree we are better with him than without, but 1) we likely weren’t going to have him for the first month or two, and 2) it depends on what other moves are made because of this move.

I think we didn’t get more back for him because of the injuries. He won’t be ready to start the season, and although he’s expected to recover, shoulder surgery in back to back seasons has to be concerning.

Good gamble for Chicago because if he stays healthy, he’ll help them. If not, they aren’t out much.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I could be misremembering things, but I thought the pairings for most of the year were trying to force Slavin and Hamilton as a pairing (to varied success), having Faulk and DeHann as the 2nd, and Pesce and TVR as the 3rd

That changed due to DeHann’s injury in the playoffs, but it may have happened sooner? My memory’s a little wonky, so you’ll have to tell me.

I’m in s place with no internet and limited cell until after the 4th so can try to look it up after that.