CBJ Training Camp Thread

[cbjthrowaway]

Can only carry 23 at a time. So who would you send down instead?

if mateychuk and/or dumais are good enough to earn spots at this point, you can live with the risk (not certainty) of losing a fringe guy on waivers who 1) was less impressive in camp and 2) doesn't have the same future upside, i.e. a bemstrom/foudy/olivier type. or, if ownership was bold enough, a roslovic or gudbranson.

 

[stevo61]

if mateychuk and/or dumais are good enough to earn spots at this point, you can live with the risk (not certainty) of losing a fringe guy on waivers who 1) was less impressive in camp and 2) doesn't have the same future upside, i.e. a bemstrom/foudy/olivier type. or, if ownership was bold enough, a roslovic or gudbranson.

You need those bodies when you have to send guys like those 2 back to juniors. I think Mateychuk has been good enough to earn a look but with the amount of bodies there is no point keeping him for long. Dumais has been fine but not as impactful as Mateychuk but hes basically in the same numbers game

 

[majormajor]

if mateychuk and/or dumais are good enough to earn spots at this point, you can live with the risk (not certainty) of losing a fringe guy on waivers who 1) was less impressive in camp and 2) doesn't have the same future upside, i.e. a bemstrom/foudy/olivier type. or, if ownership was bold enough, a roslovic or gudbranson.

You've got to have a terminal youth bias if you think Dumais is anywhere near as good as Bemstrom right now. Dumais hasn't looked NHL ready to me. His camp hasn't been more impressive than barely anyone.

Mateychuk does look ready and I'd love to move Bean out to make room for him but there's also no hurry, Mateychuk still has a lot of unfinished business in the WHL, at the WJC, and hopefully a Memorial Cup run.

 

[DarkandStormy]

You've got to have a terminal youth bias if you think Dumais is anywhere near as good as Bemstrom right now. Dumais hasn't looked NHL ready to me. His camp hasn't been more impressive than barely anyone.

Mateychuk does look ready and I'd love to move Bean out to make room for him but there's also no hurry, Mateychuk still has a lot of unfinished business in the WHL, at the WJC, and hopefully a Memorial Cup run.

Bemstrom does this every preseason...then he's a ghost in the regular season.

 

[majormajor]

Bemstrom does this every preseason...then he's a ghost in the regular season.

You might be thinking of Chinakhov who scored 6 goals last pre-season, tops in the league. Bemstrom didn't do anything and if I remember correctly people were super disappointed in him last camp.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[stevo61]

You might be thinking of Chinakhov who scored 6 goals last pre-season, tops in the league. Bemstrom didn't do anything and if I remember correctly people were super disappointed in him last camp.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Probably remembering wrong from the year before where Bemstrom too was almost a goal per game. 4 in 5 games along with an assist. I dont remember him being as engaging on the forecheck or going to the front of the net though

 

[majormajor]

Probably remembering wrong from the year before where Bemstrom too was almost a goal per game. 4 in 5 games along with an assist. I dont remember him being as engaging on the forecheck or going to the front of the net though

That's a good catch, but I'm not sure if it matters. If a guy scores 1.5 points per game in the A, leads your team in pre-season scoring, and plays a very responsible two-way game, then he should make the team. Being 24 or 25 years old doesn't make him too old to be able to take a step, some guys like Marchessault or Danforth take extra years to reach their peak. If he disappears in the regular season then deal with that then, for now he's made the team.

I really don't have big expectations for Bemstrom but none of the other marginal guys are at his level right now.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

You need those bodies when you have to send guys like those 2 back to juniors.

that's assuming that those guys would even get claimed, though, which is unlikely.

let's say they put olivier/bemstrom on waivers to get mateychuk a roster spot (and send blankenburg down + carry 8 defensemen). even if olivier/bemstrom gets claimed (unlikely), you would still have all of these guys already in the AHL:

• voronkov, chinakhov, sillinger, mckown, dunne, meyer, tfw

i'd argue that the first three names there are a straight-up upgrade over olivier/bemstrom anyway. the guy they'd be sending down would essentially be their 14th forward anyway, so even if there's a drop-off (i'd argue that the drop-off would be minor at worst) it's in such a small role that it won't move the needle either way.

and, again, that's if there's a waiver claim, which as far as i can tell hasn't happened to a CBJ camp cut in at least 10 years (that's as far back as i looked, so it's possible that they've never had a guy claimed as a camp cut).

iirc the last guy the jackets put on waivers who got claimed was andrew bodnarchuk back in like 2015, and he was claimed because colorado(?) had a million injuries on the blueline and it was the middle of the season.

so, the short answer is: you'd probably still have that guy, if you ended up needing to send mateychuk back to junior.

You've got to have a terminal youth bias if you think Dumais is anywhere near as good as Bemstrom right now. Dumais hasn't looked NHL ready to me. His camp hasn't been more impressive than barely anyone.

Mateychuk does look ready and I'd love to move Bean out to make room for him but there's also no hurry, Mateychuk still has a lot of unfinished business in the WHL, at the WJC, and hopefully a Memorial Cup run.

i wasn't specifically saying that dumais has earned a spot, just saying if the coaching staff believes that he's ready, you can live with the small chance of losing your 14th forward to waivers given how much other depth they have.

given the cap situations out there, i actually think jake bean would be a really good bet to make it through waivers, and the marginal risk of losing him to a waiver claim is an acceptable risk to take if they think mateychuk can take that spot and run with it.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Dumais isn’t ready for the NHL now. Ideally he could develop in the AHL and maybe get games in the last quarter of the year depending on his play, but the OHL rules block that.

Mateychuk is much closer but again his ideal path would be the AHL this year. Again, those OHL rules…..here’s hoping more young guys continue us to choose college and the USHL to force an OHL rule change

 

[stevo61]

Dumais isn’t ready for the NHL now. Ideally he could develop in the AHL and maybe get games in the last quarter of the year depending on his play, but the OHL rules block that.

Mateychuk is much closer but again his ideal path would be the AHL this year. Again, those OHL rules…..here’s hoping more young guys continue us to choose college and the USHL to force an OHL rule change

The CHL keeps pumping NHLers out and I think the current deal goes until 2029 if I remember correctly so I wouldnt expect anything to change

 

[MoeBartoli]

The CHL keeps pumping NHLers out and I think the current deal goes until 2029 if I remember correctly so I wouldnt expect anything to change

Probably correct…..though more guys are taking the college and USHL route. Until the last 5-10 years who would have expected either to be as significant draft sources.

 

[stevo61]

Probably correct…..though more guys are taking the college and USHL route. Until the last 5-10 years who would have expected either to be as significant draft sources.

Im curious how much more popular its actually become. Covid may have started a change but it feels like its been big name guys like Fantilli doing it so it gets more attention than sheer volume of players

I suppose my comment is geared more to Canadian's but I guess there is potential for more top guys from different countries going the NCAA route than before. I dont know that it would be a drastic change though

 

[tunnelvision]

Mateychuk is much closer but again his ideal path would be the AHL this year.

That seems to be the opinion of majority but I'm not sure if I agree. It could be better for his defensive development because of higher competition and coaching but there are other things to consider:

1) Cleveland already has Jiricek, Ceulemans and Svozil down there to compete for top D minutes, if Mateychuk joined that group someone would be playing less than what would ideal for their development.
2) Today's game showed Mateychuk needs to continue working on stickhandling, and getting shots off quicker and make them more accurate. Smart and aggressive reads got him a plenty of chances, just couldn't bury any of them. In MJ he will have a key offensive role with Yager and Firkus, I think in the end it's a better environment to get more reps for these technical skills, as long as he remembers to shoot instead of overpassing like last year.

 

[stevo61]

That seems to be the opinion of majority but I'm not sure if I agree. It could be better for his defensive development because of higher competition and coaching but there are other things to consider:

1) Cleveland already has Jiricek, Ceulemans and Svozil down there to compete for top D minutes, if Mateychuk joined that group someone would be playing less than what would ideal for their development.
2) Today's game showed Mateychuk needs to continue working on stickhandling, and getting shots off quicker and make them more accurate. Smart and aggressive reads got him a plenty of chances, just couldn't bury any of them. In MJ he will have a key offensive role with Yager and Firkus, I think in the end it's a better environment to get more reps for these technical skills, as long as he remembers to shoot instead of overpassing like last year.

I think youve underrated parts of Mateychuk's game for awhile now (stickhandling?) but I agree MJ is totally fine for him. Playing major minutes in a number of roles while in a leadership position is pretty valuable even if it is against a younger age group

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Berni watch continues.

Does he sign and report to Cleveland or go back to Europe? I just don't see a market or an NHL job for him right now.

 

[majormajor]

Berni watch continues.

Does he sign and report to Cleveland or go back to Europe? I just don't see a market or an NHL job for him right now.

90% chance he'll be in Switzerland, I'm guessing.

 

[tunnelvision]

I think youve underrated parts of Mateychuk's game for awhile now (stickhandling?)

Yeah, he could definitely spend time adding quickness and cleaning up his puck handling before turning pro, some examples here:


27:25-27:42
47:24
56:29


18:52-19:07

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[majormajor]

Yeah, he could definitely spend time adding quickness and cleaning up his puck handling before turning pro, some examples here:


27:25-27:42
47:24
56:29


18:52-19:07

I don't know if it's a big problem or not, or how much it can be improved. I'll just note that that is a long stick! It's tough when the puck gets too close and the stick is too long.

 

[tunnelvision]

I don't know if it's a big problem or not, or how much it can be improved. I'll just note that that is a long stick! It's tough when the puck gets too close and the stick is too long.

Or is it just low skating posture that makes it look longer? Anyhow I'd like him to get better at handling pucks (especially near his feet) and the notion that we don't how much it can be improved in his case isn't a good excuse to stop trying.

 

[stevo61]

Yeah, he could definitely spend time adding quickness and cleaning up his puck handling before turning pro, some examples here:


27:25-27:42
47:24
56:29


18:52-19:07

To me this is looking for perfection in an imperfect world. Mishandles and pucks in the feet during preseason dont scream send him back for improvement to me. I am curious now as major points out about the length of his stick. Probably helps be disruptive as a somewhat shorter defenseman who isnt overly physical but a tradeoff exists. I wonder if a shorter stick helps his shot at all. Curious cases on both sides, Bedard uses a weirdly long stick and then a guy like Thomson uses a weirdly short stick for puck handling

 

[tunnelvision]

To me this is looking for perfection in an imperfect world. Mishandles and pucks in the feet during preseason dont scream send him back for improvement to me.

I think his answer to the question suggests that's been an area of focus for him in the offseason -- and probably will be going forward.

 

[I3LI3]

the more I hear pascal speak the more I am on board fully with this hiring.

 

[BB88]

You've got to have a terminal youth bias if you think Dumais is anywhere near as good as Bemstrom right now. Dumais hasn't looked NHL ready to me. His camp hasn't been more impressive than barely anyone.

Mateychuk does look ready and I'd love to move Bean out to make room for him but there's also no hurry, Mateychuk still has a lot of unfinished business in the WHL, at the WJC, and hopefully a Memorial Cup run.

Also another year wouldn’t hurt cap wise.

Both or either on 3 year elc starting next year would do wonders

Signing Fantilli/Mateychuk/Dumais/Jiricek at the same time could be rough

 

[Napoli]

Berni watch continues.

Does he sign and report to Cleveland or go back to Europe? I just don't see a market or an NHL job for him right now.

Who cares honestly, the dude is really just not that good.