Proposal: (CBJ/TOR) Gudbranson Danforth for Liljegren Kämpf

[lanceuppercut75]

to Toronto Maple Leafs
ERIK GUDBRANSON (2y @ $4.0m)
JUSTIN DANFORTH (1y @ $1.1m)

to Columbus Blue Jackets
TIMOTHY LILJEGREN (2y @ $3.0m)
DAVID KÄMPF (3y @ $2.4m)


Columbus moves on from Gudbranson, as it's probably time to do so. They get a younger D with some 2nd pairing potential who has more trade value than Guddy if you end up flipping him. They're probably reshaping their 4th line soon anyways, and Kämpf can be part of that for 2 or 3 years. They take on Kämpf's term in exchange for getting the younger more valuable D in the swap.

Toronto swaps out Kämpf's 3 year term for a 1 year contract guy and makes their 4th line / press box situation more flexible. They cash in on whatever potential Liljegren has left in him, who it's time to move on from. They don't take on any cap. Gudbranson and Timmins can compete to be the #6 D.

Click to read more...

 

[Viqsi]

Columbus moves on from Gudbranson, as it's probably time to do so.

Nope. He's still plenty reliable (so long as you limit his duties) and a locker room leader.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Nope. He's still plenty reliable (so long as you limit his duties) and a locker room leader.

If Toronto added a low draft pick, would that be tempting?

Gudbranson isn't in CBJ long term plans, so unless they think he's crucial to the locker room, I don't see why a rebuilding team wouldn't want to swap him for a younger RD with 2nd pair potential (who could also be flipped for a pick or prospect later on).

 

[Viqsi]

If Toronto added a low draft pick, would that be tempting?

I think that'd actually qualify as insulting.

Gudbranson isn't in CBJ long term plans, so unless they think he's crucial to the locker room, I don't see why a rebuilding team wouldn't want to swap him for a younger RD with 2nd pair potential (who could also be flipped for a pick or prospect later on).

He's absolutely in the team's plans because we need guys like that for the kids to learn from. The simple truth is that Liljegren is just not interesting, and Danforth is preferable to Kampf.

 

[CBJx614]

Gudbranson has become a leader in the locker room, he's not going anywhere anytime soon and neither is Danforth.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

He's absolutely in the team's plans because we need guys like that for the kids to learn from.

To clarify, what I was referring to was :

- Severson signed long term and more capable of playing top pairing minutes than Gudbranson
- Jiricek seems to be in the long term plans, barring a big trade
- Unless he isn't developing well, I know that Carson Ceulemans requires waivers starting Oct 2026, and would be one of the CBJ RD from that point. 2026 is the same summer that Gudbranson's contract ends.

That means (unless something above isn't accurate) that you'd have to sell Gudbranson on extending in Columbus to play (or press box) behind three other RD. Can you convince him to do that? Otherwise he's leaving in 2 years.

 

[Viqsi]

To clarify, what I was referring to was :

- Severson signed long term and more capable of playing top pairing minutes than Gudbranson
- Jiricek seems to be in the long term plans, barring a big trade
- Unless he isn't developing well, I know that Carson Ceulemans requires waivers starting Oct 2026, and would be one of the CBJ RD from that point. 2026 is the same summer that Gudbranson's contract ends.

That means (unless something above isn't accurate) that you'd have to sell Gudbranson on extending in Columbus to play (or press box) behind three other RD. Can you convince him to do that? Otherwise he's leaving in 2 years.

See bolded. EDIT: And you're offering Liljegren, so top-pairing minutes capability is hardly part of this debate.

 

[CBJx614]

To clarify, what I was referring to was :

- Severson signed long term and more capable of playing top pairing minutes than Gudbranson
- Jiricek seems to be in the long term plans, barring a big trade
- Unless he isn't developing well, I know that Carson Ceulemans requires waivers starting Oct 2026, and would be one of the CBJ RD from that point. 2026 is the same summer that Gudbranson's contract ends.

That means (unless something above isn't accurate) that you'd have to sell Gudbranson on extending in Columbus to play (or press box) behind three other RD. Can you convince him to do that? Otherwise he's leaving in 2 years.

There's not a single defender on the team that brings what does. He may not get extended, but that doesn't mean we should move him. Jiricek can't beat Johnson for a spot, let alone Gudbranson.

 

[Fatass]

Why in the world would Columbus do this? Liljigen has no value. At least Gudbranson is tough as nails and can fight. That’s a lot more than lilgigren adds. And Kampf is a cap dump.
The Leafs are stuck with Lili for this year and next unless they swallow some of his contract and (or) add sugar to any trade.

 

[DJN21]

sorry on this one maple fans....maybe sign reaves and solve your....nope tried that....

 

[Djp]

To clarify, what I was referring to was :

- Severson signed long term and more capable of playing top pairing minutes than Gudbranson
- Jiricek seems to be in the long term plans, barring a big trade
- Unless he isn't developing well, I know that Carson Ceulemans requires waivers starting Oct 2026, and would be one of the CBJ RD from that point. 2026 is the same summer that Gudbranson's contract ends.

That means (unless something above isn't accurate) that you'd have to sell Gudbranson on extending in Columbus to play (or press box) behind three other RD. Can you convince him to do that? Otherwise he's leaving in 2 years.

Gudbranson will bgg e 34 when contract ends. If columbus 2 young RD are ready come 26/27 they can keep gudbranson another yr or so to semi coach them in a 7D role

If Toronto added a low draft pick, would that be tempting?

Gudbranson isn't in CBJ long term plans, so unless they think he's crucial to the locker room, I don't see why a rebuilding team wouldn't want to swap him for a younger RD with 2nd pair potential (who could also be flipped for a pick or prospect later on).

Liljegren does not have that value.
Kmapf is a cap dump.

 

[JetsFan815]

I would do this for Columbus if it is a 1 for 1 Liljegren for Gudbranson trade with an expiring contract from the Leafs side to balance out the cap. Kampf has too much term for what he brings.

 

[majormajor]

If the Leafs are just trying to dump Kampf, then maybe they can offer a pick/prospect to Columbus to take him.

The Jackets don't have any reason to move Gudbranson and Danforth. Two leaders on a team very short of leadership.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

If the Leafs are just trying to dump Kampf, then maybe they can offer a pick/prospect to Columbus to take him.

The Jackets don't have any reason to move Gudbranson and Danforth. Two leaders on a team very short of leadership.

I'm open to Toronto adding a pick or prospect into this trade, sure.

 

[majormajor]

I'm open to Toronto adding a pick or prospect into this trade, sure.

This trade as in just unloading Kampf? Or the whole 2 for 2 deal? Because I don't think Columbus would make a bigger deal, they put a higher value on keeping their veteran leaders, since they're so short on them.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

This trade as in just unloading Kampf? Or the whole 2 for 2 deal? Because I don't think Columbus would make a bigger deal, they put a higher value on keeping their veteran leaders, since they're so short on them.

Unloading Kämpf. Danforth could be Olivier instead or any depth forward $1m-ish cap or less, preferably a 1 year contract. Even Kuraly with retention if CBJ wanted to waste one of their retention slots on that.

 

[Dead Coyote]

No shot that Columbus offload the most valuable asset in the trade and get nothing of value back for them.

Gudbranson is arguably their best most consistent defender in the top 4 and Liljegren is a 4/6 tweener, there's absolutely no reason to add to the logjam at D by getting rid of your better defender for a worse one, age doesn't matter, it would be like asking for Sergachev and giving up a worse D who's younger and a cap dump, or like asking for Crosby for a middle six winger.

Rebuilding teams aren't just going to keep feeding you like they're your farm team. Consider their needs for a minute. What the hell does Liljegren for Gudbranson possibly add to their d-core?

Liljegren doesn't replace Gudbranson so that's a no, and Kampf is a dump. Danforth > Kampf and Gudbranson > Liljegren. What incentive is there? Adding a pick or prospect doesn't do anything to address the needs of the d-core.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Gudbranson is arguably their best most consistent defender in the top 4 and Liljegren is a 4/6 tweener, there's absolutely no reason to add to the logjam at D by getting rid of your better defender for a worse one, age doesn't matter, it would be like asking for Sergachev and giving up a worse D who's younger and a cap dump, or like asking for Crosby for a middle six winger.

I didn't realize Gudbranson had improved so much. Two years ago, I saw CBJ fans wishing they could get rid of him and talking about him like he would be a disaster if he played anything higher than 3rd pairing. Peeke was considered the superior RHD from what I saw at the time, and he's considered a 3rd pairing guy now.

 

[majormajor]

No shot that Columbus offload the most valuable asset in the trade and get nothing of value back for them.

Gudbranson is arguably their best most consistent defender in the top 4 and Liljegren is a 4/6 tweener, there's absolutely no reason to add to the logjam at D by getting rid of your better defender for a worse one, age doesn't matter, it would be like asking for Sergachev and giving up a worse D who's younger and a cap dump, or like asking for Crosby for a middle six winger.

Rebuilding teams aren't just going to keep feeding you like they're your farm team. Consider their needs for a minute. What the hell does Liljegren for Gudbranson possibly add to their d-core?

Liljegren doesn't replace Gudbranson so that's a no, and Kampf is a dump. Danforth > Kampf and Gudbranson > Liljegren. What incentive is there? Adding a pick or prospect doesn't do anything to address the needs of the d-core.

I didn't realize Gudbranson had improved so much. Two years ago, I saw CBJ fans wishing they could get rid of him and talking about him like he would be a disaster if he played anything higher than 3rd pairing. Peeke was considered the superior RHD from what I saw at the time, and he's considered a 3rd pairing guy now.

Gudbranson is not a top 4 D, I don't know what deadcoyote is talking about. Liljegren for Gudbranson isn't an absurd ask.

He had a strong year last year, seemingly his career best. But we're not counting on him to be particularly good this year or next. Jackets fans just don't have a reason to want to trade him. He's a leader and a pugilist, and the team doesn't need to get any younger.

 

[Dead Coyote]

I didn't realize Gudbranson had improved so much. Two years ago, I saw CBJ fans wishing they could get rid of him and talking about him like he would be a disaster if he played anything higher than 3rd pairing. Peeke was considered the superior RHD from what I saw at the time, and he's considered a 3rd pairing guy now.

He's not ideal in the top 4 but neither is Liljegren. He's still pretty solid. He's obviously not a true top 4D or anything. But CBJ doesn't have anyone else who can take those minutes and he only starts falling apart if he's played more than he should be. He's perfectly fine as a player. I'm not trying to say he's like, really good or anything, he's just better than Liljegren. Perhaps I simply have a higher opinion of Gudbranson and a lower opinion of Liljegren than most. I think Gudbranson could easily be traded in the right deal but this isn't it. I think Gudbranson is only a disaster if he's playing like 25+ top 4 minutes. But I think for the most part he's better than Liljegren. That's the problem with the deal, not that Gudbranson is really good or untouchable or something.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Gudbranson is not a top 4 D, I don't know what deadcoyote is talking about. Liljegren for Gudbranson isn't an absurd ask.

He had a strong year last year, seemingly his career best. But we're not counting on him to be particularly good this year or next. Jackets fans just don't have a reason to want to trade him. He's a leader and a pugilist, and the team doesn't need to get any younger.

It's not an absurd ask but it still doesn't do anything for the Jackets. Gudbranson is the only RHD the Jackets have on the roster right now who can handle the big forwards, clear the crease, be physical and apply pressure in front of the net. He's been pretty decent at handling one on ones off the rush as well IMO which was probably his biggest defensive liability outside of maybe positioning. He's not a two way player much anymore but he's still a solid stay at home D which is exactly what CBJ needs. I don't think Liljegren is better defensively than him, it's really just that simple.

 

[FerrisRox]

If Toronto added a low draft pick, would that be tempting?

Gudbranson isn't in CBJ long term plans, so unless they think he's crucial to the locker room, I don't see why a rebuilding team wouldn't want to swap him for a younger RD with 2nd pair potential (who could also be flipped for a pick or prospect later on).

Maybe they don't think Timothy Liljegren has second pair potential and they don't want to pay over $3 million for him to be a third pair guy?

Generally speaking, if a team is going to regularly play a very soft defender, they do so because the player in question will make up for it by putting up a lot of points.

Liljegren has spent his entire career on one of the higher scoring clubs in the league, and a team that has needed, that entire time, a great puck moving offensive defenseman, but he has peaked at 23 points and has often been relegated to the press box.

I think having Gudbranson as a leader and role model to their young D is a more valuable piece for the Jackets. Kampf is also overpaid for what he provides and wouldn't be enticing at all.

 

[squashmaple]

No shot that Columbus offload the most valuable asset in the trade and get nothing of value back for them.

Gudbranson is arguably their best most consistent defender in the top 4 and Liljegren is a 4/6 tweener, there's absolutely no reason to add to the logjam at D by getting rid of your better defender for a worse one, age doesn't matter, it would be like asking for Sergachev and giving up a worse D who's younger and a cap dump, or like asking for Crosby for a middle six winger.

This is a legitimately insane thing to say. Gudbranson is a perfectly fine 3RD who can play up in the lineup in a pinch, but if you have to make that pinch you're a dreadful team. Did you perhaps confuse Erik Gudbranson, career third pair, with Zach Werenski, actual top-20 defenseman in the league?

You're not wrong that a team would probably prefer Gudbranson to Liljegren, but it's not because Guddy is "better." He's tougher.

I didn't realize Gudbranson had improved so much. Two years ago, I saw CBJ fans wishing they could get rid of him and talking about him like he would be a disaster if he played anything higher than 3rd pairing. Peeke was considered the superior RHD from what I saw at the time, and he's considered a 3rd pairing guy now.

No. What? Who said that? I want receipts. No one said that. Peeke and Gudbranson are essentially the same player, Peeke is just younger and doesn't have the baggage of having been a top-10 pick or lengthy career of mostly sucking. And I say this as someone whose tagline on this website is literally "Gudbranson apologist."

Gudbranson is also likely out for the season with a major shoulder injury, so this is all moot.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Not interested in Gudbranson.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Maybe they don't think Timothy Liljegren has second pair potential and they don't want to pay over $3 million for him to be a third pair guy?

Fair enough, don't have to move him here then.

Generally speaking, if a team is going to regularly play a very soft defender, they do so because the player in question will make up for it by putting up a lot of points.

Liljegren has spent his entire career on one of the higher scoring clubs in the league, and a team that has needed, that entire time, a great puck moving offensive defenseman, but he has peaked at 23 points and has often been relegated to the press box.

When Tim established himself through '21 -'23, he played 16 and a half and 18 minutes (roughly) TOI with very little powerplay time, and if he did, it was with the second unit. Last season, he averaged nearly 20 minutes a game.

So, with actual context, (rather than Hab fan bias) for a 22-year-old, that point total isn't bad, considering he's quite solid defensively despite not being a robust physical presence.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRWYGfmbUAAdW5e.jpg

I think having Gudbranson as a leader and role model to their young D is a more valuable piece for the Jackets. Kampf is also overpaid for what he provides and wouldn't be enticing at all.

Great! Keep him; the deal isn't appealing anyway; no offence to the OP.