Line Combos: CBJ Roster Discussion/Line Combos/Injury Report

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Makar

Cale Makar - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20242025&thruseason=20242025&playerid=8480069&sit=5v5&stype=2&stdoi=oi&rate=&v=s

Werenski

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20242025&thruseason=20242025&playerid=8478460&sit=5v5&stype=2&stdoi=oi&rate=&v=t

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20242025&thruseason=20242025&playerid=8478460&sit=5v5&stype=2&stdoi=oi&rate=&v=s

 

[NotCommitted]

This morning I went back for a look at the summer moves Waddell made soon upon his arrival. He moved on from many guys who’d not locked down spots or been in and out of the line-up. The list included Bean, Boqvist, Texier, Nylander, Meyer and Blankenburg among others.

I had questions about a couple of these moves. However, looking at how the season has gone for each player conforms to me Waddell knew what he was doing. Everyone mentioned has been either in and out of their team’s line-up or buried in the AHL. Maybe with a couple of these guys we lost some depth that could have aided Cleveland, but no one who would change this team’s trajectory. What it did was trim the glut in some positions. So hats off to Waddell on his early work.

Nylander I would've liked to see given a chance, he did well last year, is a former high pick and has had struggles with injuries in the past - so why not? Ofc losing JG was unforseen, but having a couple forward injuries not so much and having him in the lineup could've been a help in absence of KJ/Jenner/Voronkov. I don't feel strongly about this at all, it's just guy gets a chance and does great with it... sure, maybe a flash in the pan or whatever but in those situations I'd always like to believe they can keep it up until proven otherwise - I just wouldn't hand out a lot of money for that belief I'm actually surprised he didn't get an NHL spot anywhere, could've been cheap depth with some upside.

Blankenburg I always liked and he seemed like an NHL player when he was healthy and able but he was rarely that so... Rest are meh to me, Texier I was initially high on but he he's never really been as good as I think he could be, for whatever reason. Could be I just overrated him and saw more than is there, or he's struggling with being in NA / far away from home or whatever, who knows.

 

[thebus88]

This Sillinger stuff is ridiculous. He’s been the worst player on his line the entire year and arguably held back whatever line he’s been on, no matter who he’s played with.

The comparison to prime Dubinsky is too far. He’s not playing “matchup minutes” any more than essentially any other player, he’s simply being used in a role at center, where he shouldn’t be playing, higher in the lineup that he should be, but, is getting the BENEFIT from playing with good players.

They start all different lines during different games for all different types of reasons. Olivier and Chinakhov have been 2 of our most impactful/best players all year. That’s who was ACTUALLY “matching up against” Kucherov, not Sillinger.

ZAR would be a better option and better for the team centering these lines that Sillinger has been higher in the lineup.

imo

 

[Viqsi]

This Sillinger stuff is ridiculous. He’s been the worst player on his line the entire year and arguably held back whatever line he’s been on, no matter who he’s played with.

The comparison to prime Dubinsky is too far. He’s not playing “matchup minutes” any more than essentially any other player, he’s simply being used in a role at center, where he shouldn’t be playing, higher in the lineup that he should be, but, is getting the BENEFIT from playing with good players.

Are you seriously saying that someone like Mikael Pyyhtia is better than the likes of Cam Atkinson, Nick Foligno, Brandon Saad, and/or Matt Calvert? Because that is the direct, inescapable conclusion of your attempt at trotting out the already-preemptively-refuted "playing with good players" argument. We all have our moments, for sure, but come on - nobody's that crazy.

He's putting up the same points production as prime Dubinsky. That's inescapable and indisputable. He's obviously not the same style or quality of player. Nobody's claiming that. Nobody's even come close to claiming that - just that he's getting overlooked and deserves a reevaluation. Coming back with "worst player on his line the entire year and holds back everyone everywhere", backed with arguments that have already been refuted... that's absurd hyperbolic bullshit and you G-d damn well know it.

If you're going to give an evaluation or refutation, at least have the decency to give us an honest one.

 

[Cowumbus]

The thing with Sillinger is he doesn’t score. I believe he has 3 goals, one of them an ENG. On pace for 13 which is far too low for second line guy IMO.

 

[thebus88]

Are you seriously saying that someone like Mikael Pyyhtia is better than the likes of Cam Atkinson, Nick Foligno, Brandon Saad, and/or Matt Calvert? Because that is the direct, inescapable conclusion of your attempt at trotting out the already-preemptively-refuted "playing with good players" argument. We all have our moments, for sure, but come on - nobody's that crazy.

What are you talking about!?! I’m talking about Sillinger. And him in relation to Dubinsky, and yes, Pyyhtia, who YES, I think is a better player right now than Sillinger. He’s playing with arguably our 2 most impactful wingers of the entire season, along with having plenty of good linemates throughout the year.

He's putting up the same points production as prime Dubinsky. That's inescapable and indisputable. He's obviously not the same style or quality of player. Nobody's claiming that. Nobody's even come close to claiming that - just that he's getting overlooked and deserves a reevaluation.

The “point production” isn’t the same, as current goal scoring and league wide NHL players point production isn’t the same as it was back then. So yeah, a little to dispute.

Not only will I dispute the role that Dubinsky played in relation to what Sillinger is said to be playing now, while also making it known just how SUCCESSFUL Dubinsky and the team were while he was filling said role, while the complete opposite can be said for Sillinger. THAT is inescapable and indisputable.

Not only that, I’m pretty sure, while it may be limited in numbers, that there ARE some people trying some sort of claims. He’s young, everyone gets that, he’s also not being “overlooked” by anyone, and certainly doesn’t deserve any type of “reevaluation”. IMO

Coming back with "worst player on his line the entire year and holds back everyone everywhere", backed with arguments that have already been refuted... that's absurd hyperbolic bullshit and you G-d damn well know it.

What the hell has been “refuted”, miss fact checker?? Pyyhtia > Sillinger

If you're going to give an evaluation or refutation, at least have the decency to give us an honest one.

Ditto x 1000

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

Regarding the subject of Columbus looking for a top 6 forward, I have suspected for a while now that they are going to go after Marner next off-season, assuming he doesn't re-sign in Toronto. I used to be against it but now I have become significantly more open to it. He (or Rantanen, but I think he'll stay in Colorado) I think is just what the doctor ordered for them, skilled two-way forwards with significant playmaking and offensive capabilities. Of course, Marner's playoffs performances has turned many a poster on here sour on him, but that's a matter of roster construction, I think. Perhaps they can use some of the picks earned at the deadline to get his rights before he hits UFA.

However it goes, I am very much looking forward to this coming off-season. Until then, I'll enjoy watching Evason put his mark on the team and players like Kent Johnson show glimpses of a brighter future.

 

[Viqsi]

What are you talking about!?! I’m talking about Sillinger. And him in relation to Dubinsky, and yes, Pyyhtia, who YES, I think is a better player right now than Sillinger.

What the hell has been “refuted”, miss fact checker?? Pyyhtia > Sillinger

Your logical fallacy is strawman

You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

What I asked:

Are you seriously saying that someone like Mikael Pyyhtia is better than the likes of Cam Atkinson, Nick Foligno, Brandon Saad, and/or Matt Calvert?

If you look very, very carefully, you will not see the presence of the name "Sillinger" anywhere in or near that sentence.


Why did I ask that? Because you claimed that Sillinger is, and I quote:

getting the BENEFIT from playing with good players.

(emphasis added)
Dubinsky and Wennberg were playing with the four guys I mentioned. Sillinger is playing with Pyyhtia. (This per @cbjthrowaway's earlier research and post, the existence of which is why I referred to the argument as "already refuted".)

Your claim can therefore be summed up as: Sillinger only looks like he's putting up offense similar to Dubinsky and Wennberg in those career years because he is playing with a supporting cast that is better than the supporting cast those two played with.
This necessiarily implies an assertion that Mikael Pyyhtia - since he's one of the biggest parts of that supporting cast - is a better hockey player overall - particularly in assisting offensive production, since those are the numbers we're looking at right now - than Atkinson, Foligno, Saad, and/or Calvert. I will remind you at this point that two of those are in the top-5 in offensive production in the entire history of the franchise. I will also remind you that Pyyhtia, as nice as he has looked overall, has all of one point (a goal) in 17 games this season.

This is the claim you made, and what I called you out on. The rest of your post is hyperbolic window dressing driven by what looks like being offended that someone dared to even hint at mentioning a player you love.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

The thing with Sillinger is he doesn’t score. I believe he has 3 goals, one of them an ENG. On pace for 13 which is far too low for second line guy IMO.

does his shorthanded goal balance out the ENG?

anyway that's one way to look at it – another is that his shooting percentage is likely to regress to the mean (in a good way).

What the hell has been “refuted”, miss fact checker?? Pyyhtia > Sillinger

guy with one point > guy with way more than one point. math nerds hate this one simple trick!!

jokes aside, sillinger's scoring pace (~52 points) is literally more than 10x what pyyhtia's 1p/17gp paces out to (5 points over a full season, if you round up).

I get that you need a new guy to make bombastic claims about now that laine's gone but let's try to keep some pretense that this is rooted in reality.

I have suspected for a while now that they are going to go after Marner next off-season, assuming he doesn't re-sign in Toronto. I used to be against it but now I have become significantly more open to it. He (or Rantanen, but I think he'll stay in Colorado) I think is just what the doctor ordered for them, skilled two-way forwards with significant playmaking and offensive capabilities.

seeing kent johnson cook so damn hard in dean's system should put mitch marner at the top of everyone's christmas list. he would be an absolute demon in this system.

 

[Viqsi]

seeing kent johnson cook so damn hard in dean's system should put mitch marner at the top of everyone's christmas list. he would be an absolute demon in this system.

I would be more eager for this one if I had confidence that Evason's going to be our long-term coach. (I still think we're going to end up moving on from him once this team is solidly a regular bubble-or-better team - presuming, of course, we do get there.)

As it is I sure wouldn't complain about adding him, tho.

 

[thebus88]

Your logical fallacy is strawman

You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

What I asked:

If you look very, very carefully, you will not see the presence of the name "Sillinger" anywhere in or near that sentence.


Why did I ask that? Because you claimed that Sillinger is, and I quote:

(emphasis added)
Dubinsky and Wennberg were playing with the four guys I mentioned. Sillinger is playing with Pyyhtia. (This per @cbjthrowaway's earlier research and post, the existence of which is why I referred to the argument as "already refuted".)

Your claim can therefore be summed up as: Sillinger only looks like he's putting up offense similar to Dubinsky and Wennberg in those career years because he is playing with a supporting cast that is better than the supporting cast those two played with.
This necessiarily implies an assertion that Mikael Pyyhtia - since he's one of the biggest parts of that supporting cast - is a better hockey player overall - particularly in assisting offensive production, since those are the numbers we're looking at right now - than Atkinson, Foligno, Saad, and/or Calvert. I will remind you at this point that two of those are in the top-5 in offensive production in the entire history of the franchise. I will also remind you that Pyyhtia, as nice as he has looked overall, has all of one point (a goal) in 17 games this season.

This is the claim you made, and what I called you out on. The rest of your post is hyperbolic window dressing driven by what looks like being offended that someone dared to even hint at mentioning a player you love.

What are you talking about. You understand this is all your imagination, correct??

I’m making distinct points that have ZERO to do with Atkinson/Saad/Foligno and most of what you are turning my comments into somehow.

1st, Sillinger is nowhere near the player that Dubinsky was, and that the individual player “points” shouldn’t be compared because scoring is different now, along with the fact that Dubinsky played a much more defensive and “matchup” style TOI deployment, and that the team actually WON GAMES when Dubinsky was playing a similar role.

2. Pyyhtia is a better player than Sillinger, right now. Maybe not in 4 years. But, he is right now. AND NO I DONT CARE ABOUT THE POINTS.

 

[Viqsi]

What are you talking about. You understand this is all your imagination, correct??

I’m making distinct points that have ZERO to do with Atkinson/Saad/Foligno and most of what you are turning my comments into somehow.

1st, Sillinger is nowhere near the player that Dubinsky was, and that the individual player “points” shouldn’t be compared because scoring is different now, along with the fact that Dubinsky played a much more defensive and “matchup” style TOI deployment, and that the team actually WON GAMES when Dubinsky was playing a similar role.

2. Pyyhtia is a better player than Sillinger, right now. Maybe not in 4 years. But, he is right now. AND NO I DONT CARE ABOUT THE POINTS.

Sorry, I'm too busy enjoying watching the game to 'splain it a third time.

 

[ViD]

I mean let’s be honest here, Sillinger is not a top 6 player by any means but he can be an extremely effective bottom 6 player

 

[Cowumbus]

does his shorthanded goal balance out the ENG?

anyway that's one way to look at it – another is that his shooting percentage is likely to regress to the mean (in a good way).

he is young and can get better, but he is a 12-18 goal a year guy right now. If he’s a good 3C long term I’m still okay with that.

 

[thebus88]

The thing with Sillinger is he doesn’t score. I believe he has 3 goals, one of them an ENG. On pace for 13 which is far too low for second line guy IMO.

He’s also a bad at handling the puck and passing, and essentially adds nothing as a “playmaker” and adds nothing to improve his linemates offensive production.

The difference guys have playing with Monahan in relation to Sillinger can barely be put into words.

And to add, I think he’s pretty terrible defensively and shouldn’t be in the PK. His “reads” both offensively and defensively are poor, IMO.

 

[koteka]

he is young and can get better, but he is a 12-18 goal a year guy right now. If he’s a good 3C long term I’m still okay with that.

A 3C who stays healthy and kills penalties. Why would anyone complain about that?

I don’t mind a scenario this summer or next season where we have too many guys who can play center and some are forced to be wings or get traded. “Oh no, our third line is Boone Jenner, Dmitri Voronkov, and Cole Sillinger. LDBB is stuck in Cleveland because we have no room for him. Every team in the league is calling us trying to make a trade. Whatever shall we do?”

 

[Doggy]

Quick comment, I think it's pretty obvious that once a kid is 21 that's it...there is no way they will ever be more than they are right now.

That said, I came here to talk about Fabbro. I know it's early but does anyone think Fabbro's play with Z might change the CBJ thought process on the future blue line of this team? Viqsi opened my eyes on him, he might be a perfect fit as Z's running mate for the next few years. I am sure some people might not see a top pairing d-man when they look at him but this summer we were told Jarmo was good at acquiring talent but struggled to assemble a "team". Maybe Fabbro's one of those guys...a good fit for the team.

 

[Cowumbus]

A 3C who stays healthy and kills penalties. Why would anyone complain about that?

Prob because he was a top 15 first round pick. I don’t mind it though.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

And to add, I think he’s pretty terrible defensively and shouldn’t be in the PK. His “reads” both offensively and defensively are poor, IMO.

a whole staff of experienced NHL coaches has seen fit to put his line (regardless of his linemates) against the other team's top forwards every night this season. he's also been one of their most-used penalty kill forwards.

I'm not above people on the internet criticizing coaches (Pascal Vincent belongs in The Hague for the way he coached this team last year) but in this instance I'd venture to say that Evason probably has a better read on Sillinger's defensive abilities if he trusts him in those situations.