Line Combos: CBJ Roster Discussion/Line Combos/Injury Report (Voronkov returns)

[NotCommitted]

The way I see it, or would like to see it, is if you have credible information / sources for "something", but for whatever reason can't specifically name those sources, then just report it stating "credible sources within the team tell me that something something". If even that is too much, ie. you were told "something" but it was so off the record you need to be so hush hush about it you can only "report" it by being so roundabout and mysterious that no one knows anymore if you have information or are just speculating, then just don't report it at all.

I really dislike the kind of reporting that implies and hints and creates the impression the reporter is tapping into sources but "can't tell", so all he can do is to wrap a supposed nugget of information in a cloud of mystery so thick it's really up to the reader what to make of it, or not.

To be clear, I haven't even read Porty's latest comments on Elvis so my comments above are not specific to that or, even to Porty necessary, though sometimes I think he can be prone to not being very clear about separating Porty the professional journalist talking facts and Porty the half-journalist, half-CBJ fan speculating or telling us what he'd like to be true.

 

[thebus88]

What exactly would Portzline have to say, or how would he have to say it for people to believe multiple/many players have had a problem with Merzlikins over time??

Are people still of the opinion that we should look to move THESE players?

Do people really think Portzline would even bring it up if it wasn’t some sort of actual issue, and not just a couple/few players??

What number of players is the cut off where you would think it would be best to move the terrible starting goalie that other players don’t like??

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Elvis Merzlikins f***ing sucks, and he ALWAYS HAS. IMO, of course.

 

[CBJ goalie]

Anyways, enough about Porty and whether he reports properly, or how he says it, yadda yadda yadda.....

Sucks for Guddy, these long term injuries are getting to be a bit much for a young rebuilding team.
If Jiricek doesn't seize this opportunity......

 

[VT]

Porty should not bring up things from the past, especially when the situation has changed, but make judgments based on what is happening now.
---
I think Tarasov could be Number 1. He is better than Elvis in that season.

 

[Cowumbus]

I expect Chinakhov, Johnson, Marchenko to continue to get better. I don’t expect Laine to develop much more than what he is. Keep in mind the salary cap. Which is why I said there might be better options than Laine for this team.

I know the sample size is very very small, however I remember a discussion we had in the Laine thread / saga last year was that we needed to put him in positions to succeed because we can’t “replace” his production.
Well looks promising thus far. 91, 23, 86, 59 all above 2.5 P/60 5v5. 34 and 19 just below 2.
As a team the CBJ are 5th in goals/60 5v5.

 

[VT]

I know the sample size is very very small, however I remember a discussion we had in the Laine thread / saga last year was that we needed to put him in positions to succeed because we can’t “replace” his production.
Well looks promising thus far. 91, 23, 86, 59 all above 2.5 P/60 5v5. 34 and 19 just below 2.

Your logic is excellent. You're comparing Laine, who played on a team with worse defense, coming off injuries, and with rookie coaches, to players who have a good defense, an experienced coach, and especially Marchenko and Chinakhov an excellent center.
The statisticians would be happy for you.

Btw, he is only 2 year older than Marchenko.

 

[Cowumbus]

Your logic is excellent. You're comparing Laine, who played on a team with worse defense, coming off injuries, and with rookie coaches, to players who have a good defense, an experienced coach, and especially Marchenko and Chinakhov an excellent center.
The statisticians would be happy for you.

Btw, he is only 2 year older than Marchenko.

Wait until you find out that Chinakhov scored at a 2.35 P/60 5v5 last year. KJ has gotten better each year, same with Marchenko. Fantilli 2 P/60 last year (worse this year). You’re mad because we have guys that are good players 5v5? 86, 59, 23 numbers are probably even better if we keep the line together (one of the best lines in hockey).

 

[Viqsi]

I know the sample size is very very small, however I remember a discussion we had in the Laine thread / saga last year was that we needed to put him in positions to succeed because we can’t “replace” his production.
Well looks promising thus far. 91, 23, 86, 59 all above 2.5 P/60 5v5. 34 and 19 just below 2.
As a team the CBJ are 5th in goals/60 5v5.

I would argue that at the time it was true because the kids weren't ready back then. Truthfully we still don't know if they're ready now because very very small sample size, but it's certainly encouraging so far.

 

[Cowumbus]

I would argue that at the time it was true because the kids weren't ready back then. Truthfully we still don't know if they're ready now because very very small sample size, but it's certainly encouraging so far.

I posted that in January of this year. IMO even then, 59 and 86 were better options.

Want to know something crazy, Texier (another player plotted above) is scoring at a 4.6 P/60 pace 5v5!!

 

[VT]

Wait until you find out that Chinakhov scored at a 2.35 P/60 5v5 last year. KJ has gotten better each year, same with Marchenko. Fantilli 2 P/60 last year (worse this year). You’re mad because we have guys that are good players 5v5? 86, 59, 23 numbers are probably even better if we keep the line together (one of the best lines in hockey).

Last season we had a better defense (I mean first pass) than in the 2021/22 and 2022/23 seasons. Also, the Russians played mostly together, and the players had chemistry.

I'm honestly happy for the Chinakhov - Monahan - Marchenko line, especially Yegor. It's just that the wingers benefit from the center play, after all, Monahan is better than Jenner and Roslovic, and he has similar style like Voronkov.

Laine has been improving for us too, the fact that he had a concussion last season is not his fault.

EDIT: Yegor played minimum games in 2022/23 season, any sense to count it.

I would argue that at the time it was true because the kids weren't ready back then. Truthfully we still don't know if they're ready now because very very small sample size, but it's certainly encouraging so far.

Hope they are ready. Than make something with the second line. Voronkov - Fantilli - Johnson?

 

[Cowumbus]

Monahan is better than Jenner and Roslovic, and he has similar style like Voronkov.

Monahan hasn’t been above 2 P/60 5v5 since 2016 (he’s been around 1.8 for 2 years). Maybe 59 and 86 make him better.

 

[VT]

Monahan hasn’t been above 2 P/60 5v5 since 2016 (he’s been around 1.8 for 2 years). Maybe 59 and 86 make him better. Jenner has been above 1.8 P/60 5v5 for the last 3 years (which correlate with his move to a top 6 C role).

I think he connects them very well. At least for now, although the stats are interesting.

 

[majormajor]

I know the sample size is very very small, however I remember a discussion we had in the Laine thread / saga last year was that we needed to put him in positions to succeed because we can’t “replace” his production.
Well looks promising thus far. 91, 23, 86, 59 all above 2.5 P/60 5v5. 34 and 19 just below 2.
As a team the CBJ are 5th in goals/60 5v5.

I wrote about this last year, that it was beyond time to move on from Laine, and that we had to put our younger players in positions to succeed. Laine was always a huge distraction.

I posted that in January of this year. IMO even then, 59 and 86 were better options.

Want to know something crazy, Texier (another player plotted above) is scoring at a 4.6 P/60 pace 5v5!!

Tex had that number for one game because of one assist. He did not score in his second game, today, so now has about half that P/60. That isn't very noteworthy. I did think he looked good next to Kyrou in game one.

Monahan hasn’t been above 2 P/60 5v5 since 2016 (he’s been around 1.8 for 2 years). Maybe 59 and 86 make him better. Jenner has been above 1.8 P/60 5v5 for the last 3 years (which correlate with his move to a top 6 C role).

I think Monahan is better too. The whole story about him never taking time off for injuries and how they didn't finally heal until he took time off recently, well it looks like it is true. So it's that and also 59 and 86 are really good.

I'm not sure what your source is, but according to NST Jenner was around 1.5 - 1.6 P/60 for the last two seasons, which is a bit low for a top sixer. He has one career season at or above 1.8, in 2021-22 when he had 2.05 P/60.

 

[Cowumbus]

I'm a little confused as to what you're quoting, considering it directs to an unrelated post from last week.

Also the labeling - is 2023-24 2024? Technically Laine hasn't played in the whole calendar year.

I can’t quote posts from closed threads. It’s originally from here:

Player Discussion: - Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

Good players can be bad at times, that isn't at debate. I would like Laine to be less bad when he's bad. Me too. I'd prefer him healthy and elite. He probably does too but there's these Andersson's and Lagesson's who disagree.

forums.hfboards.com

And yes, 23/24 = 24.

Tex had that number for one game because of one assist. He did not score in his second game, today, so now has about half that P/60. That isn't very noteworthy. I did think he looked good next to Kyrou in game one.

I haven’t watched Texier at all. Just was sorting on Moneypuck and saw him.

I think Monahan is better too. The whole story about him never taking time off for injuries and how they didn't finally heal until he took time off recently, well it looks like it is true. So it's that and also 59 and 86 are really good.

Agreed

I'm not sure what your source is, but according to NST Jenner was around 1.5 - 1.6 P/60 for the last two seasons, which is a bit low for a top sixer. He has one career season at or above 1.8, in 2021-22 when he had 2.05 P/60.

Not sure what I was looking at, I was using Moneypuck and it matches what you have. I think I must have done “all situations” instead of 5v5.

 

[VT]

It's too early for overall stats now, so we'll be wiser mid-season. We know that Marchenko and Chinakhov are excellent players. In my opinion, better than Caufield and Slafkovský, when one Montreal player was already mentioned. True, Habs fans didn't like my opinion, why?

 

[majormajor]

I can’t quote posts from closed threads. It’s originally from here:

Player Discussion: - Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

Good players can be bad at times, that isn't at debate. I would like Laine to be less bad when he's bad. Me too. I'd prefer him healthy and elite. He probably does too but there's these Andersson's and Lagesson's who disagree.

forums.hfboards.com

Got it.

Not sure what I was looking at, I was using Moneypuck and it matches what you have. I think I must have done “all situations” instead of 5v5.

They need to get rid of "all situations" so we stop making that mistake. I don't think I've ever found a use for that stat.

It's too early for overall stats now, so we'll be wiser mid-season. We know that Marchenko and Chinakhov are excellent players. In my opinion, better than Caufield and Slafkovský, when one Montreal player was already mentioned. True, Habs fans didn't like my opinion, why?

It would be nice if those two keep this up so we can start throwing that back at Habs fans later in the year.

 

[VT]

It would be nice if those two keep this up so we can start throwing that back at Habs fans later in the year.

Montreal fans are happy they trade Harris for the 2nd round and they won't care what Marchenko, Chinakhov, Voronkov or Johnson play great or not.

 

[koteka]

Maybe it's just me but it seems like we get more shoulder injuries then the average team

Once upon a time we were a hard-to-play-against team that hit anything that moved. I don’t recall a ton of shoulder injuries from those days.

 

[ViD]

Seeing how good Provorov has played this year, do people really still want to get rid of him without even attempting to re-sign ?

He’s only 27 years old

 

[koteka]

Seeing how good Provorov has played this year, do people really still want to get rid of him without even attempting to re-sign ?

He’s only 27 years old

Guy in his contract year is playing better than he has in a long time? Trade him at the deadline is the correct response.

 

[majormajor]

Seeing how good Provorov has played this year, do people really still want to get rid of him without even attempting to re-sign ?

He’s only 27 years old

He also started out hot making plays last Fall, before seeming to lose focus. I got the idea last year that he just wasn't that interested in it.

If he's keeping this up all year then I'd certainly be interested in an extension, but of the short term variety (1-4 years), which I imagine he wouldn't do. I think if he has a strong year Provorov will look for a super long term deal (6-8 years).

 

[stevo61]

He also started out hot making plays last Fall, before seeming to lose focus. I got the idea last year that he just wasn't that interested in it.

If he's keeping this up all year then I'd certainly be interested in an extension, but of the short term variety (1-4 years), which I imagine he wouldn't do. I think if he has a strong year Provorov will look for a super long term deal (6-8 years).

Probably got bored in the system, kinda felt like a bunch of guys did. This year probably feels a good amount of appreciation being able to play the game that made him a high pick and also be relied upon on that top pair. The contract factor never hurts motivation though

 

[thebus88]

Your logic is excellent. You're comparing Laine, who played on a team with worse defense, coming off injuries, and with rookie coaches, to players who have a good defense, an experienced coach, and especially Marchenko and Chinakhov an excellent center.
The statisticians would be happy for you.

Btw, he is only 2 year older than Marchenko.

ZERO coincidence the team is playing a completely different way, and winning games, without superstar Patrik Laine.

Chinakhov, Marchenko, Johnson, and Voronkov are all better hockey players and more impactful on the ice. And Fantilli.

 

[thebus88]

Seeing how good Provorov has played this year, do people really still want to get rid of him without even attempting to re-sign ?

He’s only 27 years old

Werenski-Mateychuk-Severson is our top 3 moving forward. And then there’s Jiricek. Christiansen is another seemingly decent left handed #4-5 defenseman.

Think about the raises all of the young forwards are going to be getting. Along with Mateychuk on his next deal.

Not to mention, we are looking at a pretty decent return for Provorov.

 

[stevo61]

ZERO coincidence the team is playing a completely different way, and winning games, without superstar Patrik Laine.

Chinakhov, Marchenko, Johnson, and Voronkov are all better hockey players and more impactful on the ice. And Fantilli.

They sucked without him last year for 64 games too