CBJ Prospect Thread III

[bizzz*]

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2012/08/09/2012-u-s-wjc-camp-day-6-recap-usa-vs-sweden/

Mike Reilly — Dynamic. If there was one word I could use to describe Reilly, it’s that. He had a pair of assists today, including the beauty of a no-look feed off the end-to-end rush to put Gaudreau in a position to score. I’ve been following the WJC really closely for the last five years and I can’t really recall a defenseman on a U.S. team that has the offensive skill-set of Reilly. There’s speed, there’s puck skills, there’s the shot. Now Reilly has a few deficiencies in his own zone, but to have a weapon like him on the back end has got to be nice, especially for Phil Housley who was known to freelance a little bit himself.

And from the evaluation camp thread:

A LOT of good defenders for the US this year. Really tough to sort it out, but this is my personal opinion:

Trouba
Jones
Reilly
Skjei
Gostisbehere
Murphy
----------
McCabe


Grzelcyk
Haar
Seiloffrd
Welinski

Nice to see Reilly as a 3rd best d-man right after the two top-10 draft picks and in front of those other first rounders (including Columbus,OH native Connor Murphy).

Housley's probably having flashbacks watching Reilly play.

 

[Krishna]

Alright, I'm back with a few questions

TJ Tynan is one prospect I am looking at picking up as a free agent for my farm team in a draft league. Looking at his stats, he is very small but a good scorer. What do you guy see his ceiling at and possibly what do you realistically settling in as?

 

[Viqsi]

Alright, I'm back with a few questions

TJ Tynan is one prospect I am looking at picking up as a free agent for my farm team in a draft league. Looking at his stats, he is very small but a good scorer. What do you guy see his ceiling at and possibly what do you realistically settling in as?

I'm thinking "Derek Roy, but not for two years at the earliest." That said, I think I'm the only one here who really, really likes him.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Alright, I'm back with a few questions

TJ Tynan is one prospect I am looking at picking up as a free agent for my farm team in a draft league. Looking at his stats, he is very small but a good scorer. What do you guy see his ceiling at and possibly what do you realistically settling in as?

Probably a 2nd line scorer who won't be an NHLer for probably 3 years.

 

[Sore Loser]

Alright, I'm back with a few questions

TJ Tynan is one prospect I am looking at picking up as a free agent for my farm team in a draft league. Looking at his stats, he is very small but a good scorer. What do you guy see his ceiling at and possibly what do you realistically settling in as?

Top end ceiling is a Brian Gionta type player. Realistic ceiling is a second line/support scorer with 25/25 potential, but he's a bit of a reach for that IMO. Really taking a chance with him, but it could pay off nicely.

 

[EspenK]

You're hosed. Take him or leave him off, either way you could get burned.

 

[Viqsi]

Top end ceiling is a Brian Gionta type player. Realistic ceiling is a second line/support scorer with 25/25 potential, but he's a bit of a reach for that IMO. Really taking a chance with him, but it could pay off nicely.

Brian Gionta typically hits 25/25 as is, and he plays wing rather than center.

 

[Sore Loser]

Brian Gionta typically hits 25/25 as is, and he plays wing rather than center.

I never said center

And, while you're right, Gionta did have some "up years" where he scored at a higher pace, including an 89 point anomaly in 2005. I don't think Tynan will ever produce at that rate, and I think it's a stretch to say he'll ever score 50 points in a single NHL season. But, that is about where I'd place his ceiling.

 

[bizzz*]

Every time I watch Jenner playing he takes dumb penalties. Tonight when he was in the box Russians scored 5th goal.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Every time I watch Jenner playing he takes dumb penalties. Tonight when he was in the box Russians scored 5th goal.

That can be fixed over time. Not too concerned. I heard he impressed other than that, and Murray looked dynamic. Here's his goal.



BTW, what are you guys' thoughts on Teddy Ruth? I know he's struggled at the AHL level, but I think he can still be an effective NHL shutdown defenseman. Your thoughts?

 

[EspenK]

BTW, what are you guys' thoughts on Teddy Ruth? I know he's struggled at the AHL level, but I think he can still be an effective NHL shutdown defenseman. Your thoughts?

Why would you think a struggling AHL guy would make a good NHL player?

 

[Sore Loser]

That can be fixed over time. Not too concerned. I heard he impressed other than that, and Murray looked dynamic...

http://www.whl.ca/article/canada-drops-game-3-to-russia-in-challenge

Canada falls to 1-2 vs. the Russians, but the pairing of Ryan Murray and Ryan Murphy was excellent when they were together. The video that you shared is the Ryan Murray we're used to seeing in the WHL; add to that some stellar defensive zone play.

I'm also not concerned about Boone Jenner taking penalties; he's most effective when he's playing physical and battling in the corners. Penalties are inevitable, but CBJBrassard is right, it can be worked on.

 

[Sore Loser]

Why would you think a struggling AHL guy would make a good NHL player?

Personally I've never been too high on Theo Ruth, but that's just me. I think he still has some room to grow, but one can't overlook the fact that he's a 23 year old already, and has barely kept afloat in the AHL. If he sees NHL time, I don't think he'll develop into anything more than a #6/7 guy on a poor team.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Why would you think a struggling AHL guy would make a good NHL player?

Because of his potential.

 

[bizzz*]

What I liked about Murray most - Murphy is offensive minded d-man and Murray was comfortable playing with him, he's very solid in his own zone for his age. In the 2nd game (Russians won 6:3) Murphy played a lot with Hamilton and Dougie didn't help him a lot defensively - 3 goals were solely on Murphy, one of them was shorthanded. Hamilton's skill set for his size is very impressive though, looks like Boston got their Chara replacement. But I'm not disappointed a bit with Murray pick - he was rock solid and looked older than all the other d-men drafted in 2011-12 (Reinhart, Murphy, Reilly). Also he played better than las December at the WJC I think.

 

[candyman82]

Every time I watch Jenner playing he takes dumb penalties. Tonight when he was in the box Russians scored 5th goal.

He's young and physical, discipline can be taught. I'm not too concerned about it.

 

[Sore Loser]

What I liked about Murray most - Murphy is offensive minded d-man and Murray was comfortable playing with him, he's very solid in his own zone for his age. In the 2nd game (Russians won 6:3) Murphy played a lot with Hamilton and Dougie didn't help him a lot defensively - 3 goals were solely on Murphy, one of them was shorthanded. Hamilton's skill set for his size is very impressive though, looks like Boston got their Chara replacement. But I'm not disappointed a bit with Murray pick - he was rock solid and looked older than all the other d-men drafted in 2011-12 (Reinhart, Murphy, Reilly). Also he played better than las December at the WJC I think.

His performance at the WJC game vs. Russia should be forgotten. He had some terrible luck, and it's unfair to judge him solely on playing against Nail Yakupov and Evgeni Kuznetsov, who had major chemistry and were exploiting the Canadians every chance they got. Murray, though he actually played pretty well, was simply the beneficiary of some unlucky bounces and poorly timed mistakes by the Canadian team. At the end of the game, it was still Murray that was being counted on for the big minutes - that says more about him than anything. Other than that, his WJC was fine.

He's the kind of player that makes everyone around him far better. He played with numerous different guys in Everett this year, and whenever he was on the ice, it didn't matter - the team was better.

 

[bizzz*]

I was thinking that with all the D-men we've got Murray could play for another year in the WHL, but now I see that he has nothing to do over there. So I've checked the CHL/AHL eligibility rules one more time - that's 20 years old OR 4 years of play in the CHL. I know that 4 years rule probably has never been used, but Murray actually took part in 4 WHL seasons now. In 2008-09 he played 5 playoffs games for Everette.

BTW here's the rule:

There is a private agreement in place between the NHL and the CHL that governs when a player coming from the CHL can play in the AHL. A player from the CHL has to either turn 20 by December 31st of the season (ie a player born in 1987 can start playing in the 2007-08 season, a player born in 1988 can start playing in the 2008-09 season etc.) OR have completed 4 seasons of junior eligibility.

Does it make Murray eligible to play in the AHL next season? Can anybody clarify that?

 

[JacketsFanWest]

Daniel Zaar made his pro debut in a preseason game with Rögle today. According to the liveblog of the match, he played on the 3rd line, got some PP time, made some good passes and was -3 for the night (a 5-3 loss).

The best part - the hockey season has started!

 

[Sore Loser]

I was thinking that with all the D-men we've got Murray could play for another year in the WHL, but now I see that he has nothing to do over there. So I've checked the CHL/AHL eligibility rules one more time - that's 20 years old OR 4 years of play in the CHL. I know that 4 years rule probably has never been used, but Murray actually took part in 4 WHL seasons now. In 2008-09 he played 5 playoffs games for Everette.

BTW here's the rule:

Does it make Murray eligible to play in the AHL next season? Can anybody clarify that?

It has to be four full seasons; the 15 year old stint doesn't count as a full season with the club, as his call-up was after his midget team's season was finished. Murray is not AHL eligible, and I don't feel that another year in the WHL would hurt his development.

For me, part of the reason the 2003 draft was so successful is the glut of players that were allowed another year of junior (or, in some cases, AHL) hockey. A guy like Ryan Getzlaf was sent back to Calgary, where he dominated that year alongside Andrew Ladd. Dominating kids the same age is not only good for morale, but is also a chance for them to show that they can play on a high level every night. These are the same kids that they'll face at the next level in many circumstances - if Murray can obliterate them in junior, why can't he do it at the next level?

Unless he cracks the top-4, I think he has to spend another year in the 'dub. But the Adrian Aucoin signing makes it obvious that he'll have every chance to make the team and have AA as his mentor.

 

[Sore Loser]

Canada Wins Summit Series

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/story/?id=403114

Canada won game four by a 4-2 margin; and then won the OT tiebreaker on a Ryan Strome goal. More to come tomorrow (when I have had some sleep )

 

[bizzz*]

It has to be four full seasons; the 15 year old stint doesn't count as a full season with the club, as his call-up was after his midget team's season was finished. Murray is not AHL eligible, and I don't feel that another year in the WHL would hurt his development.

For me, part of the reason the 2003 draft was so successful is the glut of players that were allowed another year of junior (or, in some cases, AHL) hockey. A guy like Ryan Getzlaf was sent back to Calgary, where he dominated that year alongside Andrew Ladd. Dominating kids the same age is not only good for morale, but is also a chance for them to show that they can play on a high level every night. These are the same kids that they'll face at the next level in many circumstances - if Murray can obliterate them in junior, why can't he do it at the next level?

Unless he cracks the top-4, I think he has to spend another year in the 'dub. But the Adrian Aucoin signing makes it obvious that he'll have every chance to make the team and have AA as his mentor.

Thanks for the clarification. But what was the purpose of the "4 seasons" point then No one plays in the CHL at 15 whole year.
I understand that a real talent won't get wasted in the WHL, but I think that's the step Murray'd want to skip. Too bad he wasn't born a year earlier, right now he has no place on the top-4. The only possibility I could see is moving Wiz to the 3rd pair.

 

[Viqsi]

Thanks for the clarification. But what was the purpose of the "4 seasons" point then No one plays in the CHL at 15 whole year.
I understand that a real talent won't get wasted in the WHL, but I think that's the step Murray'd want to skip. Too bad he wasn't born a year earlier, right now he has no place on the top-4. The only possibility I could see is moving Wiz to the 3rd pair.

Makes no sense to me unless the JMFJ-Wiz chemistry vanishes.

 

[Sore Loser]

Thanks for the clarification. But what was the purpose of the "4 seasons" point then No one plays in the CHL at 15 whole year.
I understand that a real talent won't get wasted in the WHL, but I think that's the step Murray'd want to skip. Too bad he wasn't born a year earlier, right now he has no place on the top-4. The only possibility I could see is moving Wiz to the 3rd pair.

If he were a year older, we would have never had the chance to select him

The only players that play in the CHL as 15 year olds are the guys granted "exceptional status". John Tavares and Connor McDavid being the most recent examples of that.

Jared Cowen played 6 regular season and 6 playoff games as a 15 year old for the Spokane Chiefs - 12 games in all - and wasn't eligible for this rule when Ottawa had to decide two years ago. The rules between the CHL/AHL/NCAA/NHL are all funky. It took me awhile to understand them completely, but in reality, they make sense. The reason for such rules is to prevent CHL teams from losing their top players just as they're starting to get exciting. A guy like Ryan Murray, or Jared Cowen, might end up in the AHL at 18 or 19, and thus the junior teams would then be stocked with 16 and 17 year olds (and under-talented 18-20 year olds) who would develop at a slower pace due to this fact. It would be like watching high school hockey.

The NCAA affords players to play in the AHL at 18 or 19 if they so choose, as long as they don't go the CHL route at all. A good example of this is John Carlson from Washington's system, who played in the AHL before winning gold at the WJCs, and then went back to the AHL afterwards.

The options are there for them, but it's tough because they have to decide at 15 or 16 years old where they want to be for the next 4-6 years of their lives.

 

[blahblah]

Yeah, I know why they are forcing these rules. It doesn't mean they make sense for the individual. These are far more complex issues that simply stating "Well he can always go down the NCAA route".