Carter-Toffoli

[tomd]

ok so... what is your suggestion? which players should go and who should stay?

I don't know and it would be foolish of me to guess. It's clear to all of us that there is some real dysfunction on the team...many players seem fat and happy and truly unmotivated. I guess Blake and Co. have to identify the worst offenders and TRY to get them off the team (probably for pennies on the dollar). Something is very wrong with this team and it isn't just a lack of talent. Trading Pearson sent a first message. Not sure who would be the second message. Maybe Toffoli. Maybe Muzzin. I doubt it is Martinez since he seems to be one of the few who shows any emotion or fire. Carter is probably still feeling the effects of last year's surgery and will likely be better in the second half. I think he is a GREAT mentor for guys like Kupari, Vilardi, and JAD when they are ready.

 

[riznat]

I don't know and it would be foolish of me to guess. It's clear to all of us that there is some real dysfunction on the team...many players seem fat and happy and truly unmotivated. I guess Blake and Co. have to identify the worst offenders and TRY to get them off the team (probably for pennies on the dollar). Something is very wrong with this team and it isn't just a lack of talent. Trading Pearson sent a first message. Not sure who would be the second message. Maybe Toffoli. Maybe Muzzin. I doubt it is Martinez since he seems to be one of the few who shows any emotion or fire. Carter is probably still feeling the effects of last year's surgery and will likely be better in the second half. I think he is a GREAT mentor for guys like Kupari, Vilardi, and JAD when they are ready.

Fair enough, i respect you giving a thoughtful answer but really there isn't anything there. You may not agree with trading bigger players to try to fix this situation but its at least a real stance. I would say trade everyone not including Doughty, Brown, Martinez, Petersen and Kempe (weird i know, but i think he could be a valuable cheap player for awhile). I sort of include Kopitar in that group, i think if he wasnt captain i would value him more but as captain he is really a huge let down. Lets say I include him for the sake of argument.

I would then trade Muzzin, Quick, Carter, Forbort, Toffoli, Lewis, etc... Would be worse before we got better? Honestly, im not so sure, we are in last place, how much worse could we be?... we dont have to gut the team for picks only, we could get some younge talented NHLers or prospects ready to make the jump, making us better in a year or two rather than 3-5 years. Its a gamble but i think that side of the argument is just as fair as saying Blake should be very modest and only trade fringe/outside players and keep a core that has grown MUCH to large IMO.

I wonder... if Seattle assembled a team of all KHL/AHL/Swedish/Finish leaguers would they actually be in last place and worse then the current kings? I think they wouldnt... The team is way to complacent.

 

[Winger23]

Here is my recommendation for the fans...take a chill pill. Blake and Co. are not going to gut this team!! They are not going to roll with a center corp of Kopitar-Amadio-Kempe-whomever. They are not going to ruin guys like Kupari, Vilardi, and JAD by rushing them into top 6 roles as teenagers. They are not going to waste the best remaining years of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Brown, and (probably) Carter by being a bottom dweller for the foreseeable future. Pittsburgh isn't doing it nor is Chicago. The Kings will make changes around the edges and try to get better that way. They'll keep the picks they have and try to improve that way. They'll selectively try to unload veterans and try to improve that way. But they WON'T dump everyone but Doughty and start over. You guys are crazy if you think they will.

So in your mind the kings should become the Oilers. Stay the course and do little to nothing to fix the core that's broken.

 

[KINGS17]

Here is my recommendation for the fans...take a chill pill. Blake and Co. are not going to gut this team!! They are not going to roll with a center corp of Kopitar-Amadio-Kempe-whomever. They are not going to ruin guys like Kupari, Vilardi, and JAD by rushing them into top 6 roles as teenagers. They are not going to waste the best remaining years of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Brown, and (probably) Carter by being a bottom dweller for the foreseeable future. Pittsburgh isn't doing it nor is Chicago. The Kings will make changes around the edges and try to get better that way. They'll keep the picks they have and try to improve that way. They'll selectively try to unload veterans and try to improve that way. But they WON'T dump everyone but Doughty and start over. You guys are crazy if you think they will.

...and fail miserably.
They need to move Carter while he still has value. In fact, Blake needs to move any asset which has value for a limited time. This team will not be better than a black hole team for the next 3 seasons, and it will be longer than this if they don't start acquiring assets hitting their prime in 3-4 seasons.

The Kings can trade Carter, pick up much needed assets for him, and look to free agency in the off season for a player similar to Carter. The only thing to be careful of in this case is keeping the term reasonable. These players would all be acceptable replacements on say three year deals.

Pavelski - probably can't pry him out of San Jose, but nice to dream
Kevin Hayes
Brock Nelson
Anders Lee
Eric Staal

These are just some ideas. Whoever it might be would simply be a bridge player providing veteran leadership. As with Handzus back in the day, the Kings would have to overpay a bit, but it doesn't matter as long as the term isn't more than 3 years.

 

[tomd]

Fair enough, i respect you giving a thoughtful answer but really there isn't anything there. You may not agree with trading bigger players to try to fix this situation but its at least a real stance. I would say trade everyone not including Doughty, Brown, Martinez, Petersen and Kempe (weird i know, but i think he could be a valuable cheap player for awhile). I sort of include Kopitar in that group, i think if he wasnt captain i would value him more but as captain he is really a huge let down. Lets say I include him for the sake of argument.

I would then trade Muzzin, Quick, Carter, Forbort, Toffoli, Lewis, etc... Would be worse before we got better? Honestly, im not so sure, we are in last place, how much worse could we be?... we dont have to gut the team for picks only, we could get some younge talented NHLers or prospects ready to make the jump, making us better in a year or two rather than 3-5 years. Its a gamble but i think that side of the argument is just as fair as saying Blake should be very modest and only trade fringe/outside players and keep a core that has grown MUCH to large IMO.

I wonder... if Seattle assembled a team of all KHL/AHL/Swedish/Finish leaguers would they actually be in last place and worse then the current kings? I think they wouldnt... The team is way to complacent.

Respect your position as well but I'm just cautioning you that it is very unlikely to happen. You are going to be one frustrated fan by the end of the year. Now, if they fire Blake I'll believe that they are ready to do a total rebuild. Personally, I would be terrified of a total rebuild with Blake/Luc leading it. I have no faith in either one of them.

 

[lumbergh]

There's a good chance that Carter never regains his pre-injury productivity at this point. Teams are always looking for former Cup winners like Carter around the deadline, so I think that's the time to contemplate a Carter trade.

Not really sure what's going on with Toffoli.

 

[Reaper45]

Here is my recommendation for the fans...take a chill pill. Blake and Co. are not going to gut this team!! They are not going to roll with a center corp of Kopitar-Amadio-Kempe-whomever. They are not going to ruin guys like Kupari, Vilardi, and JAD by rushing them into top 6 roles as teenagers. They are not going to waste the best remaining years of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Brown, and (probably) Carter by being a bottom dweller for the foreseeable future. Pittsburgh isn't doing it nor is Chicago. The Kings will make changes around the edges and try to get better that way. They'll keep the picks they have and try to improve that way. They'll selectively try to unload veterans and try to improve that way. But they WON'T dump everyone but Doughty and start over. You guys are crazy if you think they will.

True, but they can trade Carter to get assets and cut costs AND sign a lesser center as a placeholder. You dont need to trade Carter and go scorched Earth.

 

[KINGS17]

Respect your position as well but I'm just cautioning you that it is very unlikely to happen. You are going to be one frustrated fan by the end of the year. Now, if they fire Blake I'll believe that they are ready to do a total rebuild. Personally, I would be terrified of a total rebuild with Blake/Luc leading it. I have no faith in either one of them.

I know your position tom from our PMs. You are thinking Robitaille and Blake are going to fail in any case. I tend to agree as I have no faith in Robitaille.

 

[tomd]

There's a good chance that Carter never regains his pre-injury productivity at this point. Teams are always looking for former Cup winners like Carter around the deadline, so I think that's the time to contemplate a Carter trade.

Not really sure what's going on with Toffoli.

You'd actually better hope Carter starts playing much better pretty soon. If he doesn't, the Kings will be lucky to get a 2nd for him. Injuries, age, and 3 years left on contract is not a winning combination. His Cup experience won't mean much if he can't play anymore.

 

[kingsfan28]

Well Robitaille said the Kings are contenders. Having met both of these guys I tend to believe Blake may be under some constraints that are not commonly known.

They were a playoff team for sure, very similar to last years team and anything can happen once your in. Nobody could've seen the implosion that has happened since training camp, especially on defense. You don't go from the best defense to one of the worst just like that. All I can come up with is it's just a bad year, nothing more. The team has issues, yes, but not to this degree where EVERYBODY has sucked.

 

[KINGS17]

They were a playoff team for sure, very similar to last years team and anything can happen once your in. Nobody could've seen the implosion that has happened since training camp, especially on defense. You don't go from the best defense to one of the worst just like that. All I can come up with is it's just a bad year, nothing more. The team has issues, yes, but not to this degree where EVERYBODY has sucked.

How many times did we here this before Lombardi came on the scene and finally did something different?

 

[kingsfan28]

I don't think WD was brought in the revive this team. The team just need a good kick in the butt type of coach. I doubt WD will be with this team past 2020. I am okay keeping him on board next season as well just to keep players accountable. We won't be competing for the playoffs or the cup next year anyways.

20 min after the final game, Blake will tell WD thank you, and wish him luck with his next team.

 

[kingsfan28]

How many times did we here this before Lombardi came on the scene and finally did something different?

I don't really remember. Lombardi had much less to work with. There's waaaaay too much talent now to be this bad. Lombardi had Kopitar and Brown to start with, and a worthless JR who was more concerned with his acting career than playing hockey. The room was completely divided lead by JR, Conroy and a bunch of other bums. This is not the case now.

 

[kingsfan28]

...and fail miserably.
They need to move Carter while he still has value. In fact, Blake needs to move any asset which has value for a limited time. This team will not be better than a black hole team for the next 3 seasons, and it will be longer than this if they don't start acquiring assets hitting their prime in 3-4 seasons.

The Kings can trade Carter, pick up much needed assets for him, and look to free agency in the off season for a player similar to Carter. The only thing to be careful of in this case is keeping the term reasonable. These players would all be acceptable replacements on say three year deals.

Pavelski - probably can't pry him out of San Jose, but nice to dream
Kevin Hayes
Brock Nelson
Anders Lee
Eric Staal

These are just some ideas. Whoever it might be would simply be a bridge player providing veteran leadership. As with Handzus back in the day, the Kings would have to overpay a bit, but it doesn't matter as long as the term isn't more than 3 years.

Find me a good 2c for under 5 mil willing to sign for only 3 years and see who you get. My guess is you gonna find crap. None of those guys listed will do that. I'd wait another season to see how Carters ankle is before thinking about moving him. I bet he's still not 100 pct.

 

[KINGS17]

I don't really remember. Lombardi had much less to work with. There's waaaaay too much talent now to be this bad. Lombardi had Kopitar and Brown to start with, and a worthless JR who was more concerned with his acting career than playing hockey. The room was completely divided lead by JR, Conroy and a bunch of other bums. This is not the case now.

Well, let me tell you. Really long time Kings fans have heard the "just into the playoffs and anything can happen" shtick from the Kings for many years before Lombardi showed up. It's the kind of approach that led to trading away the team's draft picks and prospects always hoping to catch lightning in a bottle with some fading star.

Find me a good 2c for under 5 mil willing to sign for only 3 years and see who you get. My guess is you gonna find crap. None of those guys listed will do that. I'd wait another season to see how Carters ankle is before thinking about moving him. I bet he's still not 100 pct.

I don't need to find a good one, just one with character willing to move to LA. Carter stays and the Kings are still no better than the black hole. Carter goes and the Kings get something of value for him and are still in the black hole. I'll take door number 2.

 

[Fishhead]

Find me a good 2c for under 5 mil willing to sign for only 3 years and see who you get. My guess is you gonna find crap. None of those guys listed will do that. I'd wait another season to see how Carters ankle is before thinking about moving him. I bet he's still not 100 pct.

If I moved Carter I would not replace him. The Kings really don't need a 2C right now anyways, they need a 2C that's good in 3 or so years. Put Kempe, Vilardi, a top draft pick, whoever there for the time being. What's the worst thing that could happen? Last place? The horror

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Kings need another Bernie Nicholls for Tony Granato and Tomas Sandstrom type of exchange involving Jeff Carter.

If only Boston gave up Jake DeBrusk and Danton Heinen for Jeff Carter...

 

[Herby]

I think it's time to put to rest any idea that this is in any way a talented roster. It's simply not.

This is a five year sample size with now three different head coaches, multiple different assistant coaches and two GM's and the results have been horrible. Even with the two best players both having elite MVP caliber seasons it still produced squat last year. The key secondary sources have either gotten old (Carter), never improved (TT, Pearson) or just regressed considerably (Muzzin). And the lower level guys have all been largely terrible, as has been the case for the previous four seasons most of these guys are fringe NHL'ers at best.

 

[AbsentMojo]

There is no rush to move Crater, i mean Carter. He needs to be shopped and hopefully will get going soon so they can maximize the return - but prob not before deadline will that happen. I would like to see Vilardi move into that spot this year if Carter is traded. Also would like them to keep losing to keep top waiver priority and pick up other prospects for a low risk tryout during this season. And - continue tanking toward a top 3 pick.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Tyler Toffoli although he does put up some points because he has a nice release, is an absolutely awful hockey player in every other way. Hopefully his stats will tickle the fancy of a desperate GM looking for more scoring. I could see him have a good playoff run then go back to mailing it in wherever he goes.

 

[deaderhead28]

If you trade Carter who do we have currantly on the roster to take over 2C? Toffoli will most likely be moved at the deadline if Blake can find the right deal. Let's see how good Valardi is once he plays in the NHL first before dealing Carter. By some chance if we draft Hughes then I'd be open to trading Carter in the offseason. Until we find out how good Valardi is then I think we need to hold off trading Carter.

Omg common sense has presented itself.

 

[deaderhead28]

Here is my recommendation for the fans...take a chill pill. Blake and Co. are not going to gut this team!! They are not going to roll with a center corp of Kopitar-Amadio-Kempe-whomever. They are not going to ruin guys like Kupari, Vilardi, and JAD by rushing them into top 6 roles as teenagers. They are not going to waste the best remaining years of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, Brown, and (probably) Carter by being a bottom dweller for the foreseeable future. Pittsburgh isn't doing it nor is Chicago. The Kings will make changes around the edges and try to get better that way. They'll keep the picks they have and try to improve that way. They'll selectively try to unload veterans and try to improve that way. But they WON'T dump everyone but Doughty and start over. You guys are crazy if you think they will.

Omg another well thought out post and sign of a common sense post.

 

[KINGS17]

I find it humorous when the Kings are DFL in the NHL people are concerned about who will be the 2C if Carter is moved on in a trade. This coming from a fan base that saw Derek Armstrong play as a 1C, and in the really good years (not really) the Kings had Stumpel as the 1C and Smolinski as the the 2C. The Kings can be in DFL just as easily as they are now if they replace Carter with a vet looking for a contract.

 

[Legionnaire]

Easy, Nate Thompson.

Etan Thompson.

 

[Legionnaire]

...and fail miserably.
They need to move Carter while he still has value. In fact, Blake needs to move any asset which has value for a limited time. This team will not be better than a black hole team for the next 3 seasons, and it will be longer than this if they don't start acquiring assets hitting their prime in 3-4 seasons.

The Kings can trade Carter, pick up much needed assets for him, and look to free agency in the off season for a player similar to Carter. The only thing to be careful of in this case is keeping the term reasonable. These players would all be acceptable replacements on say three year deals.

Pavelski - probably can't pry him out of San Jose, but nice to dream
Kevin Hayes
Brock Nelson
Anders Lee
Eric Staal

These are just some ideas. Whoever it might be would simply be a bridge player providing veteran leadership. As with Handzus back in the day, the Kings would have to overpay a bit, but it doesn't matter as long as the term isn't more than 3 years.

Lol. Yes. They would. Which is exactly why a team wouldn't trade for Carter.

None of those guys fit. If/when Carter goes it needs to be for youth.