Confirmed with Link: Carter Hart Officially Charged With One Count Of Sexual Assault (Per His Lawyers); Non-roster, salary cap info in OP

[ponder719]

The players who saw what was happening, or what was going to happen, & removed themselves from the situation without participating, did the right thing IMO.

They certainly did a better thing than players #1-5, no question, but the right thing would have been to get the girl out of there using whatever means they had at their disposal.

It's entirely possible that they wouldn't have been able to get her out of there under any circumstances, but let's not overestimate the less bad thing they opted to do, when that less bad thing still let a terrible thing happen.

 

[mercury]

Some of the rumors of what allegedly may of went down, does consent even matter ?

There is some vile and sick stuff being mentioned.

Always.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He put up 32 points in 79 games in his first full NHL season as a 22 year old. He had pedigree as a prospect as well. So that’s generally not someone a team gives up on right then & there.

He was drafted in the second round of the 2017 draft.

That was his entire time in the Ottawa organization before going to Switzerland. That’s simply not a profile of a guy a team gives up on for hockey reasons. He was young, he was cheap, & he was passing baselines to keep him around. Even beyond the profile he was generally one of the fastest players on the ice on any given night which NHL talent evaluators generally don’t dismiss easily no matter what else is going on.

 

[mercury]

I'd be shocked if any of these players play in NHL again, or hockey anywhere, even if found innocent in court in the end. In fact, I don't know what occupational options will be made available to them no matter what....who would want to associate with them? Horrible look.

If they are found not guilty, there will be lawsuits left and right. They might never have to play again after settlements.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

See, I am skeptical of this statement, too. But I guess we are not supposed to be skeptical, right? Clearly, the Flames are to be believed, right?

Woof.

 

[mercury]

The NHL can claim regardless of verdict that these players partake in a lifestyle not accepted by organizations that cater to myriad youth fans.

Kappernick had more to go on about being reinstated, and got nowhere. These guys are done

My advice to them is to plead guilty, claim while committing the act it did not occur to them it was rape and that they honestly thought the girl was enjoying herself. But clearly upon reflection they made a terrible mistake as a teenager and are prepared to serve a sentence.

I think this route is their only option going frwd.

You want them to plead guilty while also claiming that they had no mens rea? How does that make sense?

Woof.

Woof yourself. There are some hardcore hypocrites and borderline loons in this board.

 

[mercury]

He isn't a court of law. He is under no such obligation. Ample evidence exists. You do not, as a regular person, have to assume someone is innocent until a court says otherwise. "Presumption of innocence" applies to how the government system will behave. It isn't a mandate upon the populace of a society, who are allowed to form whatever opinion they want with the information available.

Still a stupid way to live. The principle is there for a reason.

 

[mja]

If they are found not guilty, there will be lawsuits left and right. They might never have to play again after settlements.

See, this is the kind of shit that looks like a mere veneer of objectivity, like you have already decided which camp you’re in but are going to remain “neutral” so that you can try to claim some moral high ground. It’s a bad look.

My unsolicited advice: walk away from the thread. I know you feel strongly about the topic for personal reasons, but you’re not doing yourself or anyone else any favors with posts like this.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They certainly did a better thing than players #1-5, no question, but the right thing would have been to get the girl out of there using whatever means they had at their disposal.

It's entirely possible that they wouldn't have been able to get her out of there under any circumstances, but let's not overestimate the less bad thing they opted to do, when that less bad thing still let a terrible thing happen.

Hard to blame the players who left without knowing the circumstances at the time when they left.

You are assuming she was making clear when they left that there was no consent.

We don’t know that.

It’s possible it looked like consent, or that she gave consent, but that it didn’t feel right to them participating.

What seems immoral to you doesn’t mean you are wrong for not interfering with & stopping the behavior of what appears to be consenting adults.

 

[mercury]

They’re not going to be proven to be innocent. They may be found to be not guilty in a court of law but they won’t be innocent.

They cannot sue the NHL for “denying” them employment in that situation. The NHL and their member organizations can employee whoever they wish. Well, I guess, they could sue because you can sue for anything but it wouldn’t be a winning lawsuit.

Now could they file a suit against the alleged victim for loss of income in a situation where they were freed of all charges? Possibly. Or could they sue the teams if they terminate their contract? Possibly.

According to Westhead this may not go to trial until 2026 and by that time, IIRC, all of these players won’t be under contract anyway.

They could sue the NHL and individual franchises if they can establish collusion to keep them from making a living. They also could sue Hockey Canada and the accuser, of course.

 

[mercury]

See, this is the kind of shit that looks like a mere veneer of objectivity, like you have already decided which camp you’re in but are going to remain “neutral” so that you can try to claim some moral high ground. It’s a bad look.

My unsolicited advice: walk away from the thread. I know you feel strongly about the topic for personal reasons, but you’re not doing yourself or anyone else any favors with posts like this.

No, I won't. And that is the objective truth. Did you go to law school? Any lawyer with half a brain cell will have them sue the accuser and Hockey Canada at minimum. If they can prove any procedural mistakes or malfeasance on the part of law enforcement, they could sue them. They even could sue the NHL and teams if they are blackballed afterward. Maybe even the NHLPA if they could establish it failed to meet a duty of care. The NHLPA has a Universal Declaration of Players' Rights' that includes a Right to Work and the Right to be free of harassment.

You are factually incorrect. I think YOU should walk away from this thread, because you are embarrassing yourself.

 

[Magua]

If they are found not guilty, there will be lawsuits left and right. They might never have to play again after settlements.

“Stop rushing to judgments…..and here’s why I’m daydreaming the players making money after a 2029 lawsuit against the accuser (with probably no money).”

That’s not even how it works necessarily. You can be found not guilty, but as long as the alleged victim wasn’t proved to be lying or no miscarriages of justice were done, that doesn’t mean you have a presentable case. Especially in a situation where all parties agree that sex acts did happen. The accuser never went public either, if we are talking defamation or something.

 

[mercury]

You know what? I'll bite

Here are some facts of the case, and they are indisputable:

1. An intoxicated woman was coerced into doing something she was uncomfortable doing by strangers
2. This intoxicated woman was coerced by a large organization to stay quiet about the situation
3. Strangers coerced this intoxicated woman to appear in front of a camera
4. This intoxicated woman was put in this situation because another human broke her trust

Leaving ANYTHING explicit out of these parse details, you would probably agree that the person or persons responsible for making this intoxicated individual feel so uncomfortable and invalid are, frankly, pretty f***ing shitty. A human was manipulated into an uncomfortable situation by people who took advantage of her altered mind and perceptions.

Those people, regardless of their alleged crimes, are shitty. Innocent vs guilty at this point is just semantics. I know that sounds wild, but it is. It's semantics because even if in some alternate dimension these people didn't commit sexual crimes, they still acted in a f***ing shitty way to a helpless person. They deserve no respect from me, in fact, one of these people has truly fallen from my grace. They are shitty f***ing humans and they deserve shit shoveled upon them. Proverbially.

f*** these people. Period

Fact #5: I had a hell of a night at work

These aren't "facts." And "innocent vs. guilty at this point is just semantics" is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

I swear, this board is losing its collective mind.

I don't care.

This kind of ridiculous leeway with the level of information we have is only ever given to people who have assaulted women. Do with that information what you will. Again, nobody was writing this level of dissertation about threats to society over Lehtera's accusations or the cab drivers accusations against Kane. One wonders why.

Giving rapists the benefit of the doubt is very negative. I'm just being positive.

You are proving yourself to be the biggest POS on this board.

 

[kudymen]

Woof yourself. There are some hardcore hypocrites and borderline loons in this board.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I cannot even imagine what the hell is in this thread that I can't see, but it has the timbre of people talking past each other to some degree.

I think we can all agree that legal standards are and should be higher than those for dopey message board posts. If one side of a conversation is going by the former bar and the other the latter, it's just two people yelling for the sake of it.

I'm aware there are *Price is Right Showcase Arm Swoop* other things happening too. I'm just trying to find some common ground for the reasonable.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I long for the days of vivid shingles depictions.

 

[mercury]

You don’t spend millions of dollars in hush money in order to protect innocent men.

The extent to which it was aggravated sexual assault remains up for debate, but their careers are probably over.

This literally happens EVERY DAY. Are you serious?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

At least the post quota is going to be met this month.

 

[BillDineen]

We are going to need a GDT for the live police conference Monday!

 

[mercury]

One interesting other case in Canada was the Jian Gomeshi trial back in 2016.

Basically, he was accused by several women (six total, I believe) of sexual assault and one case of choking.

There were some actions to which the women consented, and some to which they didn't.

He was acquitted of all charges.

He was a prominent figure in Canadian media and broadcasting, and even though he was fully acquitted, he hasn't really recovered publicly.

I'm guessing even if the players are all acquitted, they will remain public pariahs. I still believe there's a non-zero chance that some GM out there signs one of them, unless of course the NHL outright bans them (or forces them to request reinstatement).

Here's the case if anyone is interested in reading.

Trial of Jian Ghomeshi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jiam Ghomeshi provided e-mail evidence that directly contradicted some of the claims against him.

Logged in after a few days. Of all the headlines to have expected...

Wat. I am not going to make this about the Flyers - this is just twisted and crazy in general

The number of posts along the lines of "We're cursed at goalie" is shocking.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Me after reading the last few pages

 

[DancingPanther]

Considering the many terrible incidents you have described, this doesn't sound good. Are you okay?

I'll be fine but I appreciate you checking in

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

None of these guys have contracts past this year. I fail to see really how they have any bit of leverage in a lawsuit against the NHL/their NHL teams. No sane person would invest money in people going through the legal process of serious allegations & ultimately those teams have no financial obligations past this year.

 

[freakydallas13]

 

[mercury]

“Stop rushing to judgments…..and here’s why I’m daydreaming the players making money after a 2029 lawsuit against the accuser (with probably no money).”

That’s not even how it works necessarily. You can be found not guilty, but as long as the alleged victim wasn’t proved to be lying or no miscarriages of justice were done, that doesn’t mean you have a presentable case. Especially in a situation where all parties agree that sex acts did happen. The accuser never went public either, if we are talking defamation or something.

Defamation is a tough standard, because you have to prove it was done intentionally and statements to police have a level of immunity. It would depend on statements she made to other civilians. You always can sue for intentional infliction of mental suffering, too. But the accuser will never have deeper pockets than Hockey Canada, the NHL, the teams, and the NHLPA.