Confirmed with Link: Carter Hart Officially Charged With One Count Of Sexual Assault (Per His Lawyers); Non-roster, salary cap info in OP

[Alex K]

What details can you possibly learn that justifies what we know? What part of the information we have has you think "oh I could be cool with that if I get more details"

I don't want to speculate about the details, because this situation is disgusting.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I didn’t take the positivity oath like you did.

I required one condition to be met in order to take the oath. The Flyers must trade one single player that didn’t clash with Torts or wanted out.

That is true, and I respect and appreciate your alternative perspective.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's perfectly possible to support due process and pass personal judgement based on we know. We are people, not courts.

Yup. And that’s what I said in my first sentence.

What loses me are those who shame anyone who wants to be more cautious in claiming people are 100% guilty of rape before the criminal process even begins.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yup. And that’s what I said in my first sentence.

What loses me are those who shame anyone who wants to be more cautious in claiming people are 100% guilty of rape before the criminal process even begins.

Shaming people isn't a positive behavior though.

 

[BillDineen]

 

[flyersnorth]

One interesting other case in Canada was the Jian Gomeshi trial back in 2016.

Basically, he was accused by several women (six total, I believe) of sexual assault and one case of choking.

There were some actions to which the women consented, and some to which they didn't.

He was acquitted of all charges.

He was a prominent figure in Canadian media and broadcasting, and even though he was fully acquitted, he hasn't really recovered publicly.

I'm guessing even if the players are all acquitted, they will remain public pariahs. I still believe there's a non-zero chance that some GM out there signs one of them, unless of course the NHL outright bans them (or forces them to request reinstatement).

Here's the case if anyone is interested in reading.

Trial of Jian Ghomeshi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[volnoir]

One interesting other case in Canada was the Jian Gomeshi trial back in 2016.

Basically, he was accused by several women (six total, I believe) of sexual assault and one case of choking.

There were some actions to which the women consented, and some to which they didn't.

He was acquitted of all charges.

He was a prominent figure in Canadian media and broadcasting, and even though he was fully acquitted, he hasn't really recovered publicly.

I'm guessing even if the players are all acquitted, they will remain public pariahs. I still believe there's a non-zero chance that some GM out there signs one of them, unless of course the NHL outright bans them (or forces them to request reinstatement).

Here's the case if anyone is interested in reading.

Trial of Jian Ghomeshi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He was also represented by Marie Henein who has a incredible talent for getting sex offenders off the hook. Look at her notable cases sheet:

Marie Henein - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

She was also hired by Hockey Canada in 2022 to do a private investigation on this incident.

 

[freakydallas13]

One interesting other case in Canada was the Jian Gomeshi trial back in 2016.

Basically, he was accused by several women (six total, I believe) of sexual assault and one case of choking.

There were some actions to which the women consented, and some to which they didn't.

He was acquitted of all charges.

He was a prominent figure in Canadian media and broadcasting, and even though he was fully acquitted, he hasn't really recovered publicly.

I'm guessing even if the players are all acquitted, they will remain public pariahs. I still believe there's a non-zero chance that some GM out there signs one of them, unless of course the NHL outright bans them (or forces them to request reinstatement).

Here's the case if anyone is interested in reading.

Trial of Jian Ghomeshi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We all know that if a GM is going to gamble on any of the 5 charged, it's going to be Hart. He was the best player of the group.

 

[kudymen]

Logged in after a few days. Of all the headlines to have expected...

Wat. I am not going to make this about the Flyers - this is just twisted and crazy in general

 

[Larry44]

One interesting other case in Canada was the Jian Gomeshi trial back in 2016.

Basically, he was accused by several women (six total, I believe) of sexual assault and one case of choking.

There were some actions to which the women consented, and some to which they didn't.

He was acquitted of all charges.

He was a prominent figure in Canadian media and broadcasting, and even though he was fully acquitted, he hasn't really recovered publicly.

I'm guessing even if the players are all acquitted, they will remain public pariahs. I still believe there's a non-zero chance that some GM out there signs one of them, unless of course the NHL outright bans them (or forces them to request reinstatement).

Here's the case if anyone is interested in reading.

Trial of Jian Ghomeshi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Regardless of the outcome of the trial, it was pretty well established that Gomeshi is jerk, so there was no media outlet willing to put him in an office with their female employees. I don't know what will happen in this case but it's going to be nasty, and no one is going to be happy with the outcome.

 

[mja]

Yup. And that’s what I said in my first sentence.

What loses me are those who shame anyone who wants to be more cautious in claiming people are 100% guilty of rape before the criminal process even begins.

The issue being that some of the folks who say they just want to be more cautious have actually already made up their minds and are just hiding behind a thin veil of caution. Those folks always call themselves out though, because they're peculiarly focused on the plight of the alleged perpetrators and the ramifications on their lives, rather than that of the presumed victim, and actively disregard everything we know about sexual assault, etc. It's downright creepy, and the impression I always get is that their reaction is actually them getting defensive about their own possible past misdeeds, which makes it even creepier.

I think it's eminently fair to want to keep an open mind to an extent. False accusations, though rare, do occur for a variety of reasons, including cases of mistaken identity. But there’s a way to do that, and a way not to if you don’t want others to presume the worst about you.

 

[trostol]

why do i feel like if Carter wasnt Player 1 then I feel like he had to be coerced into doing it..like they peer pressured him..called him names if he didn't..that sort of thing...

Either way...he's now out of sight out of mind

 

[macleish1974]

When I lived on the MD Eastern Shore, MD passed a law, piss on your lawn, get caught, you go on the sex offender registery for 7 years. Stopped drinking beer, starting drinking Scotch.

Carter maybe legally in limbo, but sure as hell, morally he is not a man I would want around my granddaughter If. he did that shit to my granddaughter , he would be a dead man.

Remember this girl is the victim, not Carter.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

The issue being that some of the folks who say they just want to be more cautious have actually already made up their minds and are just hiding behind a thin veil of caution. Those folks always call themselves out though, because they're peculiarly focused on the plight of the alleged perpetrators and the ramifications on their lives, rather than that of the presumed victim, and actively disregard everything we know about sexual assault, etc. It's downright creepy, and the impression I always get is that their reaction is actually them getting defensive about their own possible past misdeeds, which makes it even creepier.

I think it's eminently fair to want to keep an open mind to an extent. False accusations, though rare, do occur for a variety of reasons, including cases of mistaken identity. But there’s a way to do that, and a way not to if you don’t want others to presume the worst about you.

Exactly this. And it is weird like you say you never hear those people worry about rushing to the defense of a rapist and somehow waiting to see what happens has nothing to do with whether or not they believe the person. That isn't an issue it is always ok to them to "wait and see what happens" just to make sure we don't ruin their reputation, but waiting to see what happens has impacts on the victim and future victims. It's like people that talk politics who say "I'm an independent" then only ever vote for one party or on an issue say "to play devil's advocate" and then it is always in defense of some shitty position defending racism or transphobia or whatever. Coincidentally in my experience these people are one and the same.

Things develop and change along the way in any investigation for any crime, but you don't really hear people running to the defense of someone accused of carjacking the same way you do for people accused for sexual assault, which again when you are only concerned with trying to poke a hole in the victim's story, that is defending the person accused of sexual assault. I have never discussed a carjacking with anyone anywhere where anyone said anything along the lines of:

-Why were they out so late?
-Why were they in that neck of the woods?
-How do we know they didn't give their permission to take the car?
-Why were they talking to them in the first place?
-Did they insinuate it was ok to take the car?
-What if they are just trying to get insurance money?

 

[BernieParent]

Home dog, I just had the shittiest night at work. Don't test me

Considering the many terrible incidents you have described, this doesn't sound good. Are you okay?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I don’t know what happened.

I do know the situation as reported so far sounds sketchy as hell.

The players who saw what was happening, or what was going to happen, & removed themselves from the situation without participating, did the right thing IMO.

I certainly don’t blame anyone for being disgusted.

I’m in the camp where I say this looks bad, but since false allegations *do* occasionally happen, & have happened in cases were people were fast to jump to conclusions, I’m going to give them a chance to tell their sides of the story before I incontrovertibly label the rapists.

I’m not defending them by any means. But I will let them try to defend themselves.

 

[mercury]

Listen, as I said before, it really sucks that this happened to you. But you need to understand that this is the exception not the rule. Even your stats that you posted earlier are 100% accurate and it is 2-10 percent of all allegations are completely fabricated...that is still the vast vast vast minority. There is nothing immoral about looking at what information there is and making a determination and opinion. That's literally how we for opinions. Very rarely do you have all the information about any subject.

And "being skeptical" means you don't believe it. It's literally in the definition.

View attachment 812897

If you don't believe them, that is fine. You don't have to and you have a very different background than most people do. You are under no obligation to believe anyone about anything and you may be 100% correct this person could have fabricated the whole thing. But looking at all the information we have and saying you can't form an opinion because you need to see it play out in court or whatever information you need to form an opinion isn't there, is forming an opinion: you don't believe the victim. That type of attitude is the exact reason these things are under reported and under prosecuted.

"Listen, as I said before, it really sucks that this happened to you. But you need to understand that this is the exception not the rule. Even your stats that you posted earlier are 100% accurate and it is 2-10 percent of all allegations are completely fabricated...that is still the vast vast vast minority. There is nothing immoral about looking at what information there is and making a determination and opinion. That's literally how we for opinions. Very rarely do you have all the information about any subject."

Again, you are wrong. Let me break it down for you:

1) Something that happens maybe 5,000 times a year in this country is not something you can dismiss. Think about how people feel about mass shootings. Now imagine they were happening not once or twice a day, but 10-12 times a day.

2) Skepticism doesn't mean I don't believe something happen; it means I don't believe an unverified claim. I am skeptical of the accuser. I also am skeptical of Carter Hart, who, via his attorneys, has claimed innocence. We do not know yet exactly what happened. If you think you do, that is your being credulous.

3)

There is nothing immoral about looking at what information there is and making a determination and opinion. That's literally how we for opinions. Very rarely do you have all the information about any subject.

Then you feel WAY too comfortable forming opinions about things of which you are not informed well. I would be mortified if I went around opining about important issues and was ignorant of them. Maybe you feel differently.

4)

That type of attitude is the exact reason these things are under reported and under prosecuted.

The word that best describes this mentality will get me a temporary ban, so I won't type it.

Do you believe in God?

I don’t know what happened.

I do know the situation as reported so far sounds sketchy as hell.

The players who saw what was happening, or what was going to happen, & removed themselves from the situation without participating, did the right thing IMO.

I certainly don’t blame anyone for being disgusted.

I’m in the camp where I say this looks bad, but since false allegations *do* occasionally happen, & have happened in cases were people were fast to jump to conclusions, I’m going to give them a chance to tell their sides of the story before I incontrovertibly label the rapists.

I’m not defending them by any means. But I will let them try to defend themselves.

"I am suspending judgment until this plays out in court" is somehow a controversial topic in this board, which is psychotic.

Not that it doesn’t matter, but the West would be a much better place if the plebs faced concrete issues that pertain to their daily lives, and quality of life - with the same vigor.

Alas

???

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

TSN is the one doing most of the heavy reporting on this case. I just fail to see how they benefit in that sense of shifting a potential outcome? They get the same amount of people watching their tv stations or visiting their website with this story in their minds regardless of the outcome.

 

[mercury]

Hmmmm.


I hope you understand that your current strident anti-victim, pro-rapist stances aren't going to age well. There is nothing hasty about this. A microscope will be on everything. If charges are being brought, and it's taken this long, it's because the people investigating have been thorough and made sure because they know what they're digging into is going to be maximum controversy. Their careers will be on the line and they almost certainly know that.


Just because some women have lied does not make it reasonable to assume all are. We are not a court. We can look at what's out there and judge for ourselves. We here do not have to assume innocence. We are not jurors in a court of law. Refusing to do so in defense of the perpetrators when everything is pointing to badness is quite a bad idea. It will age poorly.


And again, we are not going to wage war upon rape reports here. Keep it on this case alone. Don't bring up any other situation because it has nothing to do with the facts here. Nothing that happened to you or to anyone else has anything to with with what has happened with this woman and the people accused. We aren't going to do the misogyny thing.

It will age like fine wine, because I am right. I am frankly disgusted with some of the people on this board. You are just dead wrong, man. And there is nothing, NOTHING "misogynistic" about reserving judgment until the evidence is hashed out in a court of law.

Shame on you.

 

[BritainStix]

"you'll ruin their lives!?" sobs the guy who only recently insisted nobody reads this place because of me specifically. This is hilarious to me.

Do I have the power to ruin lives by what I say here about a criminal case in another f***ing country, pertaining to people whose employ I don't control? Or am I an insignificant blip that nobody notices on purpose?

I bet the truth is closer to the latter!

Lets dispell some of the nonsense you have spouted. If Carter Hart is guilty, I hope his career is over, he's bankrupted and spends a significant proportion of his life in jail. That doesn't even come close to absolving him or the other 5 of the crime they would have committed. In my opinion, sexual assault is the worst crime a human can inflict upon another.

Now thats out of the way(not that it should ever have had to be stated) , I'll wait until the details are made available to the public to base a personal decision before joining the witch hunt.

You don't know the facts, you have absolutely no idea what happened until ALL the facts are released to the public domain. You're just another clueless loud torch bearer in a mob accusing people of being rapist sympathisers for following standard decorum. It's disgusting, insulting and f***ing disgraceful.

No one here is championing for Carter Hart, or any of the other players on this charge for that matter. I hate to speak for others, but there isn't a single person that doesn't want to see those 5 punished to the full extent of the law and further if what they have been ACCUSED of is found to be true, if there is, I hope they are banned and socially outed immediately.

However, lets make something absolutely clear. Make an abstract reference to me being a rapist sympathiser again, and we'll see another libel case presented to you.

 

[mercury]

The defense of players will include:

1- The consent video
2- Saying the crying in the shower when her mother found her was her embarrassment for what she accepted to do/regret for the consensual acts she engaged in
3- She pressed charges on the urging of her mother and filed the civil suit
4- Hockey Canada settled to make it go away
5- London Police did not press charges initially

Even if they are guilty, which seems most likely, good lawyers can get them off. That was the point I was trying to make

You have no idea if the last bullet point is true.

Yup a good realization and reminder that we don’t really know these people, sure I believe people I know around FTC/Voorhees when they have told me Hart is a nice guy and great with young players he meets, but you just never know what they do or are like away from rink. It sucks. Just terrible

Nice people can be sexual predators. Assholes can be victims of false accusations. None of that matters. I want the evidence.

 

[mercury]

Pretty sure that is Formenton, which is why he fled to Switzerland.

I thought he went to Switzerland because was set to be a career AHL'er here.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I thought he went to Switzerland because was set to be a career AHL'er here.

He put up 32 points in 79 games in his first full NHL season as a 22 year old. He had pedigree as a prospect as well. So that’s generally not someone a team gives up on right then & there.

 

[Magua]

It’s absolutely batshit crazy to me that people on the internet have opinions about a case that has been thoroughly reported on for years. If anyone even has a thought about this case until 2026, Lady Justice will come for you like Michael Myers.

 

[mercury]

Sure, Jan.

Very lawyeresque statement here. They may not have known that charges were imminently coming but no shot they didn't know they were on the horizon.



View attachment 812978

See, I am skeptical of this statement, too. But I guess we are not supposed to be skeptical, right? Clearly, the Flames are to be believed, right?