BrindamoursNose
Registered User
- Oct 14, 2008
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Confirmed with Link: Carter Hart Officially Charged With One Count Of Sexual Assault (Per His Lawyers); Non-roster, salary cap info in OP
- Thread starter SnS
- Start date
Yeah, I'm guilty of disagreeing with some people. Forgive my sins father.
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
The details have been revealed. That's what we're basing our thoughts off of and it doesn't look good. The defense team can change our thoughts. Our stances are not set in stone. We are not judge, nor jury, nor executioner.
All we've heard from the defense to this point is "they didn't do it" and they thought it was a good idea to play those weird "consent" videos which, to me, was a baffling decision.
BrindamoursNose
Registered User
- Oct 14, 2008
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Okay Alex K (if that's your *real* name) from Earth who limits who can see their profile.
Audible Velvet
Registered User
Don’t underestimate how low these organizations And individuals will stoop
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
freakydallas13
Registered User
"Innocent until proven guilty" bros always come off as creepy.
flyersnorth
Registered User
- Oct 7, 2019
- 4,688
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I'd wager there's a non-zero chance that some organization at some point signs one of these players.
Rich greedy owners can't help themselves. Money is more important than principles.
DancingPanther
Foundational Titan
- Jun 19, 2018
- 33,976
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You know what? I'll bite
Here are some facts of the case, and they are indisputable:
1. An intoxicated woman was coerced into doing something she was uncomfortable doing by strangers
2. This intoxicated woman was coerced by a large organization to stay quiet about the situation
3. Strangers coerced this intoxicated woman to appear in front of a camera
4. This intoxicated woman was put in this situation because another human broke her trust
Leaving ANYTHING explicit out of these parse details, you would probably agree that the person or persons responsible for making this intoxicated individual feel so uncomfortable and invalid are, frankly, pretty f***ing shitty. A human was manipulated into an uncomfortable situation by people who took advantage of her altered mind and perceptions.
Those people, regardless of their alleged crimes, are shitty. Innocent vs guilty at this point is just semantics. I know that sounds wild, but it is. It's semantics because even if in some alternate dimension these people didn't commit sexual crimes, they still acted in a f***ing shitty way to a helpless person. They deserve no respect from me, in fact, one of these people has truly fallen from my grace. They are shitty f***ing humans and they deserve shit shoveled upon them. Proverbially.
f*** these people. Period
Fact #5: I had a hell of a night at work
Audible Velvet
Registered User
Look at the established culture and practices. Look at the fact that they had millions put away for hush money. Lookat other entitled individuals from other sports And the behaviors that get excused by society for reasons. Look at the f***ing Blackhawks! Yep, wouldn’t be surprising in the least
More of this zero tolerance approach would probably go a ling way in curing this sickness
marcsson68
Registered User
- Jan 23, 2018
- 447
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When I read this thread I remember when I was still studying law and taking part in workshops about specific topics of criminal law.
- Topic 1 was sth like "Do penalties, prisons etc. make any sense of all?" and there was a group of (politically speaking far left) students who made their point that penalties / criminal law / prisons don´t make sense at all ("No one ever became a better person in jail." "Most crimes are linked to a bad childhood" etc.). I think you get the idea.
- Topic 7 were sexual crimes. The same students had no problems to demand penalties that cannot be said or written here...
Do you see the contradiction? It just happened to come up to my mind when I read some of the heated posts here.
I do have a first impression that the accusation will stand the test of a lawsuit here (due to the many people involved), but I still recommend not to be too easy about prejudices. It is always tough to find out the truth years after the incident. Certainly if half of the accusations are true, those players´ careers should be over. And of course everyone should feel for a girl that was (ab)used. Actually nothing can be done to fully compensate such crimes.
But there is a thin line between a drunken night after which you regret your own (if applicable shameful) behaviour and a strong criminal case. My impression is that it is not clear yet if this case is on the dark side of this line and especially not how far.
In Germany we had at least two spectecular cases with alleged sexual crimes by V.I.P´s. "Hang them" was the public preoccupation. But innocence was proven and the careers of those two men were over anyway.
Even if you don´t like it: Just because someone threatens or begs you to remain silent about the incident or evens gives you money for it, doesn´t prove any guilt. What would you do, if someone made up or exaggerated a story about you being in that position?
- Topic 1 was sth like "Do penalties, prisons etc. make any sense of all?" and there was a group of (politically speaking far left) students who made their point that penalties / criminal law / prisons don´t make sense at all ("No one ever became a better person in jail." "Most crimes are linked to a bad childhood" etc.). I think you get the idea.
- Topic 7 were sexual crimes. The same students had no problems to demand penalties that cannot be said or written here...
Do you see the contradiction? It just happened to come up to my mind when I read some of the heated posts here.
I do have a first impression that the accusation will stand the test of a lawsuit here (due to the many people involved), but I still recommend not to be too easy about prejudices. It is always tough to find out the truth years after the incident. Certainly if half of the accusations are true, those players´ careers should be over. And of course everyone should feel for a girl that was (ab)used. Actually nothing can be done to fully compensate such crimes.
But there is a thin line between a drunken night after which you regret your own (if applicable shameful) behaviour and a strong criminal case. My impression is that it is not clear yet if this case is on the dark side of this line and especially not how far.
In Germany we had at least two spectecular cases with alleged sexual crimes by V.I.P´s. "Hang them" was the public preoccupation. But innocence was proven and the careers of those two men were over anyway.
Even if you don´t like it: Just because someone threatens or begs you to remain silent about the incident or evens gives you money for it, doesn´t prove any guilt. What would you do, if someone made up or exaggerated a story about you being in that position?
Nizzle
no hope, no future, no second chance
- May 13, 2009
- 2,268
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This anecdote of far left students in workshops really opened my eyes
MayonnaiseOreo
Undiagnosed Everything
There's always technically a possibility that she regretted her actions and then made the accusations but I HIGHLY doubt that's the case here. The woman was found sobbing in the shower, curled up in a ball by her mother the day after the incident and told her mom what happened. I doubt that'd have occurred if she just had a regretful night based on her own actions - not to mention she was apparently highly intoxicated and unable to consent to anything further.
Couple that with the text messages of her telling Player 1 that she had only given him consent and not the others in addition to two videos of her in the hotel room telling the camera that what happened was "okay" and it's looking really f***ing bad. I don't think people that haven't done any wrongdoing feel the need to film a drunk woman saying that she consented after she was more or less trapped in a room with 8 men.
My fear is that the guilty parties are going to get off because they won't be able to be fully proven guilty and that their lawyers will pull some scummy shit, which we've already seen from the McLeod statement trying to sway the public perception by saying that these charges come "more than five and a half years after" the initial complaint to the police.
I don't want Hart to be guilty because of my own personal bias towards being a fan of his for the past 6 years but if he's guilty of what's being accused then I absolutely hope he receives every possible repercussion. This woman's life has been shattered and at this point none of the hockey or fandom bullshit matters. She deserves justice for whatever that's worth.
JojoTheWhale
"You should keep it." -- Striiker
- May 22, 2008
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BringBackHakstol
Registered User
Or when we need more info about someone throwing a wheel chair down the steps
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
Drunk women, amirite?!
BritainStix
Registered User
- Oct 20, 2016
- 6,725
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This is a truly terrible stance to take.
Presumption of guilt by society has killed people and lives have absolutely been ruined. Thats why you shouldnt assume anything until both sides can provide all evidence in legal manner. You are a moderator on this site and know that speculation on this topic has been outright banned because of libel laws and slander.
This thread is already bordering absurd. We certainly know what one side has stated, the other side are protesting their innocence. Are they guilty? No one here knows. You can form whatever opinion you want, you cant make statements of fact based on that opinion. That's why there is a court of law.
If these players are innocent (and for the record I'm not stating they are) then they stand to lose at least 2 years of their careers, their reputation, friends and family members. While carrying around the burden of "just because they weren't jailed doesn't mean they weren't guilty".
People are pretty f***ing quick to come to conclusions when it's not their life on the line.
BringBackHakstol
Registered User
These women need to learn to leave the drinking to the men, whom know how to behave on the sauce
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
So you have done no research, then. Because what they did is well known.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
I don't care.
This kind of ridiculous leeway with the level of information we have is only ever given to people who have assaulted women. Do with that information what you will. Again, nobody was writing this level of dissertation about threats to society over Lehtera's accusations or the cab drivers accusations against Kane. One wonders why.
Giving rapists the benefit of the doubt is very negative. I'm just being positive.
DancingPanther
Foundational Titan
- Jun 19, 2018
- 33,976
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Is it a turn or is it more like El Nino in that we all know it's coming and how shitty it's going to make things, we just don't know when
Kelmitchell2
Registered User
- Aug 30, 2020
- 4,299
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The 4 others are all 1998, but starting to get a horrible feeling about which one it was
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
We don't know what Hart himself did though. That's an important distinction. We know what the group did in a general sense.
We don't know who Player #1 is that invited the other players into the room but had consensual sex with the victim to start. We don't know who Player #2 was that performed a sex act without even speaking to the victim, etc.
Now that doesn't absolve Hart for putting himself in a position like this but we don't yet know the exact thing that he did.
JojoTheWhale
"You should keep it." -- Striiker
- May 22, 2008
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The best way I can describe it is that this thread makes me long for the time I had shingles.
