Toggle sidebar

Carolina 2nd in the Metro Just Downgraded at the Deadline

Carolina literally should've traded for a goalie again. They're not gonna go far with Kochetkov/Anderson at all. Team just desperately lacks that actual killer instinct

Also Stankoven fits that teams philosophy way more than Rantanen, which is weird.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Calicaps
There are very few sure things when it comes to big trades. A player like Rantanen almost never becomes available. I have no doubt The Borg (the committee structure Canes use instead of the typical NHL mostly "siloed" approach) did a cost/ risk/ benefit analysis which factored in the potential long term benefit of Rants as a Cane (could be franchise changing), the odds of extending Rants (given the information they had at the time), the potential benefit for a Cup run, the likely situation with Necas going forward, and the off ramp if things went south. They did the calculation and decided that it was worth a shot to make the trade, knowing it wasn't a given that he'd extend. It didn't hit, but the cost for taking the shot was discounted by the return they got when it became clear it wasn't going to work out. That fits in with the Borg's very public philosophy that they're not afraid to take chances and are willing to accept some Ls as long as they're sufficiently outnumbered by Ws.

I get that many here either don't understand such a philosophy or don't agree with it; some Canes fans feel the same. But the majority of us are not only happy with what the Borg has done to turn the franchise around but very optimistic about how they've got the Canes positioned going forward.

#hatersgonnahate :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: cptjeff, Stupendous Yappi, CostaRica and 3 others
LakeLivin said:
There are very few sure things when it comes to big trades. A player like Rantanen almost never becomes available. I have no doubt The Borg (the committee structure Canes use instead of the typical NHL mostly "siloed" approach) did a cost/ risk/ benefit analysis which factored in the potential long term benefit of Rants as a Cane (could be franchise changing), the odds of extending Rants (given the information they had at the time), the potential benefit for a Cup run, the likely situation with Necas going forward, and the off ramp if things went south. They did the calculation and decided that it was worth a shot to make the trade, knowing it wasn't a given that he'd extend. It didn't hit, but the cost for taking the shot was discounted by the return they got when it became clear it wasn't going to work out. That fits in with the Borg's very public philosophy that they're not afraid to take chances and are willing to accept some Ls as long as they're sufficiently outnumbered by Ws.

I get that many here either don't understand such a philosophy or don't agree with it; some Canes fans feel the same. But the majority of us are not only happy with what the Borg has done to turn the franchise around but very optimistic about how they've got the Canes positioned going forward.

#hatersgonnahate :D
Click to expand...
Why is called The Borg?
 
Rantanen doesn’t really need to be apart of this convo. He didn’t really fit their system and he clearly wasn’t going to sign there. At the end of the day they started with Necas, Drury and a 2nd and they now have Hall, Stankoven, 2 1sts and 2 3rds. That is incredibly good value for that package. Canes fans would’ve been very happy if Necas+ Drury and a 2nd had been traded for that instead of Rantanen originally. However obviously the team is still worse for the rest of this season than what it could’ve been with either Necas and Drury or with Rantanen. We won’t know the full extent yet f the trade tree until we see what those picks turn into or more likely what the majority of them are traded for. Overall im pretty bullish on Carolina’s Future as a legit contender for the next 5 years but this year I don’t see them beating Tampa or Florida in the east but I didn’t see them doing with Necas or Rantanen either.
 
I still don't understand the narrative about the Canes system. Is it the one where Rod expects his players to be responsible? Play hard? Forecheck? Not turning pucks over at the blue line?
Seems like Necas developed very well in that system. The guy was a turnover machine his first few seasons. How about Jarvis? He's thriving and is the farthest thing from a fourth line grinder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blueline Bomber
The S5 said:
I still don't understand the narrative about the Canes system. Is it the one where Rod expects his players to be responsible? Play hard? Forecheck? Not turning pucks over at the blue line?
Seems like Necas developed very well in that system. The guy was a turnover machine his first few seasons. How about Jarvis? He's thriving and is the farthest thing from a fourth line grinder.
Click to expand...
I think it's mostly about limiting minutes which star players don't usually like. It might also be a little bit stifling the creativity of the players.

I think it makes Carolina a strong team, but not an attractive team for star players.
 
  • Like
Reactions: torontoblood
Mr Nogatco said:
Why is called The Borg?
Click to expand...

I don't know for sure as I only became active on HFB after moving over here when the Canes official board was shut down, which was after Dundon put the "committee structure" in place.

But I'm assuming it comes from Star Trek, where the Borg was a race of communalistic cyborgs, thereby kind of referencing the committee structure and the increased investment in Tulsky's analytics (non-human/ cyborg).
 
  • Like
Reactions: hangman013
The S5 said:
I still don't understand the narrative about the Canes system. Is it the one where Rod expects his players to be responsible? Play hard? Forecheck? Not turning pucks over at the blue line?
Seems like Necas developed very well in that system. The guy was a turnover machine his first few seasons. How about Jarvis? He's thriving and is the farthest thing from a fourth line grinder.
Click to expand...

The offensive system, especially on the power play, is very very formulaic. In a nutshell, they dump the puck in, use the first forechecker as a pick so that F2 can retrieve the puck, then ping-pong the puck back and forth between the goal line and half wall. If the defense is aggressive enough to step out and challenge, or sloppy enough to leave a seam through the middle, they’ll try and hit the slot or one-timer very quickly. 90% of the time that is not an option. So the next move is to bump it to the point for a wrist shot through traffic, looking for the tip/rebound.

That all sounds pretty conventional, but they are robotic about it. There is no deking, no behind-the-net option, no slapshots, none of that stuff. It’s dump, pick, retrieve, ping-pong, point pass, chase the rebound. Within that scheme they take a ton of low-percentage shots and win through volume shooting. The analytics support all of this — it’s the reason they win, and the reason shooting dmen in particular have career seasons in Carolina. Think Hamilton, DeAngelo, Skjei, now Gostisbehere.

Rantanen’s issue was that he didn’t want to spend the next 8 years playing small-ball where he’s the ping-pong guy on the half wall who rarely sees that seam pass opportunity. He played that way for a few weeks and decided it wasn’t for him.

LakeLivin said:
But I'm assuming it comes from Star Trek, where the Borg was a race of communalistic cyborgs, thereby kind of referencing the committee structure and the increased investment in Tulsky's analytics (non-human/ cyborg).
Click to expand...

That is correct. It was an in-joke to describe the management team which no longer had a clear cut “guy in charge”.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Surrounded By Ahos, cptjeff, hangman013 and 3 others
tarheelhockey said:
The offensive system, especially on the power play, is very very formulaic. In a nutshell, they dump the puck in, use the first forechecker as a pick so that F2 can retrieve the puck, then ping-pong the puck back and forth between the goal line and half wall. If the defense is aggressive enough to step out and challenge, or sloppy enough to leave a seam through the middle, they’ll try and hit the slot or one-timer very quickly. 90% of the time that is not an option. So the next move is to bump it to the point for a wrist shot through traffic, looking for the tip/rebound.

That all sounds pretty conventional, but they are robotic about it. There is no deking, no behind-the-net option, no slapshots, none of that stuff. It’s dump, pick, retrieve, ping-pong, point pass, chase the rebound. Within that scheme they take a ton of low-percentage shots and win through volume shooting. The analytics support all of this — it’s the reason they win, and the reason shooting dmen in particular have career seasons in Carolina. Think Hamilton, DeAngelo, Skjei, now Gostisbehere.

Rantanen’s issue was that he didn’t want to spend the next 8 years playing small-ball where he’s the ping-pong guy on the half wall who rarely sees that seam pass opportunity. He played that way for a few weeks and decided it wasn’t for him.
Click to expand...
Also once a year all the Canes players have to go on a camping/photography trip with GM Jiri Tlusty, which apparently some players aren't fans of.
 
  • Haha
  • Wow
  • Love
Reactions: Surrounded By Ahos, cptjeff, DaveG and 3 others
tarheelhockey said:
The offensive system, especially on the power play, is very very formulaic. In a nutshell, they dump the puck in, use the first forechecker as a pick so that F2 can retrieve the puck, then ping-pong the puck back and forth between the goal line and half wall. If the defense is aggressive enough to step out and challenge, or sloppy enough to leave a seam through the middle, they’ll try and hit the slot or one-timer very quickly. 90% of the time that is not an option. So the next move is to bump it to the point for a wrist shot through traffic, looking for the tip/rebound.

That all sounds pretty conventional, but they are robotic about it. There is no deking, no behind-the-net option, no slapshots, none of that stuff. It’s dump, pick, retrieve, ping-pong, point pass, chase the rebound. Within that scheme they take a ton of low-percentage shots and win through volume shooting. The analytics support all of this — it’s the reason they win, and the reason shooting dmen in particular have career seasons in Carolina. Think Hamilton, DeAngelo, Skjei, now Gostisbehere.

Rantanen’s issue was that he didn’t want to spend the next 8 years playing small-ball where he’s the ping-pong guy on the half wall who rarely sees that seam pass opportunity. He played that way for a few weeks and decided it wasn’t for him.



That is correct. It was an in-joke to describe the management team which no longer had a clear cut “guy in charge”.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is conventional. Nothing earth shattering with regard to how they run their PP. You could make that observation about every teams PP. I don't think there is a coach in the league that lets players freelance. Even the Oilers, with their elite talent on the PP, run a system. The result may be different, but it isn't because they teach a different system.
Maybe Rants just didn't like the feel of the area or organization. I don't think he came to the conclusion you proposed based on a few weeks of play. He had other reasons, which haven't been revealed.
To this point, he doesn't look that great in Dallas either. Time will tell if he is a pilot or just a passenger.
 
The S5 said:
Yes, it is conventional. Nothing earth shattering with regard to how they run their PP. You could make that observation about every teams PP. I don't think there is a coach in the league that lets players freelance. Even the Oilers, with their elite talent on the PP, run a system. The result may be different, but it isn't because they teach a different system.
Maybe Rants just didn't like the feel of the area or organization. I don't think he came to the conclusion you proposed based on a few weeks of play. He had other reasons, which haven't been revealed.
To this point, he doesn't look that great in Dallas either. Time will tell if he is a pilot or just a passenger.
Click to expand...

I can tell you that it was the system. And I’m not getting that from the media, or from a source where he would have any reason to be “nice” and hide his motives.

Like I said in the prior post, I get that every team runs a system and the Canes’ doesn’t sound unconventional if you read a description or watch one or two games. The difference is the philosophy around discipline, sticking to the same sequencing on every single possession in order to achieve an analytical goal. It’s markedly different than what you see on the Avs or Oilers. We have seen a number of players struggle with it, some of which have been moved along after failing to thrive. And virtually every player on the team suffers a reduction in their stats as a result, other than the PP1 triggerman defensemen. The difference is real and it is the specific reason that Rantanen couldn’t see himself staying past this summer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Surrounded By Ahos and hangman013
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom