Carolina, 2nd in the Metro, just downgraded at the deadline

[Mogo]

They literally did learn from Guentzel which is why this thread exists.

You dont trade for high end UFA's you hope to keep without a deal in place. Example. What Dallas did

 

[Tryamw]

To be fair, Canes management is to blame to have put themselves in this situation in the first place.

Should have traded him faster.

Now they are weaker and their foes in the East almost all got stronger.

Shrug would I have liked more moves yes am I agitated they didn't nope I had no expectations of this season other than a retool year. Some Canes fans seem to have drunk the koolaid.
Next year will be far more interesting. BTW this was also true when we had Rantanen. We still don't have a 2c and have some defensive holes.
No moves today would solve all that. Still could win the metro but I wouldn't put money on it same as day 1.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You dont trade for high end UFA's you hope to keep without a deal in place. Example. What Dallas did

That’s a shallow-minded way to think about it.

Colorado didn’t allow for pre-negotiation of a deal. Understandably so — if the negotiation fails (which it did, in fact) then they’ve alerted the player and almost certainly created a media leak which means a circus for the rest of the season.

So Colorado was smart. They said “here’s what the price is, no talking to the player, take it or leave it.”

Carolina was faced with a dilemma: keep Necas who is the lesser player, at absolute maximum trade value during that window of time, already discontented, and leaving at the end of his contract — and just hope things work themselves out when you get a couple of 2nds at next year’s TDL? Or swing for a 50-goal 100-point star and sell the hell out of your program to try and re-sign him?

They took the swing, and made the hard pitch for an extension. As it turns out, the negotiation failed from the player’s side of the table. Most orgs would have just doubled down and hoped things somehow worked themselves out between now and UFA Day, with a miracle Cup run or a miracle reversal on the contract.

Tulsky (or if rumor is accurate, Dundon) said **** that, get some value for him. So they went back to market and got two 1sts and a young roster player — which is a LOT more than Necas would have pulled at next year’s TDL.

So they’ve effectively traded Necas with an extra year on his contract for a non-TDL return. In other words, a straight up hockey trade.

Was this the way they wanted it to play out, of course not. But it’s an example of how a team can take calculated risks on potentially franchise-altering opportunities, and still back their way down to an acceptable outcome as a Plan B/C/D. It’s messy but in the big picture it’s how thoughtful asset management works. You don’t just sit there waiting for perfect opportunities to appear out of nowhere… nor do you go out chasing every wild hare you come across. You wait for a risk that makes sense, and take it decisively. By the nature of how risk works, sometimes it plays out in your favor and sometimes it doesn’t.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

You dont trade for high end UFA's you hope to keep without a deal in place. Example. What Dallas did

And if that team doesn’t allow you to speak to the high end UFA before the trade, what then? Just pass on the chance to acquire him?

 

[Nogatco Rd]

No they're not

Worst takes on HF AINEC

 

[flyfysher]

That’s a shallow-minded way to think about it.

Colorado didn’t allow for pre-negotiation of a deal. Understandably so — if the negotiation fails (which it did, in fact) then they’ve alerted the player and almost certainly created a media leak which means a circus for the rest of the season.

So Colorado was smart. They said “here’s what the price is, no talking to the player, take it or leave it.”

Carolina was faced with a dilemma: keep Necas who is the lesser player, at absolute maximum trade value during that window of time, already discontented, and leaving at the end of his contract — and just hope things work themselves out when you get a couple of 2nds at next year’s TDL? Or swing for a 50-goal 100-point star and sell the hell out of your program to try and re-sign him?

They took the swing, and made the hard pitch for an extension. As it turns out, the negotiation failed from the player’s side of the table. Most orgs would have just doubled down and hoped things somehow worked themselves out between now and UFA Day, with a miracle Cup run or a miracle reversal on the contract.

Tulsky (or if rumor is accurate, Dundon) said **** that, get some value for him. So they went back to market and got two 1sts and a young roster player — which is a LOT more than Necas would have pulled at next year’s TDL.

So they’ve effectively traded Necas with an extra year on his contract for a non-TDL return. In other words, a straight up hockey trade.

Was this the way they wanted it to play out, of course not. But it’s an example of how a team can take calculated risks on potentially franchise-altering opportunities, and still back their way down to an acceptable outcome as a Plan B/C/D. It’s messy but in the big picture it’s how thoughtful asset management works. You don’t just sit there waiting for perfect opportunities to appear out of nowhere… nor do you go out chasing every wild hare you come across. You wait for a risk that makes sense, and take it decisively. By the nature of how risk works, sometimes it plays out in your favor and sometimes it doesn’t.

As an Avs fan, it’s interesting to read takes like yours because when it’s your team’s player then usually you get an unvarnished perspective into a player’s strengths and weaknesses. As such, viewpoints like yours have context that an outsider’s POV doesn’t really have. This is particularly true when you get takes from the fans of a traded players former team. Like the Islander fans posting about Nelson on the Avs forum. They tell it like it is. Here, It goes a level further. Players like Rants unquestionably are elite in their skill set. But is the system employed by the team complementary to that skill set especially vis a vis the cost? It’s just IMO a confluence of events including timing that led to Rants going to the Stars. Don’t blame the Canes for trying to get a breakthrough player. You know, it’s always a question of going for it and that also depends on context. So no, it didn’t work out for the canes but hey, you took your swing. What sucks is that the delay in processing the trade impacted Canes’ cap space and ability to trade.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Imagine they win the Cup and everyone else for the next three years decides they need to downgrade going into the playoffs?

The cup isn't awarded in March, anything is possible.

Teams with big TDL's dont usually go very far in the playoffs. Carolina might be on to something here.

 

[Zalos]

There's a lot of overly pessimistic comments in this thread. Necas was a great player, but he wasn't a superstar. Rantanen did not work out, but the Canes still got a bunch of picks and Stankoven who has the potential to become a player as good as Necas at least.

It could have played out better for Carolina, but the end results are not as bad as people are making it out to be.

 

[Elysian]

The Stankoven takes in here are going to age poorly, IMO. No Stars fan wanted to see him go, but it's the cost of doing business.

 

[Rebels57]

Definitely surprised they didnt flip one of Dallas' 1sts to bring in someone else. Not a good look for Tulsky.

 

[Rebels57]

There's a lot of overly pessimistic comments in this thread. Necas was a great player, but he wasn't a superstar. Rantanen did not work out, but the Canes still got a bunch of picks and Stankoven who has the potential to become a player as good as Necas at least.

It could have played out better for Carolina, but the end results are not as bad as people are making it out to be.

The whole situation does make a team with Cup aspirations worse, which is very odd. Its not like they are rebuilding.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Definitely surprised they didnt flip one of Dallas' 1sts to bring in someone else. Not a good look for Tulsky.

Tulsky has been open that Rantanen’s camp dragged out negotiations with the Stars until the last hour, which eliminated any possibility of flipping the 1sts for a meaningful player.

 

[Stickpucker]

Can you really say you downgrade when the guy you trade has done dick since he's been in town? Rantanen looked like shit in Carolina.

Jesperi Kotkaniemi looked an entire tier above Rantanen in his time here. The guy doesnt possess the character ODawg has in one pinky.

Just wish the man baby would have signed the Dallas deal faster so the Canes could've done more business.

 

[Bruce Granville]

Definitely surprised they didnt flip one of Dallas' 1sts to bring in someone else. Not a good look for Tulsky.

There was no time.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

I dont think they downgraded by much. Stankoven is going to be a very good player, he's already pretty good. I don't see them getting a better offer from any other team than what Dallas offered.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I respect them taking a swing. Once it didn’t work, had to make some lemonade. Ultimately, they need some high-end talent or they’ll just be in the same spin cycle they’ve been in.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Tulsky has been open that Rantanen’s camp dragged out negotiations with the Stars until the last hour, which eliminated any possibility of flipping the 1sts for a meaningful player.

Mikko comes across as a miserable player.

 

[Stickpucker]

They could have bought with the assets acquired, like the other contenders did.

That was the plan but mikko the diva took too long to sign Dallas contact tying up the cap needed for a move that was apparently on the table.

 

[tfwnogf]

I'm not convinced Ranta is as good as his stats were in Colorado. Playing with Mack and Makar inflated him. I don't think Carolina is missing much. We've seen in Vancouver what a sulky diva does to a team. They got rid of him before he became toxic. I'd say that's a win. He's still a great player no doubt and Dallas has the playstyle that fits him more so he's more inclined to give a damn.

 

[Nikishin al Gaib]

That's some Marc Bergevin type of excuse. That's rough.

Yeah but it's reality.

Rantanen dragged his feet signing the contract extension with Dallas, which needed to happen in order for the league to close the trade and because the Canes had very little cap space after the initial Rantanen trade they couldn't do anything else because it would put them over the cap. They had other deals lined up, but those players got traded elsewhere before Rantanen signed and the deal closed.

This is a direct quote from Tulsky yesterday.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Yeah but it's reality.

Rantanen dragged his feet signing the contract extension with Dallas, which needed to happen in order for the league to close the trade and because the Canes had very little cap space after the initial Rantanen trade they couldn't do anything else because it would put them over the cap. They had other deals lined up, but those players got traded elsewhere before Rantanen signed and the deal closed.

This is a direct quote from Tulsky yesterday.

No, The has no say in how a trade can be completeed outside of CBA rules, and having an extension isn't one of those. The reason the trade wasn't complete until an extension is because Dallas wouldn't commit the resources to the trade without an extension. The league had nothing to with it, it was 100% Mikko dragging his feet and holding both teams hostage until the last minute. Which just goes to show how the TDL is not the ideal place for this type of business, not with the impending timeline of 3pm. Too bad for Carolina though, they had to do it and go along with it

 

[Nikishin al Gaib]

No, The has no say in how a trade can be completeed outside of CBA rules, and having an extension isn't one of those. The reason the trade wasn't complete until an extension is because Dallas wouldn't commit the resources to the trade without an extension. The league had nothing to with it, it was 100% Mikko dragging his feet and holding both teams hostage until the last minute. Which just goes to show how the TDL is not the ideal place for this type of business, not with the impending timeline of 3pm. Too bad for Carolina though, they had to do it and go along with it

You are arguing semantics.

The trade wasn't going to close until he signed his contract extension, and without the trade closing the Canes were hamstrung due to the cap. Which is why the Canes were not able to flip those picks for other adds, which is the point my original comment was in reply to.

 

[Oilslick941611]

You are arguing semantics.

The trade wasn't going to close until he signed his contract extension, and without the trade closing the Canes were hamstrung due to the cap. Which is why the Canes were not able to flip those picks for other adds, which is the point my original comment was in reply to.

no its not semantics, the way you posed it suggests the league interfered with the trade.

 

[Nikishin al Gaib]

no its not semantics, the way you posed it suggests the league interfered with the trade.

I was literally listing off the things that needed to happen before the league would deem the trade closed per the CBA and league policy. It's not interference when it's part of the stated process.

 

[qc14]

Today the Canes woke up in basically the same position they’d have been if they had never had Rantanen at all. Say what you will about Dundon, I get that he’s not popular in some circles, but a LOT and I mean a LOT of owners in this league would have sat by and let their GM “stick to his guns” with catastrophic consequences. This was a clear-cut case where someone needed to set things back on the right track.

They didn't though. In terms of winning a cup this year they are clearly in a worse position with Stankoven and Hall than with Necas and Drury. They were in the best position with Rantanen.

If their goal isn't to win cups, then I don't really know what to tell you except I'm sorry that sucks for fans.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Dallas trade kept them so busy they didn’t really have a lot of time to make another deal. Also….after our rental trades we didn’t have many extra assets until Rants finally happened and I’m glad they didn’t impulse spend those picks.

This team doesn’t have it. Only make moves that last right now.

Maybe if Dundon didn't run a shoestring operation they could've had more guys to run the phones